Best Money Player Alive Today

[jay helfert]

My recollections of the top money players goes like this. Buddy Hall was in a class of his own in this country for about 30 years as a money player and a tournament player. Buddy stayed on the road almost full time from the 70's to the late 90's. He knows the highways of the Eastern USA better than anyone alive, pool player or not. He must have won over 200 tournaments and I'm not talking about weekly events. I'm talking about bar box championships with strong 64 player fields, and big table events full of top players. NO ONE has won as many tournaments as Buddy, and it's not even close.

At the same time, Buddy was the most feared money player in America, bar none. Only a handful of players would even dare to play him even, guys like Greg Stevens, Denny Searcy and Billy Johnson. I think Buddy gave Searcy the eight one time in Vegas. And he could play all games, One Pocket, Banks and 9-Ball. He was not a Straight Pool player, mostly because no one gambled at 14.1. Buddy simply wiped up the competition everywhere he went for over 20 years.

Then along came Parica in the mid 80's. He became THE MAN for the next 15 years at least. He took on all comers and robbed them all, with the exception of one man, Buddy Hall. I don't know if they have ever gambled. I don't think so. Call it mutual respect or whatever. I KNOW that Parica was the most feared money player in America until a few years ago, and even at his age, not many players ask him to play.

These are the two best that I remember during the last 40 years in America. James is a great player but he wouldn't have dared tangle with Buddy 15 years ago or Jose 10 years ago. Not a chance! Only CJ at his peak could have gambled with these two, and even he didn't go looking for Buddy or Parica, only Efren. The players know who is best and who to avoid. Trust me on that one.

Efren made his legend on his incredible One Pocket skills. At 9-Ball he was beatable, and Nick Varner waxed him good in Manila. Nick was another great gambler who played almost everyone around for decades. He had (and still has) miles of heart, but he knew where to draw the line too. And he did draw the line with Buddy and Parica. Tournaments are one thing, but like Island Drive said, gambling is another animal.

Today if they put all the top players in a room for 30 days, I'd pick Alex to get out with the money. He has too much heart for Yang or anyone else to fade. It's hard to pick between Yang, Alex and Dennis in one long session. Let's just say they may be the three best right now. Yang plays precision pool, making one perfect shot after another. Dennis has the best cue ball control since Efren at his peak. But Alex can come with the big shot when necessary, when all the money is on the line. That can dishearten any opponent, just as it did to Shane a year ago.

Shane has all the tools to be the next Buddy Hall, but he must continue to improve in several areas of his game. He does not play as precisely and error free as Yang, or the tight position of Dennis. Shane has the biggest break and can string racks, and he can come with the big shot when required. Maybe what's missing is Buddy's consistency. Of all the greatest players of the last 40 years, Buddy was the most consistently good, with Nick second. Sigel was the same, good every day in every match. These guys never had off days or off matches for that matter. You simply had to play very, very good to beat them, and hope they missed a shot or two.

Sigel was also a great pool player, but when it came to gambling, he took a back seat to Buddy and Nick. As great as he was, several players got the best of him over the years including Keith. Johnny must be mentioned as should Francisco. Johnny was probably the second best money player in America during Parica's reign. He was avoided also for the most part, and when he played he was giving up weight. Francisco took on all comers when he was here, and still does in the Philippines. Mark Tadd was another great player for a short period of time, willing to gamble with anyone not named Buddy or Jose. But he burned out too fast to really find out how good he was. Mark was like a comet blazing across the pool sky.

So you can see, that over a long period of time, there have been a relatively small handful of men considered the best, maybe less than ten. Like I said in another post, Wu may be the best pool player on the planet today, but I think he is really focused on winning tournaments, which is tough enough in Asia.

 

[SK Custom Cues]

Call it as I see it

No disrespect....But are you surprized that a young gun with old vet seasoning "destroyed" Nick Varner? C'mon, no doubt Nick was a champion in his day and is a highly respected player, but he isn't the Nick of old.

I just think it's kinda out of line to base Gabe's one hole game on a match with Nick Varner.

Live long and play strong,
-Chicagomike

I am not sure why you think I was surprised about Gabe's performance, I have known him personally for quite some time. I actually expected him to play well. I have watched Gabe grow over the years from a good player to a great player. I am certainly aware of Nick, who he is, and where he's been as well.

I watched that match and witnessed the complete dominance Gabe put on. He played an absolutely flawless match. Anyone who saw it would agree with me. I meant no disrespect towards Nick, I actually consider him to be one of the all time favorites in my book. I am not basing Gabe's game on that match alone, I think you misunderstood my direction. The intent was in reference to the performance at the last tournament Gabe played in. Nick Varner just happened to be the second to the last man standing in the way.

I can see how you would take my comment as out of line, but you apparently misread me. I'm not trying to be out of line, I'm just trying to call it like I see it.

 

[SK Custom Cues]

I'm askin Buddy tomorrow

My recollections of the top money players goes like this. Buddy Hall was in a class of his own in this country for about 30 years as a money player and a tournament player. Buddy stayed on the road almost full time from the 70's to the late 90's. He knows the highways of the Eastern USA better than anyone alive, pool player or not. He must have won over 200 tournaments and I'm not talking about weekly events. I'm talking about bar box championships with strong 64 player fields, and big table events full of top players. NO ONE has won as many tournaments as Buddy, and it's not even close.

At the same time, Buddy was the most feared money player in America, bar none. Only a handful of players would even dare to play him even, guys like Greg Stevens, Denny Searcy and Billy Johnson. I think Buddy gave Searcy the eight one time in Vegas. And he could play all games, One Pocket, Banks and 9-Ball. He was not a Straight Pool player, mostly because no one gambled at 14.1. Buddy simply wiped up the competition everywhere he went for over 20 years.

Then along came Parica in the mid 80's. He became THE MAN for the next 15 years at least. He took on all comers and robbed them all, with the exception of one man, Buddy Hall. I don't know if they have ever gambled. I don't think so. Call it mutual respect or whatever. I KNOW that Parica was the most feared money player in America until a few years ago, and even at his age, not many players ask him to play.

These are the two best that I remember during the last 40 years in America. James is a great player but he wouldn't have dared tangle with Buddy 15 years ago or Jose 10 years ago. Not a chance! Only CJ at his peak could have gambled with these two, and even he didn't go looking for Buddy or Parica, only Efren. The players know who is best and who to avoid. Trust me on that one.

Efren made his legend on his incredible One Pocket skills. At 9-Ball he was beatable, and Nick Varner waxed him good in Manila. Nick was another great gambler who played almost everyone around for decades. He had (and still has) miles of heart, but he knew where to draw the line too. And he did draw the line with Buddy and Parica. Tournaments are one thing, but like Island Drive said, gambling is another animal.

Today if they put all the top players in a room for 30 days, I'd pick Alex to get out with the money. He has too much heart for Yang or anyone else to fade. It's hard to pick between Yang, Alex and Dennis in one long session. Let's just say they may be the three best right now. Yang plays precision pool, making one perfect shot after another. Dennis has the best cue ball control since Efren at his peak. But Alex can come with the big shot when necessary when all the money is on the line. That can dishearten any opponent, just as it did to Shane a year ago.

Shane has all the tools to be the next Buddy Hall, but he must continue to improve in several areas of his game. He does not play as precisely as Yang, or the tight position of Dennis. He has the biggest break and can string racks, and he can come with the big shot when required. Maybe what's missing is Buddy's consistency. Of all the greatest players of the last 40 years, Buddy was the most consistently good, with Nick second. These guys never had off days or off matches for that matter. You simply had to play very, very good to beat them, and hope they missed a shot or two.

Sigel was also a great pool player, but when it came to gambling, he took a back seat to Buddy and Nick. As great as he was, several players got the best of him over the years including Keith. Johnny must be mentioned as should Francisco. Johnny was probably the second best money player in America during Parica's reign. He was avoided also for the most part, and when he played he was giving up weight. Francisco took on all comers when he was here, and still does in the Philippines. Mark Tadd was another great player for a short period of time, willing to gamble with anyone not named Buddy or Jose. But he burned out too fast to really find out how good he was. Mark was like a comet blazing across the pool sky.

So you can see, that over a long period of time, there have been a relatively small handful of men considered the best, maybe less than ten. Like I said in another post, Wu may be the best pool player on the planet today, but I think he is really focused on winning tournaments, which is tough enough in Asia.

I have not been alive long enough to know what you know Jay, that's why I'm gonna sit down with Buddy, tomorrow and see what he's got to say.

 

[jay helfert]

I have not been alive long enough to know what you know Jay, that's why I'm gonna sit down with Buddy, tomorrow and see what he's got to say.

You can print my comments and show it to him. See what he has to say then. Oh and tell him I said Hi.

 

[Danktrees]

$40,000 for first place at the US Open is a healthy chunk of change and if the Filipinos and Japanese can come to compete for it then so can the Taiwanese.

yes it is, but guinness pays that much as well so there is no reason for them to come all the way here. alex showed that this year. also theres less competition altho it can be argued that the competition is tougher since u cant lose and its the top players that u have to beat. no 1st round byes or 2 rounds of easier matches to warm up. once u show up u have to play ur best or u lose.

for the filipinos and japanese players that do come, they come if there is not another tourny going on. we saw the decision that both orcullo and alex took and very few of the japanese players actually come over. the ones that do seem to light it up but 40 grand might not seem like a big enough purse for them to come. after taxes its like 30-33k then hotel, flight, food etc. probably gets to 6-7k which puts u at 23-27k profit when its all said and done. and yes thats still a large amount of money but its only if u win. anything less than 1st or 2nd and u'd barely make any money if at all. so the prize is not conducive to attracting foreign players. there are a lot that do come because they want the title, alcano and bustamante come to mind but if we're talking strictly from a money standpoint, it makes very little sense for them to come here when there are tournaments that will net them more money where they are.

 

[JB Cases]

yes it is, but guinness pays that much as well so there is no reason for them to come all the way here. alex showed that this year. also theres less competition altho it can be argued that the competition is tougher since u cant lose and its the top players that u have to beat. no 1st round byes or 2 rounds of easier matches to warm up. once u show up u have to play ur best or u lose.

for the filipinos and japanese players that do come, they come if there is not another tourny going on. we saw the decision that both orcullo and alex took and very few of the japanese players actually come over. the ones that do seem to light it up but 40 grand might not seem like a big enough purse for them to come. after taxes its like 30-33k then hotel, flight, food etc. probably gets to 6-7k which puts u at 23-27k profit when its all said and done. and yes thats still a large amount of money but its only if u win. anything less than 1st or 2nd and u'd barely make any money if at all. so the prize is not conducive to attracting foreign players. there are a lot that do come because they want the title, alcano and bustamante come to mind but if we're talking strictly from a money standpoint, it makes very little sense for them to come here when there are tournaments that will net them more money where they are.

The Guiness Tour doesn't have any $40,000 first place prize monies. I think Alex was pretty obligated to be there for the tour finals given all the drama surrounding his participation on that tour. I am sure that the Lion would have loved another shot at the US Open crown instead of facing all the killers on the Guiness Tour for less money.

No matter how you break it down the fact is that the Taiwanese cannot be said to be the best on the planet when they won't come to where the best congregate and PROVE it. They don't go to the DCC, they don't go to the US Open, or any other tournaments on US soil. The Filipinos do. And they prove how good they are by constantly finishing high in all the tournaments they play in.

When you stay close to home then you can't really say you are the best in the world. That's like assuming Jason Kirkwood is the best player in America because he dominates everyone in Wisconsin.

Who won the Japan Open? Mika Immonen did. Who won the World Ten Ball? Darren Appleton? Who won the World Pool Masters doubles thing? Shane and Rodney did. The reigning 9 Ball World Champion is british. The reigning US Open champion is Finnish. The two previous champions were from the USA.

Yes I know that this thread is about who are the best money players. Well until a "money" player gets out on the road matches up with any and every challenger then they don't get that title. Not from me they don't. Because otherwise it's just speculation based on two planets who are in different orbits never to come together.

Alex Pagulayan goes everywhere and plays everyone. Someone please tell me if Alex has ever declined to play an even match with any other breathing human for any other reason than friendship?

I have been to Taiwan and I regularly play with second tier Taiwanese pros here in Xiamen. (Xiamen is like the gateway to China for Taiwanese pool players - we have 30 rooms here and plenty of excellent Taiwanese players.) I can tell you that these guys play great but they are no better than the really good shortstops in the USA.

The fact is that if they tried to come to the USA and gamble then they would find out very quickly what it's like when you get away from home and conditions aren't perfect. Everyone is a monster on their home turf.

Does anyone here honestly think that there is a Tawanese player alive who knows MORE about pool than Rodney Morris? I doubt it. Now they may be able to execute better than Rodney right now but not always.

Johnny Archer won five World Championships. What Taiwanese pro has done that? Anyway, this is all academic.

The Best MONEY player living has either United States or Filipino citizenship in my opinion.

And I bet that the best BIG money player is an American. However debates like this will NEVER be settled but they sure are fun.

 

[bandido]

i think that until we americans start playing each other races to say 15 for 100 everyday all day everytime we are in the same room together we are not going to be the sharpest we can be.
we live far apart not all in one spot like manilla. also we
always seem to be trying to play for 20,000.
which is because to get together would cost money and its expensive to live here.
the pinoys have played more money matches in one month than me or any other american plays in 2 years.
believe me if the americans all dropped their lives and huddled up in one town for a year and played money matches nonstop to stay in dead punch .
they would be no fun to tangle with.
matter of a fact the top americans are brutal to beat now and they treat pool myself included like a side hobby.
i dont blame them its because it pays so little compared what costs to live here.
if i lived in phillipines with what i make playing pool i too would think pool is the greatest thing ever and play nonstop and i would make a nice living.
anyway im seriously considering selling everything i own moving to manilla and just playing pool. no golf ,dirt bike ,house ,2000 nut to live ,action everynight etc and see what i can do in the sport.
with the shape this countries in im starting to think it might be the way to go.

I, and I'm sure that the rest of the BMPAP crew, will be more than happy to help get you going here when you do decide to come on an extended stay. I was with Mika, Rodney, Thorsten and Raj last night and they all feel right at home here. Mika and I even discussed his future desire to retire here. And with the NBL soon to unfold Pro Pool will be more than hopping here and players will have income to give more of them a decent living. The 2nd 3-months season will most likely have foreign players or teams composed of all foreign players but at this point is still in discussion.

A lot of things Pro Pool will start here and Europe, oh and USA since Rodney is American, so watch out world.

To stay on topic, Alex is. You folks may not be hearing much about Alex lately becase he went back to school to learn more about computers and he also went to business with one of his sponsors. I find that outstanding! Who can be the best player to sponsor but the one who really studies the product, beleive in it and even invests in it. That's how the future Pros should be.

 

[gcgaryyoyo]

Does anyone know if Chia Ching Wu gambles?

He does. You could probably find some reports about him playing some Filipinos during the World 10 Ball. I really like Wu's game and if he continues to improve I honestly believe he's going to be THE BEST in the world. Reasons? Just look at what this 19-year-old boy has already accomplished.

To JB, I think you're right in that no one can say they're the best until they come out of their home and play...that's a problem Taiwanese players have. At the same time though, it's not fair to accuse them of not playing in the States when all the Filipinos do, because Filipinos do have real sponsorships ie. agents and stuff, which we do not see at all in Taiwan's pool business. Possibly the only one who's ever accomplished something big here is Fong Pong Chao, who won three Challenge of Champions titles in the States.

 

[jayburger]

keith i think youre exactly right. no offense intended donny but in the gambling world you are known as a good player"rack mechanic" who plays rack your own in your hometown only etc..etc...etc... ive seen you play several times and you do play good but james plays all games and will always be more highly regarded even if you did beat him a set. if you would play an all around (1 pocket, 10 ball, 8 ball or banks) i will stake james for 5000 or 10000 with a neutral racker and ref and give you odds on the money. now post up and lets see who has the most heart as was the title of this thread.

 

[SK Custom Cues]

That's what I'm talking about

keith i think youre exactly right. no offense intended donny but in the gambling world you are known as a good player"rack mechanic" who plays rack your own in your hometown only etc..etc...etc... ive seen you play several times and you do play good but james plays all games and will always be more highly regarded even if you did beat him a set. if you would play an all around (1 pocket, 10 ball, 8 ball or banks) i will stake james for 5000 or 10000 with a neutral racker and ref and give you odds on the money. now post up and lets see who has the most heart as was the title of this thread.

This is exactly what I meant. Down here in the south, us okies know our pool, and apparently, so does this individual. I think we may even see something spark out of this... thread.

 

[ironman]

If he were still alive...Louis Roberts would have probably rolled right on over to the Phillipines, walked right in their lair of hustlers then stated, "Lions and Tigers and Bears, OH MY! Boys, this whole island's got action!"

It's unfortunate that the American pool scene is without characters such as the late Louis Roberts, may he rest in peace.

There is no dominant gambler in the current world of pool so comparisons are worthless in my opinion, but please show me ANYONE with a better winning percentage than Buddy Hall in his prime and I'll stand corrected for sure! His game has faultered somewhat, but that man took 'em ALL on for year after year and I don't recall hearing about many losses that he booked either.

Buddy did it the old fashioned way too. He didn't woof a whole lot, he just shot em down.

 

[ironman]

I would think the best money player would NOT be the best player, great gamblers are in their own league, just like great players.

A whole lot of truth in this statement.

 

[ironman]

The guy that lost all the millions back then at the Rack was named Rosie.

Just hang around in Detroit for a little while and you will hear all kinds of stories about the guy. I think he was called the airplane guy. Supposedly blew around 50 million in about a year or two.

June Hager of San Antonio suposedly beat him out of like $250000 while John Drew Jr was asleep in a stroller.

 

[ironman]

My recollections of the top money players goes like this. Buddy Hall was in a class of his own in this country for about 30 years as a money player and a tournament player. Buddy stayed on the road almost full time from the 70's to the late 90's. He knows the highways of the Eastern USA better than anyone alive, pool player or not. He must have won over 200 tournaments and I'm not talking about weekly events. I'm talking about bar box championships with strong 64 player fields, and big table events full of top players. NO ONE has won as many tournaments as Buddy, and it's not even close.

At the same time, Buddy was the most feared money player in America, bar none. Only a handful of players would even dare to play him even, guys like Greg Stevens, Denny Searcy and Billy Johnson. I think Buddy gave Searcy the eight one time in Vegas. And he could play all games, One Pocket, Banks and 9-Ball. He was not a Straight Pool player, mostly because no one gambled at 14.1. Buddy simply wiped up the competition everywhere he went for over 20 years.

Then along came Parica in the mid 80's. He became THE MAN for the next 15 years at least. He took on all comers and robbed them all, with the exception of one man, Buddy Hall. I don't know if they have ever gambled. I don't think so. Call it mutual respect or whatever. I KNOW that Parica was the most feared money player in America until a few years ago, and even at his age, not many players ask him to play.

These are the two best that I remember during the last 40 years in America. James is a great player but he wouldn't have dared tangle with Buddy 15 years ago or Jose 10 years ago. Not a chance! Only CJ at his peak could have gambled with these two, and even he didn't go looking for Buddy or Parica, only Efren. The players know who is best and who to avoid. Trust me on that one.

Efren made his legend on his incredible One Pocket skills. At 9-Ball he was beatable, and Nick Varner waxed him good in Manila. Nick was another great gambler who played almost everyone around for decades. He had (and still has) miles of heart, but he knew where to draw the line too. And he did draw the line with Buddy and Parica. Tournaments are one thing, but like Island Drive said, gambling is another animal.

Today if they put all the top players in a room for 30 days, I'd pick Alex to get out with the money. He has too much heart for Yang or anyone else to fade. It's hard to pick between Yang, Alex and Dennis in one long session. Let's just say they may be the three best right now. Yang plays precision pool, making one perfect shot after another. Dennis has the best cue ball control since Efren at his peak. But Alex can come with the big shot when necessary, when all the money is on the line. That can dishearten any opponent, just as it did to Shane a year ago.

Shane has all the tools to be the next Buddy Hall, but he must continue to improve in several areas of his game. He does not play as precisely and error free as Yang, or the tight position of Dennis. Shane has the biggest break and can string racks, and he can come with the big shot when required. Maybe what's missing is Buddy's consistency. Of all the greatest players of the last 40 years, Buddy was the most consistently good, with Nick second. Sigel was the same, good every day in every match. These guys never had off days or off matches for that matter. You simply had to play very, very good to beat them, and hope they missed a shot or two.

Sigel was also a great pool player, but when it came to gambling, he took a back seat to Buddy and Nick. As great as he was, several players got the best of him over the years including Keith. Johnny must be mentioned as should Francisco. Johnny was probably the second best money player in America during Parica's reign. He was avoided also for the most part, and when he played he was giving up weight. Francisco took on all comers when he was here, and still does in the Philippines. Mark Tadd was another great player for a short period of time, willing to gamble with anyone not named Buddy or Jose. But he burned out too fast to really find out how good he was. Mark was like a comet blazing across the pool sky.

So you can see, that over a long period of time, there have been a relatively small handful of men considered the best, maybe less than ten. Like I said in another post, Wu may be the best pool player on the planet today, but I think he is really focused on winning tournaments, which is tough enough in Asia.

Great post and pretty accurate from where I sit.

I came along a little later than you, but not much. I've stated this many times, but I was in Shreveport at Guys n Dolls when Louie was in his hayday. Louie walkde in like he was on top of the world and couldn't believe Buddy was going to give him the call 7.

I sat there and watche everu single game and every single shot. Buddy played like a friggin machine. Louie was so frustrated at the end that he was standing in a corner and talking to himself.

Buddy won 3 straight 7 ahead sets. It was a battle as Louie was playing well too, but just couldn't hang with Buddy at that time. Louie stayed around Shreveport for several months trying to beat Buddy, but, it never happened.

It is just beyond mt ability to express how Buddy played. Everything just seemed flawless. Like I said, it was the most impressive thing I have seen in almost 40 years of this game.

 

[JAM]

The guy that lost all the millions back then at the Rack was named Rosie.

That is who Keith McCready played in Las Vegas. They played several match-ups, singles, partners, et cetera. And when it was all said and done, Rosie lost 360,000 clams. He was one heck of a gambler. That's for sure; Rosie, that is. :smile:

 

[chicagomike]

I am not sure why you think I was surprised about Gabe's performance, I have known him personally for quite some time. I actually expected him to play well. I have watched Gabe grow over the years from a good player to a great player. I am certainly aware of Nick, who he is, and where he's been as well.

I watched that match and witnessed the complete dominance Gabe put on. He played an absolutely flawless match. Anyone who saw it would agree with me. I meant no disrespect towards Nick, I actually consider him to be one of the all time favorites in my book. I am not basing Gabe's game on that match alone, I think you misunderstood my direction. The intent was in reference to the performance at the last tournament Gabe played in. Nick Varner just happened to be the second to the last man standing in the way.

I can see how you would take my comment as out of line, but you apparently misread me. I'm not trying to be out of line, I'm just trying to call it like I see it.

Thanks for clarifying.

I just got a bad vibe when I origionally read the post. I have a few Gabe Owen One Pocket matches I've seen and he truely is a great player. I wish him and Nick the best.

Live long and play strong,
-Chicagomike

 

[nucues]

Just hang around in Detroit for a little while and you will hear all kinds of stories about the guy. I think he was called the airplane guy. Supposedly blew around 50 million in about a year or two.

June Hager of San Antonio suposedly beat him out of like $250000 while John Drew Jr was asleep in a stroller.

Rosie was a pilot. I was told he made his money flying for the CIA.They said watch the movie Air America and thats Rosies story.Paul Brienza told he was playing Rosie once at the old Cutopia in Vegas. Paul has him stuck 15,000.Then in walks two real inimidating guys in suits. They look at Rosie tell him to get his stuff that it's time to go to work.Then they ask him how much he's stuck and make Paul give the money back.

 

[jay helfert]

Rosie was a pilot. I was told he made his money flying for the CIA.They said watch the movie Air America and thats Rosies story.Paul Brienza told he was playing Rosie once at the old Cutopia in Vegas. Paul has him stuck 15,000.Then in walks two real inimidating guys in suits. They look at Rosie tell him to get his stuff that it's time to go to work.Then they ask him how much he's stuck and make Paul give the money back.

Rosie owned the largest charter jet company in the USA. That's where he made his millions. He was originally based out of Medford, Oregon. He liked to play pool and bet high. Pool players started hunting him down in the early 70's. They would stop at my room in Bakersfield on the way up to Medford. I heard about guys winning twenty and thirty thousand dollar scores back then from Rosie. He just bet higher the older (and richer) he got.

 

[Danktrees]

The Guiness Tour doesn't have any $40,000 first place prize monies. I think Alex was pretty obligated to be there for the tour finals given all the drama surrounding his participation on that tour. I am sure that the Lion would have loved another shot at the US Open crown instead of facing all the killers on the Guiness Tour for less money.

the final leg of it does. the earlier events dont but that doesnt matter since its not like the us open happens every few months. so if u're talking about a 1 time payout then the final leg pays around 40k to the winner. he faced everyone there for a little bit less...what was it? 4k? but considering u do not have to play as many matches it's a fair trade off.

No matter how you break it down the fact is that the Taiwanese cannot be said to be the best on the planet when they won't come to where the best congregate and PROVE it. They don't go to the DCC, they don't go to the US Open, or any other tournaments on US soil. The Filipinos do. And they prove how good they are by constantly finishing high in all the tournaments they play in.

just cuz they dont go to the us doesnt mean they havent proven it. as the general concensus has shown, the filipinos are the best and toughest group to beat. the taiwanese guys match up with them enough times so they have already proven that they'll go and match up with the best players if its within reasonable distance. whether they do it on us soil or not is irrelevant.

When you stay close to home then you can't really say you are the best in the world. That's like assuming Jason Kirkwood is the best player in America because he dominates everyone in Wisconsin.

thats different, cuz regardless of where they are, they still play the best players in the world. maybe not in the us but in other tournaments. also the same can be said about american players then. cuz i dont see any of them going to taiwan to face yang etc. so how can someone like svb be considered one of the best as well?

Who won the Japan Open? Mika Immonen did. Who won the World Ten Ball? Darren Appleton? Who won the World Pool Masters doubles thing? Shane and Rodney did. The reigning 9 Ball World Champion is british. The reigning US Open champion is Finnish. The two previous champions were from the USA.

i dont know what this has to do with anything as they're tournaments but if u pick a year where they didnt win anything to back ur point up then its a bit flawed. cuz i dont see u bringing up the years where chao won wpc's, icoc's etc. or when wu won both 8 ball and 9 ball in the same year. cuz unless i'm mistaken, i have yet to see an american player do that. and the world pool masters doubles is completely irrelevant to this. unless u're gambling in teams of 2 i dont see what that tournament's results has to do with anything. heck team china won last year. i'm chinese and even i found that surprising. and bringing up the us open doesnt prove anything either since u said it yourself, they dont even play in the us open so u cant use that as a title to show that they arent as good. thats like me saying svb isnt as good as these guys cuz he hasnt won anything on the guinness tour...makes no sense. as for 10 ball, wu was second so its not like they got butchered at the 10 ball championships. and in a short race any top level player can beat any other top level player so if wu came second then thats close enough. on any given day he could beat appleton in a race like that just like appleton can beat him.

Yes I know that this thread is about who are the best money players. Well until a "money" player gets out on the road matches up with any and every challenger then they don't get that title. Not from me they don't. Because otherwise it's just speculation based on two planets who are in different orbits never to come together.

Alex Pagulayan goes everywhere and plays everyone. Someone please tell me if Alex has ever declined to play an even match with any other breathing human for any other reason than friendship?

fair enough but its not like alex wins all of his matches so even tho he does match up with everyone, he still loses enough times. he'd be the one thats most willing to match up but if u're talking about the best money player then it would have to be like jay said, someone who is doing what buddy hall did would be the best. cuz matching up doesnt mean as much if u dont win as much as he did.

I have been to Taiwan and I regularly play with second tier Taiwanese pros here in Xiamen. (Xiamen is like the gateway to China for Taiwanese pool players - we have 30 rooms here and plenty of excellent Taiwanese players.) I can tell you that these guys play great but they are no better than the really good shortstops in the USA.

and thats why we're not talking about the second tier. to say the first tier isnt as good as the players from other countries because their second tier isnt overwhelmingly stronger than those in other countries makes no sense. cuz if that reasoning is applied, then if they're no better than some of the second tier us players then that would put their first tier players in the same league as the best us players. but then u go on to say that they're not...

The fact is that if they tried to come to the USA and gamble then they would find out very quickly what it's like when you get away from home and conditions aren't perfect.

thats not a fact lol it's an assumption, u're just assuming they'll lose. since u bring up tournament results, go look at kuo's results. it doesnt matter where the wpc is hosted, look at what he does year after year and tell me hes not one of the strongest, if not the strongest, player in the field.

Does anyone here honestly think that there is a Tawanese player alive who knows MORE about pool than Rodney Morris? I doubt it. Now they may be able to execute better than Rodney right now but not always.

what does this have to do with anything. u can know a lot and not be the best.

Johnny Archer won five World Championships. What Taiwanese pro has done that? Anyway, this is all academic.

which 5 are u counting? i see 3. and im pretty sure wu will beat 5.

The Best MONEY player living has either United States or Filipino citizenship in my opinion.

And I bet that the best BIG money player is an American. However debates like this will NEVER be settled but they sure are fun.

u say the taiwanese cant be the best cuz they dont come over here but i dont see any americans going over there either so how can u consider them the best?


either way as a group the filipinos are the best no doubt. but if u're talking about 1 specific player then there are a few taiwanese players that are as good as anyone when it comes to playing for money.

 

[dabarbr]

Rosie owned the largest charter jet company in the USA. That's where he made his millions. He was originally based out of Medford, Oregon. He liked to play pool and bet high. Pool players started hunting him down in the early 70's. They would stop at my room in Bakersfield on the way up to Medford. I heard about guys winning twenty and thirty thousand dollar scores back then from Rosie. He just bet higher the older (and richer) he got.

I made a couple of trips to Medford to play him but both time I missed him. They told me that when he was in town he really threw a party on the pool tables. I think his name was Rosenthal or Rosenblum or something like that.