Billy Incardona - Short Rant

[sfleinen]

Sean, the only one talking about a lynching is you. Go burn your straw man somewhere else.

Lou Figueroa

Wrong. Read through the thread, Lou. There are folks that've made the innuendo about being past his time (the old age comments), not letting him in the commentator's booth, etc. That's not lynching? It's just a word to describe what I (and others) see.

-Sean <-- does play with drinking straws from time to time

 

[Mikjary]

Terry (and Lou):

The problem with this whole thing is it's much ado about nothing. It could be a Seinfeld episode (on the level of the "yadda yadda yadda" episode). You have the "I Sounded The First Alarm!" personalities, who then stir others to march behind them, and before you know it, you've got a full-fledged lynching party. And over what? An associative word-play slip of the tongue?

I agree that we should always strive for high standards. Methinks in this case, a private note to Billy I. (offline from the forums) letting him know that "hey, you know, that may not have been cool, and could be misinterpreted." The sort of tap-the-shoulder-and-whisper-in-the-ear approach seems to work best.

But that's not how our sensationalist society likes to work. Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame (or pound of flesh -- take your pick).

-Sean <-- back to Seinfeld episodes

I like this method the best. Good post, Sean. This would be a great way to improve the commentating without alienating anybody. Constructive criticism is always welcome when it's done for a purpose in the right setting.

Best,
Mike

 

[lfigueroa]

Wrong. Read through the thread, Lou. There are folks that've made the innuendo about being past his time (the old age comments), not letting him in the commentator's booth, etc. That's not lynching? It's just a word to describe what I (and others) see.

-Sean <-- does play with drinking straws from time to time

I call BS -- show me.

I've been keeping up with the thread and it's been everyone saying how much they've liked Billy's commentating over the years, myself included. Have a few folks suggested we could use some new blood in the booth? Yes. So what? That's not a "lynching," it's a good suggestion that should be given serious consideration.

So show me all the folks chanting to not let him in the commentator's booth. You need a crowd for a lynching. Show me the crowd. I think you're playing with straws, again.

Lou Figueroa

 

[sfleinen]

I call BS -- show me.

I've been keeping up with the thread and it's been everyone saying how much they've liked Billy's commentating over the years, myself included. Have a few folks suggested we could use some new blood in the booth? Yes. So what? That's not a "lynching," it's a good suggestion that should be given serious consideration.

So show me all the folks chanting to not let him in the commentator's booth. You need a crowd for a lynching. Show me the crowd. I think you're playing with straws, again.

Lou Figueroa

How about posts 2, 4, and 6, for starters? Yes, fortunately, most of the posts have been on Billy's side, including mine, and including yours.

You're spinning the lynching thing as if to say I said "most" of the posts were against Billy, which I never said. I just said that a certain faction started it, and some climbed aboard. And I stand by that.

P.S.: I'll give you the word "lynching" may be a bit strong to describe what I'm describing. You know what? I'll give you that one.

-Sean

 

[sfleinen]

I like this method the best. Good post, Sean. This would be a great way to improve the commentating without alienating anybody. Constructive criticism is always welcome when it's done for a purpose in the right setting.

Best,
Mike

Thanks, Mike. And you know? That's really the point. If you, Mike, were in the booth, and made an off-color comment that I thought "could" be taken the wrong way, you can bet that I'd contact you offline and let you know, perhaps offering a scenario or two of how it could be handled better. I certainly wouldn't take it to the streets, for you to read about yourself in the morning paper.

Criticism -- especially the constructive (or reparative) type -- is always good when it's done for those purposes. Or even the not-so-constructive type -- if I wanted to reach out and call you a horse's rear end for an inappropriate associative word-play that "offended" me -- it still is received much better in private than on a public forum.

-Sean <-- looks like a horse's rear end when he grows his bangs really, really long

 

[vincentwu817]

Oh shit Vinny, I thought you were Italian. We aren't friends any longer...jk

Ha ha ha, we were friends to begin with??

 

[Terry Ardeno]

No, Terry, that's not true. It wasn't about operating at 100% and it wasn't about a mispronunciation. As I read the OP, and several subsequent posts, it was about mocking an Asian players name, re: "ping pong." I get that Billy apologized and thats fine, but it doesn't mean that people here cannot discuss the issue of professionalism in the commentary booth in an adult, rational manner.

And as an aside, the use of the following words ^^^^^ "finger pointing," "hacking," "complainers," whiners," "dogging," and my favorite, "some yo-yo," are a lot worse than any sin you're pointing your finger at.

Lou Figueroa

Lou,

I believe there's a huge difference between discussing professionalism in the booth and being hyper-critical of things that harmed no one.

And those choice words and phrases in my post were my weak attempt at levity. Are any of our respective opinions really "sin"s, as you implied? Nope. They're all just opinions.

You quite correctly called me out on "yo-yo'. I am guilty of NOT being politically correct by using such time honored monikers as "yo-yo". Personally, I believe our society has become too politically correct. "Sissified" if you will!

Terry

 

[vincentwu817]

On a different note, did anyone of you who were at the Rio hear "Next up, Mike Bobble Head Douchaine?" I'm not sure if I was hungover and hearing things.

 

[dabarbr]

On a different note, did anyone of you who were at the Rio hear "Next up, Mike Bobble Head Douchaine?" I'm not sure if I was hungover and hearing things.

You heard correct and it seems like it's caught on. In some conversations some are referring to him like that. Kind of funny and I agree somewhat.

 

[jay helfert]

Billy Incardona is one of pool's elite commentators. He does, at times, struggle with names.

Billy made a minor error here and it needs to be shrugged off. Reading great impropriety into Billy's error is, at least to me, absolutely ridiculous.

We are very lucky to be able to listen to Billy's exceptional commentary and should be tolerant of the fact that he makes an occasional error.

Americans are not completely at ease with many of the Asian names, but we do our best. I recall once referring to former Taiwanese superstar Fong Pang Chao as Pong Fang Chao. My inaccurate use of the word "Pong" was an honest mistake. It happens.

Time to move on.

I screwed that one up during his introduction on live TV in the Philippines! I don't remember what I called him, but for damn sure it wasn't his correct name. He just smiled and stood up for the introduction anyway.

P.S. I had an opportunity to work on one match with Billy while I was there. It's such a pleasure for me to work with him, like putting on an old shoe. :wink:
We get to watch a good match and have a fun conversation at the same time. Billy hasn't slipped an inch. He's still one sharp cookie!

 

[lfigueroa]

How about posts 2, 4, and 6, for starters? Yes, fortunately, most of the posts have been on Billy's side, including mine, and including yours.

You're spinning the lynching thing as if to say I said "most" of the posts were against Billy, which I never said. I just said that a certain faction started it, and some climbed aboard. And I stand by that.

P.S.: I'll give you the word "lynching" may be a bit strong to describe what I'm describing. You know what? I'll give you that one.

-Sean

Here are posts two, four, and six in their entirety:

"Completely agree. Just because someone was a road player does not make them a good commentator by any stretch. People in the booth should be able to pronounce the players names and have a fundamental understanding of the tournament format."

"Can't expect too much out of some commentators that are mostly in their late 70's and were raised in a time of high racism.

Some of these old timers probably think that the Ko's grandfather was responsible for pearl harbor because they're asian."

"No, but I would expect they place someone in the booth who speaks with something higher than what sounds like a 5th grade education. They may be legendary players but they are extremely lacking when it comes to professional commentary."

You asserted that there was a call to bar Billy from the booth. (I was never looking for the use of the term "lynching." You pulled that out of your ass.)

Your assertion was BS.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

I believe there's a huge difference between discussing professionalism in the booth and being hyper-critical of things that harmed no one.

And those choice words and phrases in my post were my weak attempt at levity. Are any of our respective opinions really "sin"s, as you implied? Nope. They're all just opinions.

You quite correctly called me out on "yo-yo'. I am guilty of NOT being politically correct by using such time honored monikers as "yo-yo". Personally, I believe our society has become too politically correct. "Sissified" if you will!

Terry

Terry, it is not being "hypercritical" to discuss and criticize commentary that reflects on our sport. Professionalism in the booth, or the lack of it, has the potential to elevate or disparage all of us as a community.

I am un-PC as they come. But I do know that when you're in front of a mike, the rules change.

Lou Figueroa

 

[BeiberLvr]

Here are posts two, four, and six in their entirety:

"Completely agree. Just because someone was a road player does not make them a good commentator by any stretch. People in the booth should be able to pronounce the players names and have a fundamental understanding of the tournament format."

"Can't expect too much out of some commentators that are mostly in their late 70's and were raised in a time of high racism.

Some of these old timers probably think that the Ko's grandfather was responsible for pearl harbor because they're asian."

"No, but I would expect they place someone in the booth who speaks with something higher than what sounds like a 5th grade education. They may be legendary players but they are extremely lacking when it comes to professional commentary."

You asserted that there was a call to bar Billy from the booth. (I was never looking for the use of the term "lynching." You pulled that out of your ass.)

Your assertion was BS.

Lou Figueroa

None of those posts are in any way kind to Billy, and while it's only a small sample, there was definitely a group of people that didn't think he should be in the booth (at least temporarily). To think otherwise is just being naive, whether or not you agree.

As far as the actual comment of calling an Asian person, "Ping Pong," I sort of compare it to the college basketball commentator who called an all black female team, "Nappy headed hoes."

While some may find it sad, pool is obviously not as popular as women's basketball. However, even in the unpopular game of pool, commentators should still be held to certain standards.

 

[lfigueroa]

None of those posts are in any way kind to Billy, and while it's only a small sample, there was definitely a group of people that didn't think he should be in the booth (at least temporarily). To think otherwise is just being naive, whether or not you agree.

As far as the actual comment of calling an Asian person, "Ping Pong," I sort of compare it to the college basketball commentator who called an all black female team, "Nappy headed hoes."

While some may find it sad, pool is obviously not as popular as women's basketball. However, even in the unpopular game of pool, commentators should still be held to certain standards.

Yes, you're right. Those comments are not necessarily kind.

However, they fall far short of calling for a lynching, which is what Sean asserted was happening -- saying people here were calling for Billy to be barred from the booth. That is BS and that was my point.

And as I recall, CBS fired Don Imus for his comments about the Rutrgers women's basketball team. It's not exactly the same but warping the names of Asian players into "ping pong" and "kung pao" is not cool, IMO.

The bottom-line issue is about professionalism in the booth

Lou Figueroa

 

[number13cfan]

IMHO, there's nothing this 20 page thread can do to revive Pool in this country. whether the comments about the subject are "Pro" or "Con" on the commentator's comments in the booth.

If all the viewers, including myself, (2 posts) considered the time they've spent posting in this thread thought it was going to be useful to promote and support the game then it wouldn't matter much.

How about everyone that has posted to this thread donate $5.00 per post, maybe for developing NEW young players with instruction, tournaments or exhibitions. Maybe all this time people are using here would be put to better use!

But, what everyone is doing here now, means nothing, REALLY!

I'll put my10 bucks in!

 

[scttybee]

lou
i usually enjoy what you have to say...that being said let this thread die...i dont/cant agree with anything going against billy at this point all of this is negative and not neccessary

 

[Mikjary]

I wonder if any Chinese people have ever had a problem with the English language?



Best,
Mike

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou, I have always respected you for your straight forwardness and your fairness when debating. I have done commentary on Imo more matches than any one and I can'recall any one drinking while in the booth other than the time Keith McCreedy did. However at that time it was the great Keith McCreedy and he was just being him, the funniest coolest guy in pool and no one cared including myself and Pat. Other than that one time I cant remember that ever happening.

Have a good day Lou

Bill Incardona

Dr. Bill, I meant to respond to this earlier but got distracted.

I believe you know from our previous history that I hold you in the highest regard as a player, commentator, and person. I still, to this day, cherish your comments to me after you watched my TAR match at the US 1Pocket Open in Vegas a few years ago. You were very kind,

And as I have often said, you are one of the great TV commentators in our sport and you and Grady together were legendary.

Just try and keep the Chinese sports and luncheon menus out of the commentary ;-)

Lou Figueroa
love you, Billy

 

[lfigueroa]

IMHO, there's nothing this 20 page thread can do to revive Pool in this country. whether the comments about the subject are "Pro" or "Con" on the commentator's comments in the booth.

If all the viewers, including myself, (2 posts) considered the time they've spent posting in this thread thought it was going to be useful to promote and support the game then it wouldn't matter much.

How about everyone that has posted to this thread donate $5.00 per post, maybe for developing NEW young players with instruction, tournaments or exhibitions. Maybe all this time people are using here would be put to better use!

But, what everyone is doing here now, means nothing, REALLY!

I'll put my10 bucks in!

Good grief. Nothing on this whole forum is going to revive pool in this country. We're just talking here, passing the time. Get a grip.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

lou
i usually enjoy what you have to say...that being said let this thread die...i dont/cant agree with anything going against billy at this point all of this is negative and not neccessary

Sctty, I'm think I'm pretty much done.

Lou Figueroa
unless Sean wants to
push the lynching crap