Better to practice on a diamond??
- Thread starter bbb
- Start date
I would prefer to practice on a tougher table.
IMHO, a Diamond is tougher. The pockets are cut differently on a Diamond, so your shots have to be truer or they will jaw. You can't "cheat the pocket" as much as you can on a Gold Crown.
When I had a home table, it was an Olhausen with 4.25" pockets. It played tougher than a Gold Crown.
Just my 2 cents...
IMHO, a Diamond is tougher. The pockets are cut differently on a Diamond, so your shots have to be truer or they will jaw. You can't "cheat the pocket" as much as you can on a Gold Crown.
When I had a home table, it was an Olhausen with 4.25" pockets. It played tougher than a Gold Crown.
Just my 2 cents...
Pockets can be fixed to whatever you like. The GC3 I practice on at the hall has 4" pockets. The place is closing and someone else already called dibs on it. I'm getting the main table that has 4 1/8" pockets for my home table. A couple weeks ago I was at a different hall that had full size pockets and it was a total joke. That table can make you feel like a pro. Either table will be fine but have the subrails built up rather than the pockets shimmed. They play much better that way because shims deaden the ball and cause the OB to fall into the pocket easier than with the built up subrails.
I agree 100% with Lance. I play on Iron Willie's tough Diamond Pro-Am with my one pocket player partner on Monday nights, and it keeps you honest. Like Lance mentions, you learn how NOT to use the rails as "bowling alley gutterguards" (i.e. glancing off of the nearest cushion in the direction of the pocket) when playing on a tough Diamond. You have to aim and execute to hit the pocket precisely.
It works, for when you get on a standard-equipped table, you find it a lot easier, and sloppily-hit shots -- i.e. "bowling alley gutterguard" (glancing off the cushion on the way down a rail to the pocket), where you flinch and say to yourself, "uh-oh, I think I missed that one" as the object ball is traveling to the pocket -- actually ends up pocketing on that table. Playing on a tough Diamond sets higher execution expectations in your mind, which is a good thing.
An interesting sidenote is that snooker players play to the opposite side of the pocket than pool players -- i.e. away from the rail that's in the direction of the shot. And the reasoning is the same -- you can't "gutterguard" a shot on a snooker table. It absolutely will NOT go in with those rounded pocket knuckles if you glance the closest adjoining rail on the way in. Rather, you want any error to be to the far side of the pocket, and you hit the shot gently to give the ball the maximum potential to wobble in.
-Sean
My home gold crown is just over 4" but there is a caveat to that. No matter what the pocket size the table has to play fair. You see some tables with tight pockets where you can't keep a ball in the pocket when shot down the rail because of the pocket cut. That is no good a well hit ball should go in on even the tightest table. The real trick is, always practicing with the maximum accuracy regardless how easy the table is. But being human though we will tend to get sloppy on an easy table that is just how it is. So all things being equal a tight properly set up table is preferred for practice.
That is not always the case though at the pool room matching up. If you are giving weight to a weaker player you are usually best on a loose table. The reason being, the loose table may help them a bit but it turns you into a world beater. The fact it is, the outcome will mostly be the same either way but the loose table gives you so much advantage you will run right over them. You will probably be able to give them even more weight keeping them in the game longer before they run to the rack. Playing an equal player you are best on a tough table that will challenge both players.
practice on the table you will be playing on...
Every table plays different. Your best bet is to practice on the table you'll be playing on. If you can practice on the EXACT table you'll be playing on, it's the best, if you can't, practice on the closest thing to it.
You have to play differently on a diamond than on a gold crown, it's not necessarily harder, you just play differently. Besides, gold crowns can be setup sooo much differently from one to the next, you won't know how one is gonna play. If it's shimmed it will play differently than if it's rail beds are extended. If the facing angles are different a looser table can play tougher than a tighter table.
You've got deeper shelves on a diamond and that requires different shot selection...
I may shoot a shot that's closer to a rail into opposite corners depending on whether I'm playing on a diamond or a gold crown. The deeper shelves on a diamond mean that the tighter the angle in relation to the rail, the more liekly the ball is to hang, so I may shoot it into the opposite corner where the angle in relation to the pocket gives it less chance of rebounding off the facings.
If you absolutely HAVE to choose, then practice on the table you are most likely to play on most often, but become aware of the various conditions so you can make the choices like the above mentioned, to give yourself the best chances for success...
Jaden
Every table plays different. Your best bet is to practice on the table you'll be playing on. If you can practice on the EXACT table you'll be playing on, it's the best, if you can't, practice on the closest thing to it.
You have to play differently on a diamond than on a gold crown, it's not necessarily harder, you just play differently. Besides, gold crowns can be setup sooo much differently from one to the next, you won't know how one is gonna play. If it's shimmed it will play differently than if it's rail beds are extended. If the facing angles are different a looser table can play tougher than a tighter table.
You've got deeper shelves on a diamond and that requires different shot selection...
I may shoot a shot that's closer to a rail into opposite corners depending on whether I'm playing on a diamond or a gold crown. The deeper shelves on a diamond mean that the tighter the angle in relation to the rail, the more liekly the ball is to hang, so I may shoot it into the opposite corner where the angle in relation to the pocket gives it less chance of rebounding off the facings.
If you absolutely HAVE to choose, then practice on the table you are most likely to play on most often, but become aware of the various conditions so you can make the choices like the above mentioned, to give yourself the best chances for success...
Jaden
I have a 9' Diamond with 4.25" pockets, and I wholeheartedly disagree with you.
My Diamond holds balls hit with a normal speed down the rail better than a Gold Crown - the champion of the trampoline effect. Need I say more?
When I go to any public table the pockets look like bread baskets, so I will sure as hell recommend practicing on a tight Diamond table. It only takes me a few minutes to get used to the Gold Crown's banks, which are great BTW, since I grew up using these rails. So, with the Diamond, you will get the added advantage of practicing with those funky rails, which appear on a lot of small Daimond tables also.
Regards, WW
Whitewolf:
"Need you say more" -- meaning your personal table is indicative of all Diamond tables out there? I disagree. It sounds like the pocket-cut on your Diamond (i.e. perhaps a "parallel cut"?) is more gracious than some of the V-cut pockets you've encountered on various pool halls' Gold Crowns, so you're indicating that this is a native aspect of Gold Crowns. I can assure you it isn't.
You mention a good point about the cushion rubber on the Diamonds, though, and that, IMHO, is a better indicator of why "gutterguarding" a shot down a rail on a Diamond is less likely to go in than on a similar Gold Crown. Reason: everyone knows Diamonds bank short (at least the pre-RKC modified Diamonds with the new rails, that is). You gutterguard a shot down a rail on a Diamond, and that object ball is going to go wide of the pocket -- closer to the knuckle -- via the Diamond's "bank short" behavior. And that in combination with the deeper shelf makes for a missed/bobbled shot.
Humbly, I think it's that your experience is unique. Regardless, I think we are on the same page that Diamonds keep you honest and are closer to tournament specifications. Agree?
-Sean
I must be in the minority here because I was always instructed to aim toward the far side of the pocket. We call the short side down the rail the sucker side. I've never played snooker but I'd like to try it. Plus, overcutting makes the leave for your opponent tougher than undercutting.
The rails on Brunswick tables are the most accurate and are superspeed cushions! They produce a much narrower window for ball path at all speeds! The study is by the University of Wisconsin 1995! The Diamonds use proprietary cushions that are different and have a much wider window or margin for era for ball path!
If you can play on the Diamond and control the speed variances for cushion response then the Brunswick cushions with a much narrower variance will be a piece of cake to adjust to.
Just My 2 Cents!
Easier going from diamond to brunswick then brunswick to diamond!
KD
If you can play on the Diamond and control the speed variances for cushion response then the Brunswick cushions with a much narrower variance will be a piece of cake to adjust to.
Just My 2 Cents!
Easier going from diamond to brunswick then brunswick to diamond!
KD
More practice time spent on a standard pocket Diamond will equate to a better investment of your practice time by comparison to practicing on a standard pocket GC.
In order to run out in 9-ball or 10-ball on a Diamond requires staying in line throughout your run. I believe that it's easier to get back in line on a GC due to the larger pockets and the gutter-ball effect of the standard GC corner pockets others have mentioned in this thread.
Bottom line: you just need to be more precise in your shot making and your position play on a standard Diamond.
Nah, I wouldn't say "minority" at all. Just seasoned.
I come from the same school as well. An old-timer once told me when he sees someone continually undercutting a ball, and relying on the rails as [he called them sideboards, I call them gutterguards], it's because the player is likely afraid to "commit to the cut angle."And you're 100% correct on the leave aspect. One may hear commentators use the phrase "he cut that ball to the 'professional side' of the pocket" -- meaning the far side of the pocket away from the rail.
Great post!
-Sean
Practice
I use to play on Connelly's that were very easy pockets. Playing there for years hurt my game because now I play out of a place with tougher tables and its taken adjustment.
Now I try to get as much practice on a Triple-Shimmed table so when I go to play on the normal tables it's a lot easier. Practicing on the tougher tables gets you to focus and be precise. Now I pocket the balls cleaner on the normal table and play better too. I go the extreme of getting a couple of hours of practice on the Triple shim and then go play league/tournaments on the normal tables. I would suggest you spend "practice" days on the tougher table and when it comes to league/tournament days you practice on the same tables you will be playing on.
I use to play on Connelly's that were very easy pockets. Playing there for years hurt my game because now I play out of a place with tougher tables and its taken adjustment.
Now I try to get as much practice on a Triple-Shimmed table so when I go to play on the normal tables it's a lot easier. Practicing on the tougher tables gets you to focus and be precise. Now I pocket the balls cleaner on the normal table and play better too. I go the extreme of getting a couple of hours of practice on the Triple shim and then go play league/tournaments on the normal tables. I would suggest you spend "practice" days on the tougher table and when it comes to league/tournament days you practice on the same tables you will be playing on.
Once someone experiences what you are talking about they get it. If someone is used to a sloppy table when they go to a tight table more happens then just a few missed balls. They can find themselves panicking and missing so bad the pockets could not be big enough for the balls to go. Once the confidence goes you are done.
Diamond
With a Diamond you get Artemis rubber you also get real wood, you also have a table crafted here in the United States. A room open here in the Cleveland area 3 years ago when the Brunswicks were delivered all the boxes were from China. Also if you try to tighten the pockets on a Brunswick they spit the balls out , that is not the case with a Diamond.