Blackjack's Buzzkill

Blackjack

Illuminati Blacksmack
Silver Member
I have remained very quiet during the IPT's recent rise to prominence within the sport of professional pool. I have sat back, I have watched, I have listened and now I feel as if it is time to speak my mind. I will warn you - if you don't like the truth or if you cannot handle hearing the truth - I have filled the following paragraphs with nothing but the truth. The truth should not be hidden, it should not be modified, it should not be avoided. The truth should be told. Sometimes the truth can be quite humbling. That is the case with many of the statements I will make here.

First of all, I am very passionate about the game of pool. I am very passionate about seeing the game of pool experience the popularity it deserves and as a trickle down effect, the players and the industry (as a whole) will benefit from that. I have worked long and hard to bring a positive approach of seeing that dream realized only to have a select few try to prevent it from ever happening. I will break this down into sections, and believe it or not, this is a positive message that will challenge everyone involved with our game, our industry, and our tours. I for one am motivated to see that pool reaps the benefits of our hard work. The IPT does not offer that at all.

My Problem with the IPT

Nothing personal, Mr. Trudeau, or Mr. Sigel, but we have all been through this before. I will resurrect a quote of mine.

"The game of pool will never thrive nor will it ever experience any type of success unless we first unite the players and the industry to work towards a common goal. If we fail to do that, we will never earn the respect of the public, the media, or the people that are part of our industry. If we do not wake up and start to change the infrastructure of how we market ourselves to the public - we will drift away into obscurity and the MPBT players will suffer the consequences. I predict that if something is not done soon, the tour will will eventually collapse from within. I hope I am wrong."

That is a direct quote from my book, The Growling Point. I wrote that in 1995. I'll let your imagination figure out the rest. I was right then, and I am right now. That's some insight on my foresight as it relates to what I am about to say. If I offend anyone, so be it. If I have to offend some people to get this started, I'm more than willing to stand up in your face.

Our game does not need money thrown into the purses. The money this tour is offering is very high compared to what the professional players are used to. The trouble is, the increase in the prize fund should be gradual. We should work our way up to achieve that status. The players, after doing the work necessary to achieve that level of prize money - will appreciate it more. Right now, you have players that are blinded by the money that is being offered. Greed steps in and reason flies out the window. Many of the players have no idea how to handle the little bit of money that is floating around now. The level of responsibility should match the dollar signs.

Before I am marked as being negative about this, remember that I had some very heated discussions with people about this same subject when Don Mackey made the deal with Camel. I was marked as a troublemaker, and branded as an outsider that was trying to cause turmoil because my playing skills would never garnish me any of the Camel Tour prize fund. While that sounded good at the time, at the same insulting me while discounting my foresight, it did nothing to solve the eventual downfall of the MPBT. In 1996, frustrated, I got out of the way to allow that to happen. It was one of the most painful, difficult decisions I had to make, but in 1996, I walked away from professional pool- disgusted. We had allowed the snake to wrap itself around us and choke the life out of us. In the end, the players were left with no professional tour.

In 2000, I publicly asked Don Mackey to address the players, to address the industry, and to apologize for the mess that he had left us with. If anyone knows the exact whereabouts of Donald Mackey, tell him I am still waiting for his response. I think we are at least owed an explanation. Good money says that we never get one.

I bring this up because players are once again distracted by these large amounts of money that are being offered. Nobody is looking at the long term. Nobody. Everyone is imagining cashing that big check. Understand, that not everyone will be cashing big checks. I look at Kevin Trudeau and I see Don Mackey all over again. Same promises, same M.O., same lack of interest in anything but the hype. Players, how many times do we need to get kicked in the balls before we realize that all of these people genuinely believe that we are all as dumb as we look?

Kevin Trudeau, you offer nothing to the players and even less to the billiards industry. You dabble in this, you dabble in that. I have given over 35 years of my life to a game that I love dearly. I will not allow another person to rape our players or our spirit ever again. Keep your money and move on. You are an industry outsider that is coming in to make a score, and by this time next year you'll be planning your escape. Save us all the trouble.

Mike Sigel, how dare you lead the charge with this garbage.

To the younger players:
My generation did not leave you guys much to work with. If it was my fault, I would apologize. Those that are at fault won't admit it. I challenge all of you guys to stop chasing money and unite with a common goal: A successful professional tour that benefits the players, the tour, and the industry. Depsite what others will tell you, it CAN be done.

The the veteran players:
When is "enough" enough? Think about it. In the world of sports we don't matter at all. We're not high on the list of priorities at ESPN or anywhere else for that matter. I'm angry about that. You should be too. Don't hand me this nonsense that the IPT is going to bring you money. Money comes and money goes. If you want to impress me, build a tour that will last. We have great players and great minds that can figure out intricate runout patterns, 100 ball runs, 3 rail kick safes, yet when we ask people to do something simple like put together a tour that works, we fail miserably every single time. We make the same mistakes over and over and fall for the same trick every single time. That is the legacy of our generation. Take back control of our sport. Make the pro tour attractive to prospective sponsors within our industry. The money is there. When you can attract sponsorship from within our industry, then the next logical step is to make the tour attractive to prospective sponsors outside our industry. What we are doing with the IPT is backwards. We've tried this before and we have failed.

To the industry:
If you love this game, then show it. Let it show in your support of the tour, the players, and let it show in how you work with other industry leaders. Until we unite, we will never fully experience our potential for success. This is directed to cuemakers, table manufacturers, wholesalers, instructors, the billard media, etc. We're all in the same boat, not separate lifeboats. Act like it.


To anyone else that may read this:
If you love the game of pool more than you love the money that is drawn to it, then please give me a phone call. I would love to positively work with you to build our sport into something we can all be proud of. If you are part of the pack that likes to criticize people like myself, CJ Wiley, Allen Hopkins, Charlie Williams, Frank Alvarez and others who donate their time and energy to at least attempt to progress our sport into the mainstream, save your energy. I only have time to move forward with this. If you would like to be a part of this, feel free to contact me Monday-Thursday 10am-10pm at 386-208-0011.

If you disgaree with anything I have said here, call me. I am not writing this to cause trouble, or to spark an endless debate. That is wasted energy. I am writing this because I truly love this game and I have this sick sinking feeling in my belly once again. I challenge everyone that reads this to seriously think about everything our game has been through up to this point. Something has to change. I for one, am willing to make that happen.

Blackjack David Sapolis
 
Hi Blackjack. I read your post three times, and I really couldn't find an explanation as to why you think the IPT won't work. You say that it won't work, but you give no concrete reasons as to why. To the average pool fan, we're just all excited that a tour finally found a way to gather the best of the best into one tour. When have we ever experienced a pool tournament with a list of players such as the IPT's King of the Hill? Not in my lifetime, or anyone else's lifetime for that matter. You may be right about the IPT...it may fall flat on its face in a year or two. But you can't argue the excitement it's bringing to the industry. Even if it does fail in the long term, i think it's better than nothing.
 
Sigel is a Disgrace !!!

Well said David!!

And I feel Mike Sigel should step down as the automatic #1 seed. He earned nothing except being the snake oil salesman's buddy!!

If this was a real boost to a pro tour do a normal seeding. After 3 events, then by use of a points system have a ladder with #1 getting a first round bye, #2 plays #264, #3 plays # 263 ect...etc.

Being involved as the DIrector of an auto racing series here in Florida, I understand the value -vs- return of marketing. Many of our race teams are racing our series due to a television package we have. This package is paid for by the series and it's sponsors to give exposure to the competitors. This has generated more sponsors to become involved and more racers joining the series. Somebody has got to step up and put the horse before the cart, not ass backwards by paying your friends and hoping a marketing partner will join into the farce.

Hopefully someone will have the strength to show Kevin Trudeau his errors, step up and take control, and this tour may just succeed, if not as you say it will fail and bring professional pool down further on the food chain of marketable sports venues.


Joe
 
Blackjack said:
I bring this up because players are once again distracted by these large amounts of money that are being offered. Nobody is looking at the long term. Nobody. Everyone is imagining cashing that big check. Understand, that not everyone will be cashing big checks. I look at Kevin Trudeau and I see Don Mackey all over again. Same promises, same M.O., same lack of interest in anything but the hype. Players, how many times do we need to get kicked in the balls before we realize that all of these people genuinely believe that we are all as dumb as we look?

Kevin Trudeau, you offer nothing to the players and even less to the billiards industry. You dabble in this, you dabble in that. I have given over 35 years of my life to a game that I love dearly. I will not allow another person to rape our players or our spirit ever again. Keep your money and move on. You are an industry outsider that is coming in to make a score, and by this time next year you'll be planning your escape. Save us all the trouble.

I have remained quiet about this whole IPT situation as well. I have watched, I've read over the web site, and this is how I feel about it as of this writing:

As Blackjack has correctly noted in my opinion, when I see Kevin Trudeau I see & hear Don Mackey as well. The difference is that Kevin Trudeau has already been shown to be a con man & hustler by the general public at large with his infomercials, books & legal litigations, whereas if memory serves Don Mackey had no publically known criminal record or history when the PBTA first came into being. If my memory is incorrect regarding Don's pre-PBTA associations, please feel free to correct me on that.

If you look on the Amazon.com website, there is review after review of Kevin Trudeau's products that are less than flattering; some of the reviews are actually quite scathing. This alone should provide some inkling as to what his true motivations are.

I didn't trust the PBTA in the 90's & ultimately passed on playing on that tour, and as it turned out I was correct in my instincts about it. Needless to say, I did not apply to join the IPT when the applications were being taken on their website because of my misgivings about it; I have not applied as an alternate either. I simply just don't trust it because 1) I trust my instincts and 2) I have a bad feeling that should this organization fold, it will set the sport back by years, if not infinitely. Additionally, when I look at the IPT, I see nothing but greed & those only out for a fast buck at someone else's expense. Also, this "world championship" event they had recently was a complete farce, joke & embarassment to the sport in my opinion.

For a tour like the IPT to work, it needs to have a solid organization. Throwing money at pool alone is not going to bring the sport into the dignity & prominence that it enjoyed early in the 20th century with players like Mosconi playing in ballrooms in tuxedo. The organization behind the scenes, to the best of my knowledge, is not staffed by anyone who would know what the fans want to watch & see when it comes to professional pool. Kevin Trudeau, with his questionable motives & credentials, is not the saving grace that many fans & some players are pinning their hopes on in my opinion.

Additionally, there needs a staff of business-minded savvy pool players & other well-respected people who have worked in the pool & billiard business need to be put in place to run or otherwise give their input on issues that can & will come up because they & they alone will know what the fans want to see & watch on television or other associated medium; Kevin Trudeau & his associates have no clue about this whatsoever in my opinion.

Finally as a side note to Blackjack, the last I heard about Don Mackey was that he had opened a used car lot somewhere in the state of Florida. Additionally, I was told he was living on the same golf course he was when the PBTA was still around. However, the information is years old so he more than likely has moved on to other projects & locales by this time.
 
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jsp said:
Hi Blackjack. I read your post three times, and I really couldn't find an explanation as to why you think the IPT won't work. You say that it won't work, but you give no concrete reasons as to why. To the average pool fan, we're just all excited that a tour finally found a way to gather the best of the best into one tour. When have we ever experienced a pool tournament with a list of players such as the IPT's King of the Hill? Not in my lifetime, or anyone else's lifetime for that matter. You may be right about the IPT...it may fall flat on its face in a year or two. But you can't argue the excitement it's bringing to the industry. Even if it does fail in the long term, i think it's better than nothing.

I did not post that to debate it or to solve all the problems with the sport on an internet forum thread. If you are motivated to help change the game and steer it in the right direction, please give me a call. It is not my intention to publicly tear apart the IPT and their practices. I see nothing new being offered. I see the mice following the Pied Piper once again. Yes it is bringing excitement, but we don't need excitement, we need organization and we need unity. This tour does absolutely NOTHING for the industry, or the game - long term. I cannot stop players for from supporting this tour or playing on this tour. That is not my intention. My point is, given Mr. Trudeau's track record I am not so trusting of his judgment or his business practices, nor do I feel comfortable with him ascending to the throne to control the fate of professional pool. You may feel comfortable. I don't and neither do many people that are quietly thinking the same things that I brought up in my initial post. Jennie can can write her buzz-buster, that's fine. I have a lot of respect for her and Keith, yet I completely disagree with her about her opinion of Mr. Trudeau. That's fine. All I am saying, is that pool would be smart to have a back-up plan in case this doesn't work out (and believe me, it won't). If we don't do something to take back control, we'll be caught with our pants around our ankles again like we did when the MPBT went down in flames. That wasn't fun. We lost the PCA and trhe MPBT back to back and in the end we were left with nothing. All these years later, we have even less to work with. This has been done before. Instead of the money going into the prize fund, put it into organization and marketing our sport. That is where the money needs to go, not in the pockets of people who are just excited about a big payday. Big paydays are great. But answer me this... how is this tour planning on making up the cost to put on these events? Is Mr. Trudeau just a nice guy that plans on tossing money into all of these tournaments because he likes us? How long do you think that will last? Is he planning on turning a profit? If so how? These are the questions none of the IPT supporters that I've talked to have answers for. They just care that the money is there right now and they want to get their hands on some of it. We've gone down this road before. When Camel realized that they were losing money with professional pool, they dumped us - quick. We didn't have a back up plan. We still have not recovered from that. You may have read about it, but some of us lived through all of that. It hasn't been fun.

So I say again, if you are a person that believes that this must change, give me a call. I'd be more than happy to work with whoever cares about pool, not the money.
 
Blackjack said:
If you are part of the pack that likes to criticize people like myself, CJ Wiley, Allen Hopkins, Charlie Williams, Frank Alvarez and others who donate their time and energy to at least attempt to progress our sport into the mainstream, save your energy.

Blackjack David Sapolis

I found that part of the whole thing extremely ironic and hypocritical.
 
I agree with Blackjack 100%. The problem I see with pool players day in and day out is greed. They see dollar signs, and they go for it. Many and I repeat MANY pool players do not realize no matter how they want to slice it, a person still has to WORK for money. There are too many seeking the quick buck or fast hustle to make a spare hundred or two. That is what our sport has become. It is no longer a sport, but a constant hustle from one player to the next. And I don't mean just with pool players, it also is this way among some cuemakers and most things revolving around the game of pool. I am a horrible pool player according to most evidently, but I enjoy the game as a hobby. I never once claimed to be God's gift to pool. It does not put food on my table nor a roof over my head. It is a game, I take it serious yes, but it is still just a game. I have another profession as my job. If you want to have pool as a profession, then you need to carry yourself and act like a professional, not some two bit sleeze ball trying to hustle a nickel off someone. You work at a profession. You dedicate your life to it, both emotionally and physically. I lack a great deal physically is why I honestly will never be able to excel in this sport, and that is my reality...however...I am comfortable and happy with my playing ability. I am not in it to make 1 dime, else I would of quit this game and taken up tiddly winks years ago. I am in it because I enjoy it. I enjoy the lore of the old hustlers and their stories of living on the road. They almost seem like superheroes, but nowadays everyone wants to be them. It just can't happen is the thing. Things are just too expensive and there are just too many of us in the gene pool that don't want to piss away our money to support some kid's gambling addiction. I enjoy the smell of a smokey pool room, not so much the smoke. I enjoy most the sound of the ball as it hits the back of the pocket at whatever speed I make the ball. That is what pushes me to play pool. For all the THOUSANDS of dollars I have invested in my hobby, I may have made 100 bucks. Why would I keep doing it for all the heartache the game has given me? I sometimes stop and ask myself the same question...and then...I see a cue...or a read an article about a rising pool player...or I watch a match...and then I am hooked all over again.

And from this post I don't care if you respect me or hate me even more...or Mike bans me altogether. This is my perception and opinion of the game. It will never change until I see a change in the sport.

Thank you,
Shorty
 
jsp said:
Hi Blackjack. I read your post three times, and I really couldn't find an explanation as to why you think the IPT won't work. You say that it won't work, but you give no concrete reasons as to why. To the average pool fan, we're just all excited that a tour finally found a way to gather the best of the best into one tour. When have we ever experienced a pool tournament with a list of players such as the IPT's King of the Hill? Not in my lifetime, or anyone else's lifetime for that matter. You may be right about the IPT...it may fall flat on its face in a year or two. But you can't argue the excitement it's bringing to the industry. Even if it does fail in the long term, i think it's better than nothing.

I will give my opinion not why it won't work, but can't work. They have not shown anything that even resembles a viable business plan. It can't work unless it is self supporting and profitable. Him just underwriting all this prize money is a fantasy. There is no reason for him or anyone to do it. He may, for whatever reason, actually put on a few tournaments but for anyone to think it will continue as a money losing write off if that is his motive is nuts. He may change his mind before the first tournament, the whole thing hinges on a whim. I know a guy who likes pool quite a bit. Others on here may know him as well. He is not a millionaire, or Billionaire but a multi billionaire. He is Roger King, (Do a google search) who owns the Oprah show, Wheel of Fortune and King world productions. He has never shown any interest in promoting pool because it will not make any money, not even self supporting. Could Roger sponsor a tour out of his pocket, of course, but you don't see him doing it, or anyone else with money for that matter no matter how big a fan they are. Now this guy comes along and pretends he is a pool promoter, where is all this money to come from?
 
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money

Simple fact, money excites public interest. The yearling auction at Keeneland was televised for many years because many people watched it. Not much more boring than a livestock auction if you aren't buying or selling. The only real fascination was to see huge sums of money paid for foals and yearlings that might not be worth a dime or might be the next Secretariat.

Likewise, pool needs money in it to get the general public's attention and for the most part it needs the general public's attention to get money from sponsors. This seems to be a Catch-22 situation. A very rich sugar daddy or group of investors that would step in and gamble on future income from pool for a few years could solve this problem.

I am skeptical of the IPT deal but that isn't unusual, I'm pretty skeptical about anything that doesn't make sense on the face of it. However, six months from now we will know a lot more and to be honest I don't think that six months of the IPT will do the pool world great harm. I wish you luck in your efforts with organizing the pool world but for a sport to grow it has to have a starting point. It appears that professional pool currently is well below the starting point of a professional sport. It needs dollars from somewhere. Chances are that the start won't come from a snake oil salesman but I have seen longer shots come in. I'll await developments.

Hu
 
Greed?

Pool Players? Greed?

That is like saying that the starving 3rd Worlders rioting around the Care Helicopter are greedy for food.

WTF?
 
Shorty said:
The problem I see with pool players day in and day out is greed. They see dollar signs, and they go for it. Many and I repeat MANY pool players do not realize no matter how they want to slice it, a person still has to WORK for money.
Would you say that PRO Football, basketball, baseball, golf, & tennis players, etc do or do not "work"?

Shorty said:
There are too many seeking the quick buck or fast hustle to make a spare hundred or two.
Do you feel this way about semi pro players on farm teams such as single, double, & triple A baseball players, or paid semi pro football players?

Shorty said:
It is no longer a sport, but a constant hustle from one player to the next. And I don't mean just with pool players, it also is this way among some cuemakers and most things revolving around the game of pool.
Those that are gifted with the talent to play good pool or make beautiful cues are trying to make a living with the talent they were given. Much like any other pro athelete, race car driver, musician, writer, painter.... Maybe if people like Mackey hadn't done the sport of pool such a horrible disservice, pro pool players might be considered as any other pro athelete.

Shorty said:
I am a horrible pool player according to most evidently, but I enjoy the game as a hobby. I never once claimed to be God's gift to pool. It does not put food on my table nor a roof over my head. It is a game, I take it serious yes, but it is still just a game.
I used to be pretty good at softball. I played it as a hobby because I didn't have what it took to be pro & play on an olympic team. There are millions of men & women that love to play baseball/softball/tennis/golf, etc... they play on leagues because they weren't blessed with the talent to be pro's. As a hobby, they play for the fun of it and the love of the game. Do you think Emmit Smith should've said "I love to play football, & I'm pretty good at it, but football is a game...it's a hobby... I shouldn't be unrealistic & try to make a living out of playing it, I should go get a "real job" & work for a living."?

Shorty said:
I have another profession as my job. If you want to have pool as a profession, then you need to carry yourself and act like a professional, not some two bit sleeze ball trying to hustle a nickel off someone. You work at a profession. You dedicate your life to it, both emotionally and physically. .
The people with the talent to be pro pool players use pool as their "job" and they're trying to make a profession out of it. There are some sleeze ball pool players out there, but have you taken a look at the guys on the UPA tour that are trying to make a profession out of the sport? You'll never see Johnny Archer, Tony Robles, Shawn Putnam, or most of the UPA guys in anything other than nice, respectable clothing, carrying themselves in a way other than professional when they're at any pool related event. They have dedicated their lives both emotionally, physically, and FINANCIALLY in order to be the cream of the crop in their profession.

Shorty said:
I lack a great deal physically is why I honestly will never be able to excel in this sport, and that is my reality...however...I am comfortable and happy with my playing ability.
The folks out there on the men's & women's pro tours are not lacking physically...can & have excelled in this sport....they're happy having the playing ability to be pro and sad that they're not compensated as other pro atheletes.... that's their reality.

Shorty said:
I am not in it to make 1 dime, else I would of quit this game and taken up tiddly winks years ago. I am in it because I enjoy it.
Can you say the same for the job that you get out of bed to go to everyday? pro players get out of bed everyday going to a "job" in hopes that they'll get paid. Pro football players don't have to get out of bed & they get paid.

Shorty said:
I enjoy the lore of the old hustlers and their stories of living on the road. They almost seem like superheroes, but nowadays everyone wants to be them. It just can't happen is the thing. Things are just too expensive and there are just too many of us in the gene pool that don't want to piss away our money to support some kid's gambling addiction.
Show me a little boy that doesn't think Terrel Owens or Dale Earnhart Jr isn't a superhero...show me a kid that doesn't want to be just like one of them or any other paid pro athelete they see on tv playing a hobby every weekend. I bet you spend your money on something sports related... a football jersey, nascar blanket.... Guess what...half of the Dallas Cowboys football players from the 90's were busted for drugs, hookers, & beating their wives. Other pro atheletes have been busted for things worse than gambling in the pool hall trying to make a living.... Leon Lett, Michael Irvine, Daryl Strawberry, Greg Norman, Tony Stewart....

Shorty said:
I agree with Blackjack 100%.
BlackJack played his heart out to be a pro player and has fought endlessly to bring the game to a higher level. For someone that agree's with him 100%... your whole post was a slap in his face. You just pissed on everything he's tried to do over the yrs.

Shorty said:
This is my perception and opinion of the game. It will never change until I see a change in the sport.
As long as there's people like you refusing to give it a chance & let it change... it won't have a chance to change.

Shorty said:
And from this post I don't care if you respect me or hate me even more...or Mike bans me altogether.
ENOUGH with the drama already!!! I wasn't here for whatever it was that happend the other week but it seems like all I ever see you saying anymore is you don't care if your posts make people mad, & you don't care if Mike bans you, don't ask my opinion if you don't want it.... stop already. Mike isn't going to ban you for posting an opinon so long as it's not a personal attack on a certain person(s) and/or riddled with the foulest language on earth.
 
Oy!!! Enough already!!!

Allow me to recount a small example of why I feel this may just work...

I'm involved in running a minor pool tour in an insignificant country called Scotland. It's just above England and to the right of Ireland.

Last year I suggested that we run a series of events culminating in the eventual winner going to the US Open, all expences paid ($500 entry, hotel and flights). Imagine the ridicule I faced.. "Aye right Martin, no-one will enter that" or "You'll never get enough players to pay the winner" or, in fact, "Naebody will pay $50 to enter a tournament that doesn't pay out any money".

I was so convinced of the potential to encourage the game in the small province of Scotland that I was willing to cover any shortfall out of my own pocket in order to ensure that we could send a player to the coveted US Open.

Guess what???

I got the players. I got the entry fees. I filled the qualifiers. And, I sent a guy over (Pat Holtz) and... I wasn't out of pocket.

And you know what? There's now a whole bunch of guys in Scotchland with a rejuvinated interest in pool (particularly 9-ball) who weren't there before.

I don't know who Kevin Trudeau is. But I do know that before he was a media mogul, he was a pool fanatic (like me). And maybe, just maybe his intentions are genuine.

If anybody knows otherwise (and I do mean KNOWS) then please let us all know.

Otherwise, you can say 'I told you so' when the check bounces at the 'King of the Hill' in November.

BS
 
Kudos to You, Blue Suede!

You risked your money where your heart and mouth were and it worked! My hat is off to you. Where did you say that little country was again? Seems like I may have heard of it somewhere before. :D

Hu



Blue_Suede said:
Oy!!! Enough already!!!

Allow me to recount a small example of why I feel this may just work...

I'm involved in running a minor pool tour in an insignificant country called Scotland. It's just above England and to the right of Ireland.

Last year I suggested that we run a series of events culminating in the eventual winner going to the US Open, all expences paid ($500 entry, hotel and flights). Imagine the ridicule I faced.. "Aye right Martin, no-one will enter that" or "You'll never get enough players to pay the winner" or, in fact, "Naebody will pay $50 to enter a tournament that doesn't pay out any money".

I was so convinced of the potential to encourage the game in the small province of Scotland that I was willing to cover any shortfall out of my own pocket in order to ensure that we could send a player to the coveted US Open.

Guess what???

I got the players. I got the entry fees. I filled the qualifiers. And, I sent a guy over (Pat Holtz) and... I wasn't out of pocket.

And you know what? There's now a whole bunch of guys in Scotchland with a rejuvinated interest in pool (particularly 9-ball) who weren't there before.

I don't know who Kevin Trudeau is. But I do know that before he was a media mogul, he was a pool fanatic (like me). And maybe, just maybe his intentions are genuine.

If anybody knows otherwise (and I do mean KNOWS) then please let us all know.

Otherwise, you can say 'I told you so' when the check bounces at the 'King of the Hill' in November.

BS
 
ccn7 said:
hi BJ i read all your stuff and enjoy you very much so glad you have started posting again im a bit confused as to some names you mentioned allen charlie and frank as do gooders but yet mike listed as a sellout,they are listed as players in the the IPT tour this would give me the feeling they dont see things the same as you and have gone for the money also, could you please clear this up .i respect you very much and almost think i know where you coming from. its from the heart i know.i think you have shown that money can make people act so differently than we could never know.

Floyd,
I don't classify anyone as "a do gooder". I have respect for the men I mentioned in the way they have tirelessly worked for the betterment of our sport. My problem with Mike is simple. We are trying to get people like Kevin Trudeau OUT of our sport. How dare he drag someone like this into the picture
after everything that Men's Professional Pool has been through over the last 10-12 years - and may I remind everybody that Mike has been nowhere to be found during that time period.

I have been very critical of Charlie Williams publicly and privately, but Charlie knows I have the utmost respect for his dedication and his determination. Allen Hopkins would be great in any leadership role while we advance our sport because of his proven track record, the respect he has from the players, and his undying love for this game. Frank Alvarez may not be the most popular person in pool, but he is definitely one of the most professional people you will ever meet. He is extremely dedicated, works his butt off in the trenches tying together the loose ends that nobody hears about. There is much more to Frank than what was portrayed in the Danny Harriman situation. Have those men made mistakes in the past? Of course. They do receive a lot of criticism and those that dish it out never have any solutions - just criticism. There are many players out there that are waiting for the road to be paved by others so that they may enjoy a smooth ride. They are not willing to do anything besides chasing money. That's fine and dandy, but remember - if we keep doing what we're doing, we're going to keep getting what we are getting. Kevin Trudeau pops in out of Infomercial-Land and all of a sudden he's the Messiah of professional pool because he's tossing money around. That sounds just as ridiculous as Camel marketing our sport with posters of Joe Camel instead of pool players. They had so much faith in our tour and our players that they were all substituted with a chain smoking cartoon camel.

joepoolplayer.jpg


At the time we were ecstatic over this. People acted as if we had finally hit the big time. We had marketing, exposure, promises, people in nice suits we'd never seen before... it was all garbage. All these years later we can look back and see what fools we were for allowing that deal to go down. In the aftermath of all that - I fail to see why some people wouldn't be leary when a person of Kevin Trudeau's credibility comes in to "improve our sport." We also have the players that could care less. While the IPT exists, they will try to get as much out of it as they can, and when it folds they'll just sit back and wait for something else to come along. This is the destructive cycle that our sport is trapped in, yet we all sit around wondering why pool gets no exposure, no money, and no interest from the media. When you look at it honestly you'll see why.

Mr. Vader,
If you know where Mackey is, let's go golfing. You and I have discussed this at great length privately and you know how I feel about this from every angle. Until we unite and put the right people in the right positions we will continue to get nowhere.

Celtic,
I am a pool player. I have dedicated my heart and my soul to this game for many years. Recenetly I have lost the ability to walk. Though my body is no longer able to play this game at any level, my love for this game will shine through in my efforts to advance this sport towards something we can all be proud of. Kevin Trudeau comes into pool with baggage. Alarming baggage. He offers nothing but a temporary quick fix that is designed to soothe his need for self promotion. The people that I alluded to are the people that criticize yet do nothing to get involved to improve the game of pool. Ask anybody that has seen me at any event and they will tell you that I never stop moving and I never stop talking to players, the media, or sponsors. I work very hard and I fund my trips to these events out of my own pocket. I'm not on anybody's payroll. From my wheelchair I work 18 hour days contacting players, media reps, tour directors, while at the same time coaching players. I'm involved as much as I can be with limited physical abilities. I am a person of action. I don't post criticisms without getting out in the trenches and doing my share to improve the sport. I'm sorry that you see that as hypocritical.
 
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Blackjack said:
I'm sorry that you see that as hypocritical.

What I see as hypocritical is that you tell people that they should not critisize the Allen Hopkins (former road player, hustler), CJ Wileys (See Allen Hopkins), and Frank Alvarez of the sport because they are out there trying to do their best to improve this sport yet you will not give KT this same respect.

I dont know if you have read about KT at all with regards to his past in pool but this guy loves the game, enough that he paid Mike Sigel top dollar for pool lessons, that is how they met. KT was and still is a amature that loves this game. I am pretty sure that when he and Mike started to also become good friends Kevin likely wanted to see his friend back in the sport doing what he really should be doing, playing professional pool and NOT wasting all his talent by instead building cues. If you are Kevin, a multi billionaire and your best friend that you have known for the past year, a former pool player, tells you he is not going to ever play professional pool again because the sport does not pay it's stars enough to make a decent living what do you do? Well, Kevin decided that since he has the means to improve this situation that he would do something to help not only his retired pool playing friend, but every other top pool player out there that is thinking about taking up poker and quitting their first calling. He got together with his buddy and decided to make a professional pool tour, he changed up the rules, changed the game, and he is putting up a ton of money to attempt to make it work. He is TRYING, but he is getting grilled by many people on the internet and fans that dont want to give him a chance.

What do you expect him to do? Are you mad at Kevin Trudeau because he got involved in pool at all? Do you think that he somehow did not have the right to attempt to make the sport better and maybe help out his friend who has been telling him for years how hard it was to be a pro pool player due to the lack of money? Are you mad that he did not involve all those people that are in fact at least somewhat to blame for the sport going nowhere do to poor marketing, promotion, and presentation? If I were him I would have done it alone too, he clearly saw what alot of us saw long before the IPT, that the people in charge of the sport were simply doing it wrong.

I am happy to see pool has a chance to come about. It is not a sure thing, but it is a chance, it gives alot of us, fans and players alike something that we have not had in a long long time, HOPE. The mid 1980's was a HUGE chance for pool to take off, the sport got a massive amount of publicity due to a little film with Paul Newman and Tom Cruise. That chance was squandered by those in charge, they missed the boat and we ALL lost out. Some of us amature pool players at 15 and 16 years old were forced to make a choice, pro pool, or university. It was not a hard choice in the early 90's after the sport was crushed by promoters that had no clue how to garner interest and present the sport in a exciting fashion.

I am glad there may be a chance that a George San Souci will actually start playing pool again. I am happy to see a tour that may keep Alex Pagulayan from turning into a poker player and removing one of the most exciting pool players from this sport and further crushing its chances of gaining a following. I dont want to see another huge talent like Tang Hoa simply quit playing pool and start playing poker because pool does not put food on his plate. How were we supposed to move forward in this sport when all the best players are quiting and moving onto other things, Sigel included.

We were going backwards before this, our sport was dying Blackjack. I see alot of people now jumping up to the plate and trying to promote the sport and improve the promotion. Most of it coincides with the formation of the IPT as a true threat to the other organizations. Only now are they really putting in their 110% and giving it their all to compete. Well where were they last year? Where were they in the late 1980's? Where were they when Sigel quit because the sport was not profitable as the #1 pool player in the world? Where were they when Tang decided to put away his cues? What about San Souci?

I dont really see how we have anything to lose with the IPT. We lost ALOT before the IPT. We lost momentum, we lost sponserships, we lost top pro pool players to poker and cue making, pool in America lost its pro tour for cripe sakes. Where were all these hard working people when we were losing everything? If they were here trying to help then they were failing miserably. That is tough, but we need something to actually work, we need someone in this sport who can actually succeed because all we have ever had are failures and losses from everyone that ever stepped up to the plate.

And what has Kevin ever done against this sport? Absolutly nothing. You talk of past reputations and actions, well alot of people in pool have shady pasts. Some are valuable members of this forum, some are top professional players of the highest calibre in both playing ability and character. I dont think we should be digging up the past of anyone and pulling out the tar and feathers. Lets give Kevin Trudeau, a fan of pool, a amature player who clearly loves this game and wanted to see Sigel be able to play professional pool again, a chance. Can we just do that? Or are you still determined to tar and feather him before you even give him a chance to prove himself one way or the other?
 
Celtic said:
If you are Kevin, a multi billionaire
Are you kidding, He had a judjment against him last year and didn't have the money and they took his house. Do some reading about this guy.
 
macguy said:
Are you kidding, He had a judjment against him last year and didn't have the money and they took his house. Do some reading about this guy.

I have done quite alot of reading about him. Incuding reading his comments on BD where he stated he has about $450,000,000 cash to play with for this tour and is worth about 2 billion including investments.

By all means, show me where you read he lost his house. Links to such claims are always better then just stating it, see Chicken Little.
 
Celtic said:
I have done quite alot of reading about him. Incuding reading his comments on BD where he stated he has about $450,000,000 cash to play with for this tour and is worth about 2 billion including investments.

By all means, show me where you read he lost his house. Links to such claims are always better then just stating it, see Chicken Little.

I am sorry I was wrong he also lost his car along with a house.
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/09/trudeaucoral.htm

Michael Jackson also said in an interview how he was worth $500,000,000. while at the same time he was $300,000,000. in debt. Why would you believe the BS a guy like KT would weave? His life is a lie it's his stock and trade. He may be somewhat back in the chips for a while now with the book he sells through informicals that got him around some of the laws that prevented him from selling on TV. But the costs of the endless commercials along with publishing costs, book store discounts like 55% + their percent along with huge book returns and other expenses eat at that money pretty quick. Add to that all the negative buzz on the book that I am sure have knocked down the original sales to a fraction of what they were till they go to nothing and he will be going busted again till he comes up with a new scam. I know people like him, that are all hype and false facade, behind the smoke and mirrors you discover they have very little, it's all a front. I would say there are people on this board who could buy and sell that guy in reality.
 
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Blackjack said:
I did not post that to debate it or to solve all the problems with the sport on an internet forum thread. If you are motivated to help change the game and steer it in the right direction, please give me a call. It is not my intention to publicly tear apart the IPT and their practices. I see nothing new being offered. I see the mice following the Pied Piper once again. Yes it is bringing excitement, but we don't need excitement, we need organization and we need unity. This tour does absolutely NOTHING for the industry, or the game - long term. I cannot stop players for from supporting this tour or playing on this tour. That is not my intention. My point is, given Mr. Trudeau's track record I am not so trusting of his judgment or his business practices, nor do I feel comfortable with him ascending to the throne to control the fate of professional pool. You may feel comfortable. I don't and neither do many people that are quietly thinking the same things that I brought up in my initial post. Jennie can can write her buzz-buster, that's fine. I have a lot of respect for her and Keith, yet I completely disagree with her about her opinion of Mr. Trudeau. That's fine. All I am saying, is that pool would be smart to have a back-up plan in case this doesn't work out (and believe me, it won't). If we don't do something to take back control, we'll be caught with our pants around our ankles again like we did when the MPBT went down in flames. That wasn't fun. We lost the PCA and trhe MPBT back to back and in the end we were left with nothing. All these years later, we have even less to work with. This has been done before. Instead of the money going into the prize fund, put it into organization and marketing our sport. That is where the money needs to go, not in the pockets of people who are just excited about a big payday. Big paydays are great. But answer me this... how is this tour planning on making up the cost to put on these events? Is Mr. Trudeau just a nice guy that plans on tossing money into all of these tournaments because he likes us? How long do you think that will last? Is he planning on turning a profit? If so how? These are the questions none of the IPT supporters that I've talked to have answers for. They just care that the money is there right now and they want to get their hands on some of it. We've gone down this road before. When Camel realized that they were losing money with professional pool, they dumped us - quick. We didn't have a back up plan. We still have not recovered from that. You may have read about it, but some of us lived through all of that. It hasn't been fun.

So I say again, if you are a person that believes that this must change, give me a call. I'd be more than happy to work with whoever cares about pool, not the money.

It's quite clear what his business model is, I don't think you've been paying attention if you haven't worked it out.

What makes KT's efforts potentially different to past attempt is his experience in using media to market products. If he produces good content and utilises media wisely he can produce millions in exposure (marketing) value for his nutritional products.

I think you owe us some insights into how 'your' system would work better? Do you have any case studies to support your methodology. Which successful sports are you modeling your ideas on. Surely not Poker or WWE or Boxing. What about PGA or WTA?

Money won't make the sport successful, but it sure could help if used wisely.

I'd like to see you explain your reasons for not supporting the IPT with something more concrete. To be frank, what you are saying comes across as 'My Way or the Highway'.

The IPT could perhaps benefit greatly by synergizing itself with local, regional, state and national tours. Perhaps your efforts would be better spent offering them such possibilities.
 
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