Bonus Ball is Alive and will be kicking ...

[(((Satori)))]

All these comparisons to facebook, microsoft etc...

Those companies blew up because they found an untapped niche and milked it.
What's pool's untapped niche? Is there anyone out there who wants to watch pool but can't?

There's thousands of hours of free footage on youtube and some of it like BClub is fairly
professionally produced. Or if you want something more timely, you can pay for accustats
and TAR matches. There are several free and cheap streams.

I know they are not obligated to share their business plan with anyone, but whatever it is..
it's gotta hinge on getting people to watch pool (and pay for it) who otherwise can't do so.
Does anyone here feel like "man, I wish I had some pool to watch, but there's just nothing on"?

The only thing I feel like I want to see, but cannot see often enough, is seeing pros play in person.
And even that wish isn't that hard to fulfill. Got to do it last weekend, at no charge.

To me, that's the fundamental flaw, even if you execute very well (like recent TAR matches)
there just aren't that many customers starved for the product they're looking to sell.

There is a reason that mma fans pay for the UFC when they can watch fighters who are just as good in other organizations play the same sport for free. If you don't believe that there are fighters just as good then you have bought into the hype or just not aware.

Take this as an example, when fighters dispute with Dana over pay and move on to fight for other organizations their marketability takes a plunge. The UFC is the best at generating excitement for a fight and presenting the sport to the fans like no other can.

Bonus ball has the potential to generate excitement for pool that is not currently here. The question of, "Is there anyone out there who wants to watch pool but can't?" Is an irrelevant question imo.

 

[JB Cases]

Ill let you out of ours for $80

Nope. But you can buy out for $100 right now and you don't have to sweat it anymore.

 

[JB Cases]

Which do you think BB compares to more - a lemonade stand or Facebook?

After you give your honest answer, I rest my case.

Somewhere in between. It doesn't matter, it's not your money is my point. Yes bashing is free and entertaining but at the end of the day all your speculation and analysis doesn't mean anything to the people who are invested.

At least I don't think that they are looking at AZB for answers at this point. If so then they are probably doomed.

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

Yep !

Thanks for the lemonade stand example. Of course if the money is all gone then a business closes.

My point was and is that many startups operate for YEARS without any or very little actual revenue while they are working on how to monetize their product.

Facebook, founded in April 2004, ran with losses and about 750 million in investment until September 2009 when it finally started turning a profit. Peter Thiel was in teh first round of investment, got 10% of FB for $500,000.

Microsoft bought 1.6% for $240 MILLION a few years later.

Currently FB is worth about $67 Billion give or take a few. How does that initial $500,000 investment for 10% look now?

Point being that no one knows what the deal is. For all we know Larry is close to closing a deal to sell 40 episodes of Bonus Ball to the Travel Channel for $20 million. Who knows? I mean I know it's fun to speculate and call people whom you don't know idiots and losers and scammers (not saying you said this Steve) and put them down in ever malicious was possible but at the end of the day you can only be right or wrong about your speculations and whichever that is doesn't mean a thing.

I was wrong, shrug shoulders and move on. I was right yippie I am an oracle. Ok, tell me the lottery numbers please.

You all act like it's some sort of big deal when it's not. Trudeau's thing was actually a big deal. $350,000, $500,000 purses, MILLIONS of dollars in play and promised. That's life changing money for a lot of people. He wanted sincerely to take over pro pool worldwide and have the best 150 players on the planet locked up and the next 1000 paying handsomely trying to get in. And the thing is that IF Truedeau would have really bankrolled it for two full years he might have pulled it off. He might have gotten it on TV, found someone to sell it to, and set the IPT on a good path.

That was the sort of venture that it was worth getting super mad about when it imploded.

Bonus Ball not so much in my opinion. So the pros moved to Vegas. Who cares? They move around all the time. They are adults capable of making their own decisions. if BB fails and they miss a few paychecks then so what? Pick up your life and move on because it's not like they have had much better going for them if BB didn't exist.

Sure they have the same tournaments, same circuit, rising expenses and lower prize money year on year. Maybe Barry will pay out this year maybe he won't....

So why don't we all stop ragging on Bonus Ball for a while and see if they make it. Let it run without the constant state of putting it down.

Honestly what could it hurt to withold the negativity for the rest of the year and just enjoy the game? I mean that wouldn't be as much fun, yin/yang and all that but who knows, maybe just maybe it would be really freaking cool if some executive were cruising around and landed on AZ and instead of forty threads knocking BB and the investors there were five positive threads about it. There is so much of the what's wrong with pool attitude here and maybe we should take a little ownership of what's wrong with pool since it seems sometimes that more than 50% of us can't wait to knock and strangle the baby just because we don't like how it looks.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong and frequently am but I feel much happier with a positive outlook on life than a negative one.

Well said sir, I couldn't agree more !

 

[vagabond]

Ravi - aren't you the one that told all of us months ago that the cameras in the BB Arena were $300K a piece. Are you getting your info from the same source now?

QUOTE]

Actually I remember saying that all that camera stuff was bought for 800K. That info was from Horses mouth.

The information I have been posting on this thread is not from Horse`s mouth but it is from a Pro player playing in the Bonus Ball.

All I am trying to do is to support a new venture in Pool and my interest is in Pool but not in the infighting and drama.

 

[rivercitysledge]

havent read up dont know the status prolly got the worst of it as usual but id like to make 1 $5000 bet ALL bonus ball players get paid in full...

 

[Hungarian]

When people say "I want an honest discussion" or "I want an honest answer" they really mean you must agree with me and I will relent.

Give it a rest Watchez. We all know where you stand on BB. Many people do not agree with you.

You've been spewing venom for months. Don't you think it's time to have some peace?

Please give me you honest answer please.

Which do you think BB compares to more - a lemonade stand or Facebook?

After you give your honest answer, I rest my case.

Somewhere in between. It doesn't matter, it's not your money is my point. Yes bashing is free and entertaining but at the end of the day all your speculation and analysis doesn't mean anything to the people who are invested.

At least I don't think that they are looking at AZB for answers at this point. If so then they are probably doomed.

 

[CreeDo]

There is a reason that mma fans pay for the UFC when they can watch fighters who are just as good in other organizations play the same sport for free. If you don't believe that there are fighters just as good then you have bought into the hype or just not aware. [snip]Bonus ball has the potential to generate excitement for pool that is not currently here. The question of, "Is there anyone out there who wants to watch pool but can't?" Is an irrelevant question imo.

OK, the better question is, "Is there anyone who could watch pool, but won't because it's too boring?"
...I'm sure there is.

It seems to me that UFC is inherently easy to build up excitement and promote.
Two guys can talk trash on camera and then literally beat each other up.

There's only so much you can do with a slow, methodical game that looks easy
to the casual observer. I'd like to think there's a big untapped market
and if you just use enough fog machines, player interviews, and decorative girls then viewership
will double or triple. Not holding my breath though.

 

[JB Cases]

OK, the better question is, "Is there anyone who could watch pool, but won't because it's too boring?"
...I'm sure there is.

It seems to me that UFC is inherently easy to build up excitement and promote.
Two guys can talk trash on camera and then literally beat each other up.

There's only so much you can do with a slow, methodical game that looks easy
to the casual observer. I'd like to think there's a big untapped market
and if you just use enough fog machines, player interviews, and decorative girls then viewership
will double or triple. Not holding my breath though.

Well, fwiw the Fats/Mosconi challenges were some of the highest rated shows ABC ever did on Wide World of Sports.

 

[(((Satori)))]

OK, the better question is, "Is there anyone who could watch pool, but won't because it's too boring?"
...I'm sure there is.

It seems to me that UFC is inherently easy to build up excitement and promote.
Two guys can talk trash on camera and then literally beat each other up.

There's only so much you can do with a slow, methodical game that looks easy
to the casual observer. I'd like to think there's a big untapped market
and if you just use enough fog machines, player interviews, and decorative girls then viewership
will double or triple. Not holding my breath though.

There are a lot of mma organizations that cant seem to generate excitement or interest from the fans.

You might be right about pool and it's marketability but I don't think that pool has to be slow, boring, methodical and easy looking. Look at Mosconi Cup as an example. I truly believe that Bonus ball has features that could even outdo the Mosconi Cup as far as excitement goes. I also believe there is a market to watch and follow Bonus Ball if it is properly promoted.

Who knows who is right. I'm just glad that the pros have a chance at success.

 

[JB Cases]

I gotta say that with a 24 second shot clock BB is not slow. But honestly I can't deal with 8 30 point games and all the rules. Oh my god the freaking rules. continuation, abbreviation, the ball counts like this but not like that...I just tune it all out and watch the run outs. In BB there are defintely a lot of great outs and great shotmaking.

I like to hear the players back and forth, like to see the different personalities, and frankly enjoy the team aspect of it, especially when the team appears to be excited about being there and is pumped up to win.

Shit while I am on this subject WHY NOT HAVE professional teams competing in the BCAPL?

We did a promotion one year where for $100 teams could be in a raffle to play the Fury Pro Team. If they won each player got a $200 cue and case set and if they lost each player got a $100 cue/case set. So we ran this twice and the amateur teams LOVED playing the pros in their league format. We had such a great time it remains one of the best memories of my life.

 

[Diamond69]

Well, fwiw the Fats/Mosconi challenges were some of the highest rated shows ABC ever did on Wide World of Sports.

And if I remember correctly (I was rather young)...

1. There was a good guy (Mosconi) and a bad guy (Fats).
2. There was a lot of banter back and forth. Trash talk and such.
3. Here is where my memory may fail me, but I don't recall much in the way of safeties. There were many 2 way shots that could qualify as safe, but not bunting and hiding (that I recall).

As a result of #3, there were a lot of great shots. IMO, seeing great shots is more memorable than the winner of a tournament. There is a thread on here about Carlo Biado's shot in the finals of the Hard Times tourney. People started talking about other great shots (Corey's draw, Efren's Z-kick, etc)

Don't get me wrong, I know safe's are here to stay in pool. And many of them require as much skill or more than the great offensive shots. But for the average viewer, the great offensive shot gets recognized.

I've played safeties of the more complex nature, and teammates just thought I missed the ball. These teammates play pool, but would not know who SVB, Efren, or any others are.

 

[Hungarian]

I get why the conservative, shrewd business types say BB is a bad business model. It's like 'field of dreams', and all of your experiences and training tell you that you never 'build it and they will come'. Sound business sense tells you that organic, grass roots start up's are to be ramped up over time just like Accu-Stats, TAR and many other successful organizations have done in the past. You NEVER accept a day-to-day loss in profit for a blue sky dream. All business decisions have to make tangible business sense. You never be wasteful.

I understand why these folks are BB detractors since it has an impact on their business, especially scheduling.

What I don't understand is why any non-business concern fan would ever be a detractor?

I'm a creative dreamer, and in my department it's required to do my work. But you have to balance dreams with reality. Sometimes this is referred to as intelligent risk taking. You first have to decide if you are going to dip your toe in the water or dive in. And how far you go with blue sky is an indication of how much of a risk taker you are.

Many pool players live in a constant dream state and so it's easy to pitch them into just about anything as long as your idea agrees with their dream. They are gamblers and risk takers. And they see honor and give respect to a man willing to take a large financial risk on his dream of bonus ball.

So I ask this to all the business folks who have been such staunch detractors, other than your schedules, which it sounds like BB is addressing, do you have any other complaints?

Those who do not have a business issue need not reply..

 

[Black-Balled]

And ... IMO, seeing great shots is more memorable than the winner of a tournament. ...

That is what I was really hoping to see more of, the player's invention of shots/ moves, similar to the game-specific shots in the Eddie Robin books on 1p.

I haven't really noticed any yet.

 

[watchez]

When people say "I want an honest discussion" or "I want an honest answer" they really mean you must agree with me and I will relent.

Give it a rest Watchez. We all know where you stand on BB. Many people do not agree with you.

You've been spewing venom for months. Don't you think it's time to have some peace?

Please give me you honest answer please.

Not til BB spills out what this great master plan is that has so far failed on every level.

And when JB answers that BB is somewhere in between a lemonade stand and Facebook in reference to it's economic power, that is beyond ridiculious. Try telling your wife that her looks are somewhere between Sandra Bernhard and Megan Fox.

I get why the conservative, shrewd business types say BB is a bad business model. It's like 'field of dreams', and all of your experiences and training tell you that you never 'build it and they will come'. Sound business sense tells you that organic, grass roots start up's are to be ramped up over time just like Accu-Stats, TAR and many other successful organizations have done in the past. You NEVER accept a day-to-day loss in profit for a blue sky dream. All business decisions have to make tangible business sense. You never be wasteful.

I understand why these folks are BB detractors since it has an impact on their business, especially scheduling.

What I don't understand is why any non-business concern fan would ever be a detractor?

I'm a creative dreamer, and in my department it's required to do my work. But you have to balance dreams with reality. Sometimes this is referred to as intelligent risk taking. You first have to decide if you are going to dip your toe in the water or dive in. And how far you go with blue sky is an indication of how much of a risk taker you are.

Many pool players live in a constant dream state and so it's easy to pitch them into just about anything as long as your idea agrees with their dream. They are gamblers and risk takers. And they see honor and give respect to a man willing to take a large financial risk on his dream of bonus ball.

So I ask this to all the business folks who have been such staunch detractors, other than your schedules, which it sounds like BB is addressing, do you have any other complaints?

Those who do not have a business issue need not reply..

Complaints would be lying about their viewership numbers, portraying there is some unknown magical business formula that doesn't include public perception or viewership, oh and not paying the players.

And you don't have to be a conservative, shrewd business type to understand that if you have $50K a week in expenses (and that doesn't even include the cost of popcorn) and your income is $760 a week, you better have deep pockets BEFORE you start to sustain or why even bother with such an investment in futility in the first place.

 

[Nostroke]

BTW-where on God's earth would they get 'new investors' to jump in 24 hrs after they collapsed in the first few weeks? Where where where?

Could the new guys have done ANY due diligence in that time -ANY?

 

[cleary]

I understand why these folks are BB detractors since it has an impact on their business, especially scheduling.

What I don't understand is why any non-business concern fan would ever be a detractor?

I have nothing to gain or lose from bonus ball. I don't make a living in pool and what very little money that I have made in pool, none of it would be helped or hurt by bonus ball. I am friends with Justin at TAR but I don't see bonusball really hurting him... actually it could help with all of those players close by.

I simply think the game is corny and the jerseys look ridiculous. Aside from that, I'm all for the players getting paid, I just have no desire to watch it. I think many others feel the same way.

Aside from how I feel about the game being cheesy, just dollars and sense wise, it doesn't add up. That's really all I've really said all along. And that's not hating, it's being realistic.

 

[Put_upor_shutup]

I have nothing to gain or lose from bonus ball. I don't make a living in pool and what very little money that I have made in pool, none of it would be helped or hurt by bonus ball. I am friends with Justin at TAR but I don't see bonusball really hurting him... actually it could help with all of those players close by.

I simply think the game is corny and the jerseys look ridiculous. Aside from that, I'm all for the players getting paid, I just have no desire to watch it. I think many others feel the same way.

Aside from how I feel about the game being cheesy, just dollars and sense wise, it doesn't add up. That's really all I've really said all along. And that's not hating, it's being realistic.

with that being said...it blows no bonus ball cause i was draggin cleary to watch that shit on saturday..

 

[cleary]

with that being said...it blows no bonus ball cause i was draggin cleary to watch that shit on saturday..

With free popcorn, I would have been down.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

where on God's earth would they get 'new investors' to jump in 24 hrs after they collapsed in the first few weeks? Where where where?

Try China. I hear there's a chump over there who's willing to invest -- err, part with his money. :grin: