Billiards Digest 50 Greatest Players of the Century

[book collector]

You need to be careful comparing the breaks made by english-billiards players in different eras because the rules change. In Lindrum's day there was no limit on the number of consecutive cannons that could be made. Lindrum and others were able to master the nursery cannon and use it to build big breaks. (The all-time record, using a particular type of close cannon before it was banned, was a little under half a million!)

But modern players have long played under rules that limit you to 75 consecutive cannons (150 points) before pocketing a ball.

Tom Reece ran 200 thousand by "jawing" the balls in a corner and they made a rule against that. You are correct that Walter was the master of the nursery cannons but there is some video of him pocketing balls also and he was to say the least, a formidable shot maker.
Walter was the first to break the balls to a certain place to set up long runs.
How did I forget Lindrum in my list?

 

[Siz]

... I see they do have regular billiards players on the list yet no mention of Ceulemans!!! ....

I agree. There is always scope for argument with this sort if list; but omitting Ceulemans while including other carom players seems bizarre.

 

[book collector]

book collector...Absolutely! When Sports Illustrated sent Tom Fox to Johnston City, he interviewed all the players, one by one, on who was "the best" among them. Every one pointed to Willis, who was sitting on the sideline reading a newspaper (he never went to the tournaments to play...only to gamble). When he asked Willis why this was so, and why was he not playing in the tournament, Don responded, "Show me your list." Then he proceeded down the list..."Beat him, beat him, beat him, beat him, etc. He had a standing offer to play anyone for $25K (in 1950's money), if they came to Canton OH. The offer went unfulfilled for more than 20 years. That speaks volumes about his skill. He was also likely one of the most consumate hustlers and conmen that ever lived. Jack White, who traveled with Willis and Lassiter, at the same time, told me that he learned ONE thing about Don...NEVER bet against him, no matter how ridiculous the bet! LOL He was a walking encyclopedia on sports trivia...particularly baseball. He was also highly skilled at many things...dice, cards, horseshoes, table tennis, every form of billiards...even "backwards running"! LOL There will never be another Don Willis! He would walk into a poolroom and with his personality, just take over the place! His grandson posts here as Hustler!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Yeah, I've heard that story, I was asking why he wasn't on the list.
I met a nice guy named Dick Moecia about 10 or 15 years ago and he told me a lot of Don Willis stories.

 

[gopi-1]

that and the fact that they are merely 9ball players..

I am however SHOCKED that Varner didn't make top 10

Efren is a mere 9 ball player? I don't agree with the list but I wouldn't shoot it down either, because this list was for the last century, but Efren "killed" it in 1P and 8 balls afterwards, not to mention he's the best Rotation player of all time...

 

[softshot]

not to mention he's the best Rotation player of all time...

says who??

give me 9 more to make your top 10 rotation players (rotation = 61 points to win)

 

[gopi-1]

says who??

give me 9 more to make your top 10 rotation players (rotation = 61 points to win)

I should have added the word "arguably" there, because there's no way to find out who is the best Rotation player of all time, but this I know, all the players from Efren's era either avoided him, or have askedhim for an arm and a leg to play him, from Sigel to Hall to Strickland to Varner, and all his fellow Filipino players...

 

[jay helfert]

No Ceulemans! Wow is all I have to say. Simply the greatest Three Cushion player of all time. And yes, Bloomdahl belongs on there too, as does Steve Davis and Stephen Hendry. Walter Lindrum should be near the top as well. And no list like this can leave Eddie Kelly off. Other names worth mentioning are Johnny Lineen (aka Johnny Irish), Don Willis and John "Rags" Fitzpatrick. Primarily pool hustlers, they were among the best players on the planet during their careers. Jose Parica is another one that belongs on here. I'd take these ten over many of the "names" on that list. But that's just me.

 

[TX Poolnut]

Look at Loree Jon Jones' and Jeanette Lee's tournament win records and then look at Allison Fisher's record.

The fact that Allison Fisher isn't on the list and those two are, just shows the silliness of this list.

Nobody has dominated women's pool like Allison Fisher.

 

[gopi-1]

Look at Loree Jon Jones' and Jeanette Lee's tournament win records and then look at Allison Fisher's record.

The fact that Allison Fisher isn't on the list and those two are, just shows the silliness of this list.

Nobody has dominated women's pool like Allison Fisher.

Allison is # 18 I believe. Woman's pool = Jean Balukas imho...

 

[PoolBum]

The fact that Allison Fisher isn't on the list and those two are, just shows the silliness of this list.

Nobody has dominated women's pool like Allison Fisher.

Allison is number 18. Balukas dominated women's play much more than Fisher.

 

[book collector]

No Ceulemans! Wow is all I have to say. Simply the greatest Three Cushion player of all time. And yes, Bloomdahl belongs on there too, as does Steve Davis and Stephen Hendry. Walter Lindrum should be near the top as well. And no list like this can leave Eddie Kelly off. Other names worth mentioning are Johnny Lineen (aka Johnny Irish), Don Willis and John "Rags" Fitzpatrick. Primarily pool hustlers, they were among the best players on the planet during their careers. Jose Parica is another one that belongs on here. I'd take these ten over many of the "names" on that list. But that's just me.

I'm losing it, I forgot Rags Fitzpatrick and George Rood told me he never saw anybody play that he thought could beat him except maybe Efren.
Forgot all the snooker players. Joe Davis dominated snooker for about 20 years , can't leave him out.

 

[TX Poolnut]

my eyes are going bad.

 

[gopi-1]

my eyes are going bad.

You're not alone TX, I hope this makes you feel a bit better...

 

[spanky79]

Efren Reyes would be no lower than #2 Eddie Taylor would be in top 3,Buddy Hall in top 4
several are not pool players but billiard players

Wimpy,Eddie kelly,Ronnie,and some of the Filipinos are missing,Harold Worst and Jersey Red are top 20

Efryn is the best one pocket player ever,including now for my money unless he got terribly sick and i don't know it[/QUOTE

Efren is just fine.

 

[sammylane12]

Jersey Red should be ranked higher. If not for Wimpy he would have been the best player in the world during his era. And I agree with the post about Raymond Ceulemans. Easily the billiard player of all time in my opinion. It is a joke to leave him off if you include billiard players.

 

[C.Milian]

What about Bustamante?

 

[pt109]

For this kind of thing, I think you need to rank men and women seperatly. It's just not a fair comparison as Reyes was up against far stronger competition than Loree Jon Jones ever faced on a regular basis.

I agree that Walter Lindrum is number 1, no question. The guy was required to spot the other top players in a major tournament, and still won. His high break hasn't even been approached in the past 60 years, not even once. I think Geet Sethi has the modern day high break of 1270, Walter Lindrum is over 4000.

Steve Davis and Stephen Hendry should be in the top ten. They both made their competition look silly in the 80's and 90's respectively. No one has won more than Davis in snooker, not even Hendry. I don't understand why in the pool community people tend to pretend snooker doesn't exist.

I agree about separating the men and women.
I'm a Jean Balukas fan but I think Allison Fisher should be #1...she
dominated when the field was tougher.

And I think it's worth mentioning that the 4,000+ run by Lindrum was in
a world championship..he had made 3,900+ the previous year in the same
tournament...and these runs were on two different types of cloth.
Joe Davis talks about Lindrum getting applause in informal games for how
many pieces of chalk he went through in a run.:yikes:
Walter basically ruined the game like Cochran, Schaefer et al did at
straight-rail.....he kept scoring through a few rule changes.

I don't miss snooker players on this list...usually considered a separate
category....Steve Davis is my favorite player but I think Hendry should
get the #1 spot.

 

[scttybee]

no disrespect to allison but jean takes#1 woman period-the level of competion was always behind and always will-we see women play men and win matches as they should-jeanie made em change the rules !
the rest of this list is as usual subject to certain opinions and favoritism
billiard games(carom)shouldnt be part of pocket billiards theyre just too diferent(the object is the same(control whitey)but the strategy and shots are completely different(the result of a safety in one is different than the other.)
snooker could be on there but not fair to each side-hendry and davis are obvious because thats who most of us know-arent there 48 other good/great snooker players somewhere?(career wise)
there needs to be separate lists-which names may carry one to the other(hoppe being a good example)then line em up on a wall and see what everyone says from there
the reasons i say this being there are way too many good/great players at each discipline to be left off because someone from another discipline need the spot

 

[Cameron Smith]

I agree about separating the men and women.
I'm a Jean Balukas fan but I think Allison Fisher should be #1...she
dominated when the field was tougher.

And I think it's worth mentioning that the 4,000+ run by Lindrum was in
a world championship..he had made 3,900+ the previous year in the same
tournament...and these runs were on two different types of cloth.
Joe Davis talks about Lindrum getting applause in informal games for how
many pieces of chalk he went through in a run.:yikes:
Walter basically ruined the game like Cochran, Schaefer et al did at
straight-rail.....he kept scoring through a few rule changes.

I don't miss snooker players on this list...usually considered a separate
category....Steve Davis is my favorite player but I think Hendry should
get the #1 spot.

It's very hard to rank Davis and Hendry. Steve Davis was more domninant but he played a more conservative style. Hendry has one more world title but Steve is ahead in overall professional wins and you can't really count ranking titles as there were more ranking events for Stephen Hendry to play throughout his career.

I used to give the nod to Stephen as he changed the style in which the game is played, we see 50+ breaks every frame these days because players have adopted his attacking style. But you may notice watching 80's snooker, there was far more variety as far as stroking style and stances. Nowadays everyone looks like a Steve Davis clone. So I really don't know.

As for English Billiards and comparing modern day breaks to Lindrums record, I know there is a limit in cannons but from watching the World Professional Championship no one was even approaching that limitation. Even when the balls were together, I think the longest string of cannons I saw was 10 not even close to 75. For Walter that would still be an easy 150 points.

 

[pt109]

I used to give the nod to Stephen as he changed the style in which the game is played, we see 50+ breaks every frame these days because players have adopted his attacking style. But you may notice watching 80's snooker, there was far more variety as far as stroking style and stances. Nowadays everyone looks like a Steve Davis clone. So I really don't know.

This is one argument I would love to lose.
Steve Davis is a great representative of his sport.....
...golf has many heroes and Steve is their equal.
I might be a little biased here...knew him when he was a kid.
He was more mature at 17 than I could be if I live to be 100.

..now that I think of it...he's starting to bother me.:angry:
..He makes me feel like a moron.:smile: