BHE vs Regular (Parrallel) english
- Thread starter nfuids
- Start date
Oh yeah pull it all the way back
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Here's a link.
Ok here is a link to my match against Amar Kang. This is a bnr I did. You can easily see the BHE that I use on the five to put bottom left to get on the seven.
I line up initially as though I'm putting no english on it and do a couple of practice strokes, then lower my bridge for some slight draw and pivot for outside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glF7eSQE8hM&t=72m30s
Jaden
Ok here is a link to my match against Amar Kang. This is a bnr I did. You can easily see the BHE that I use on the five to put bottom left to get on the seven.
I line up initially as though I'm putting no english on it and do a couple of practice strokes, then lower my bridge for some slight draw and pivot for outside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glF7eSQE8hM&t=72m30s
Jaden
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For those who are still unclear about parallel english, BHE, FHE, and natural pivot length and how to apply them at the table appropriately, clear explanations, numerous demonstrations, and related instructional articles can be found here:
back-hand (BHE) and front-hand english (FHE)
parallel english
cue natural pivot length
Enjoy,
Dave
back-hand (BHE) and front-hand english (FHE)
parallel english
cue natural pivot length
Enjoy,
Dave
Hi Jaden,
One thing I've been wondering about is the throw that is caused by the spin on the cue ball. Since left english on the cue ball will throw the object ball to the right, my question is this:
Do you line up as if you are shooting a center ball shot into the center of the pocket, then pivot to allow the BHE to compensate for both the squirt and the throw; or do you line up as if you are shooting a center ball shot into the left side of the pocket (to compensate for the throw), then pivot to allow the BHE to compensate for the squirt only?
Thanks in advance.
Mike
well that isn't probably the right question to ask...
What I mean by that is that a better way to word that question would be, do you aim to send the ball where you want it to go, or do you change where you're attempting to send it to help adjust for certain aspects...
The answer is yes...
Let me qualify that.
You initially aim to send the ball where you want it to go for MOST shots.
As I've said, slow shots accentuate CIT (collision induced throw) so you have to adjust your aim for that.
Really hard shots can change things slightly as well, but it's less pronounced.
The reason I qualified that versus what you asked is that what part of the pocket you aim for is contingent upon what type of table you're playing on.
If you're playing on a table with wide facing angles for instance, you don't want to aim center pocket unless you are approaching the pocket directly. i.e. if you are shooting from closer to the rail you should aim to bank it in off the facing, not to center pocket.
When I play on a diamond versus a tight cut gold crown with straight angled facings I aim to a different part of the pocket.
Jaden
What I mean by that is that a better way to word that question would be, do you aim to send the ball where you want it to go, or do you change where you're attempting to send it to help adjust for certain aspects...
The answer is yes...
Let me qualify that.
You initially aim to send the ball where you want it to go for MOST shots.
As I've said, slow shots accentuate CIT (collision induced throw) so you have to adjust your aim for that.
Really hard shots can change things slightly as well, but it's less pronounced.
The reason I qualified that versus what you asked is that what part of the pocket you aim for is contingent upon what type of table you're playing on.
If you're playing on a table with wide facing angles for instance, you don't want to aim center pocket unless you are approaching the pocket directly. i.e. if you are shooting from closer to the rail you should aim to bank it in off the facing, not to center pocket.
When I play on a diamond versus a tight cut gold crown with straight angled facings I aim to a different part of the pocket.
Jaden
Fair enough.
I guess the better way to ask my question would be:
Do you change your pre-pivot aim point to compensate for the amount of throw that the sidespin will create, or does the BHE pivot take care of that compensation for you (along with the compensation for squirt)?
I was just using "center pocket" as a common target reference for the object ball.
Basically... On the 5 ball shot you talked about hitting with left english, would your pre-pivot aim point for the object ball be closer to the line on the left (which compensates for the throw caused by the left english), or the line on the right (which does not compensate for the throw)?
line on the right...
for most shots, I don't deviate from aiming right where I want the ball to go.
Inside/outside, follow or draw..
As I stated though, I DO raise or lower my bridge as much as possible when using follow or draw to minimize swerve and I compensate my aim accordingly when I can't. I aim thinner with inside and thicker with outside.
Jaden
Fair enough.
I guess the better way to ask my question would be:
Do you change your pre-pivot aim point to compensate for the amount of throw that the sidespin will create, or does the BHE pivot take care of that compensation for you (along with the compensation for squirt)?
I was just using "center pocket" as a common target reference for the object ball.
Basically... On the 5 ball shot you talked about hitting with left english, would your pre-pivot aim point for the object ball be closer to the line on the left (which compensates for the throw caused by the left english), or the line on the right (which does not compensate for the throw)?
for most shots, I don't deviate from aiming right where I want the ball to go.
Inside/outside, follow or draw..
As I stated though, I DO raise or lower my bridge as much as possible when using follow or draw to minimize swerve and I compensate my aim accordingly when I can't. I aim thinner with inside and thicker with outside.
Jaden
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Fantastic... Thank you!
I think that's where I may be going wrong... especially when using inside english.
Cheers,
Mike
The biggest problem most people have...
The biggest problem most people have when switching to using BHE, is trusting that it will work and NOT compensating.
The other problem is maintaining a straight stroke while pivoting the arm.
It's important, I think, to rotate the arm out from the body or in towards the body from the shoulder not the elbow and for certain stances, this can create an awkward stroke.
I use a modified snooker stance that places my body more square to the shot, leaving ample space between the cue and my body to swing my arm in and out for side spin.
Jaden
The biggest problem most people have when switching to using BHE, is trusting that it will work and NOT compensating.
The other problem is maintaining a straight stroke while pivoting the arm.
It's important, I think, to rotate the arm out from the body or in towards the body from the shoulder not the elbow and for certain stances, this can create an awkward stroke.
I use a modified snooker stance that places my body more square to the shot, leaving ample space between the cue and my body to swing my arm in and out for side spin.
Jaden
Remember when using inside english the spin is being added to the collision induced throw for the softer shots.
A small amount of outside english first has to offset the collision induced throw before it can do any more for spin induced throw.
Hope that helps with the picture of why one needs to 'aim' thinner.
JB you did a good job of showing bhe there...
You also showed what makes using bhe on longer shots more difficult.
When you pivot from a center bridge for follow and draw like you did in the video, you elevate the butt and allow swerve to be greater. for closer to medium distance shots it's not a big deal, but for longer shots that swerve can drastically alter the shot causing you to miss.
That's why I recommend raising and lowering your bridge for follow and draw while using bhe. This helps to minimize the swerve and allows bhe to be more accurate for a greater number of shots.
Jaden
You also showed what makes using bhe on longer shots more difficult.
When you pivot from a center bridge for follow and draw like you did in the video, you elevate the butt and allow swerve to be greater. for closer to medium distance shots it's not a big deal, but for longer shots that swerve can drastically alter the shot causing you to miss.
That's why I recommend raising and lowering your bridge for follow and draw while using bhe. This helps to minimize the swerve and allows bhe to be more accurate for a greater number of shots.
Jaden
I'm still using BHE almost exclusively after finding out about it about 11 years ago. On some elevated or forced long or short bridges or slow shots, gotta rely on some of the old guessing game method.
There's not a player in my country I wouldn't play for $$ if every shot had to be played with 1 tip+ of side.
Colin
There's not a player in my country I wouldn't play for $$ if every shot had to be played with 1 tip+ of side.
Colin
Even Robbo?
I'd never heard about it before reading through some stuff here too. Honestly, I couldn't have told you what I was doing until recently, and I just developed a feel for it over the years. Turns out I've been using a quirky combination of BHE, FHE and parallel English, I guess, and messing around on different shots until it felt right.
I just recently started taking a couple of lessons. Now that I recognize what I'm doing exactly, I'm going to try to separate them and practice them separately so that I can control it better instead of just guessing.
I use BHE when needed. Generally its when I want to hit the QB easily but need a ton of spin to put the QB where I want it.
It works for Efren.
John
It works for Efren.
John