Bonus Ball starts May 30th

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... WEEK 3
Sunday 16th is the Players' meeting for Ultimate 10-Ball.
Players could be excused I guess.

WEEK 8...
Ultimate 10-Ball is in Tunica right before the Southern Classic (same tables). I think both Week 4 and Week 5 of BB overlap the Southern Classic. The nine ball portion of the Southern Classic is a BCA-sanctioned event. The US Open 8-Ball and 10-Ball are also BCA ranking events.
 

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
the NBA couldnt get the books to take action IF they moved a team there, it was the Kings (I think) if the NBA cant get gaming to book action within the state of NV BB has ZERO chance,

I posted all this before, Boxing and MMA, are regulated by the NSAC Nevada State Altheltic Commission, its for contact sports, goes back to the mob days. they wanted live events customers could bet on, they got it.

well the mob is long gonee and the NSAC (google it) is still in full force and effect, so if we have the pool players in the ring then we could bet on them, but not on pool. aint gonna happen.

its well documented, and i only lived in Vegas 20+ years, i know what i'm talking about, i;ll eat a szamoti the day BB has their action on the "Board" at a book.


later

You should certainly know a ton more about this stuff then me Eric but the NBA, the basketball league? I made a bet at the sports book at the Wynn in their match agains the detroit pistons in 2007-2008 playoffs in the final game of that series. I remember it pretty clearly, the NBA was available to bet on in the sports book of the Wynn, a major casino at that time. Boatlods of people in the Riviera sports book were sweating that game when I won that bet.

From personal experienve I know at least some sports books do take NBA action, at least in the post-season/playoffs, at least they used to. I bet on the outright win and took the spread as it was an away game and the Celtics had yet to win in their entire playoff stretch and seemed due for an away win given they looked like they might win the championship.
 

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
You should certainly know a ton more about this stuff then me Eric but the NBA, the basketball league? I made a bet at the sports book at the Wynn in their match agains the detroit pistons in 2007-2008 playoffs in the final game of that series. I remember it pretty clearly, the NBA was available to bet on in the sports book of the Wynn, a major casino at that time. Boatlods of people in the Riviera sports book were sweating that game when I won that bet.

From personal experienve I know at least some sports books do take NBA action, at least in the post-season/playoffs, at least they used to. I bet on the outright win and took the spread as it was an away game and the Celtics had yet to win in their entire playoff stretch and seemed due for an away win given they looked like they might win the championship.

What are you talking about???? Is your comprehension really that bad?

Eric is saying that IF a NBA team had their HOME GAMES IN LAS VEGAS, they would not be bet on in a Las Vegas sportsbook.

I can let you know when UNLV was a top college basketball team, you could not bet on them in Vegas. You couldn't bet on them to even win the NCAA tournament.
 

jpparmentier

AZB Artist
Silver Member
Team AzB
Ultimate 10-Ball is in Tunica right before the Southern Classic (same tables). I think both Week 4 and Week 5 of BB overlap the Southern Classic. The nine ball portion of the Southern Classic is a BCA-sanctioned event. The US Open 8-Ball and 10-Ball are also BCA ranking events.

Sorry I missed the Southern Classic in my listing. You're absolutely right for the overlap.

What's going to be the result of all this if a majority of players chose to go to all these events and have their alternates play in the BB team ? This will surely lower the value of the ppv offering these nights. That's also a reason why I don't get this overlapping calendar mess.

We'll talk about all this again in september and assess the damages of the summer. I don't see why the current promoters would take more of a hit than the new comer. It's going to be interesting to say the least.
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
hmmm, if you're starting up a business like BB, what is the value of good relations with people already in the pool industry?

Well, of course that is not knowable, particularly without intimate knowledge of the business model in question. However, in a situation like this it is PR101 to establish good relations with those already in the business, as well as the gatekeepers and the opinion leaders in the community at large. And the reason is that those folks can help you, or hurt you, in ways that are obvious and in ways that you cannot begin to imagine.

This is some basic PR stuff, at which, to date, BB has been consistently poor at, IMO.

Lou Figueroa

I totally agree with this in a normal business situation. In the pool world....does anyone really have enough pull to hurt BB if they didn't work with them? Are there really any real leaders, opinion leaders, or gatekeepers? If so, I think pool would be a little more successful currently.

I mean really, how many people in pool really have enough clout or pull to hurt BB? They definitely won't be able to sway the players from not playing if BB is paying them consistently.

Again, normally I totally agree. I just don't think pool is developed enough where anyone currently has enough pull to matter. Could be wrong.

I also agree their PR has been a train wreck to say the least.
 
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SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
Sorry I missed the Southern Classic in my listing. You're absolutely right for the overlap.

What's going to be the result of all this if a majority of players chose to go to all these events and have their alternates play in the BB team ? This will surely lower the value of the ppv offering these nights. That's also a reason why I don't get this overlapping calendar mess.

We'll talk about all this again in september and assess the damages of the summer. I don't see why the current promoters would take more of a hit than the new comer. It's going to be interesting to say the least.

Not sure what written agreement BB has with players, but if I owned a business, raised millions, and was paying them consistently more than they were making, it would be in black and white they don't have the option to miss an event without explicit written permission from the owner/president or whoever was designated to make that decision.

There's too much money at risk to just let pool players decide if they want to show up or not. If you're going to run a "league" with this many "teams" and you don't have contracts in place that restrict players from arbitrarily not showing up, especially to play in conflicting events.....you've made a huge mistake. There are no guarantees spectators will watch or sponsors will pay, but you have to make 100% sure your "product" is going to show up and play.

History has shown using an "honor system" with pool players would be a very, very bad idea.

If there is no such agreement in place and players choose to play in the other events......BB and the players as a whole deserve whatever fallout happens due to mismanagement and lack of foresight.
 
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punter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
the NBA couldnt get the books to take action IF they moved a team there, it was the Kings (I think) if the NBA cant get gaming to book action within the state of NV BB has ZERO chance,

I posted all this before, Boxing and MMA, are regulated by the NSAC Nevada State Altheltic Commission, its for contact sports, goes back to the mob days. they wanted live events customers could bet on, they got it.

well the mob is long gonee and the NSAC (google it) is still in full force and effect, so if we have the pool players in the ring then we could bet on them, but not on pool. aint gonna happen.

its well documented, and i only lived in Vegas 20+ years, i know what i'm talking about, i;ll eat a szamoti the day BB has their action on the "Board" at a book.


later

Good post, Eric.
 

jpparmentier

AZB Artist
Silver Member
Team AzB
I mean really, how many people in pool really have enough clout or pull to hurt BB? They definitely won't be able to sway the players from not playing if BB is paying them consistently.

Well, BB didn't get Shane and Mike D. Who are probably going to cash a lot between all of the events we listed, plus a few regional tours.

I agree that the BB income would be nice for the players, but it would be better to have it on top of the other tournaments.

I can't see a reason to turn down two $25k added tournaments such as the US Opens in the same week in Vegas, to play for a guaranteed $1k.

Let's make a list of all BB players income june to october vs. Non-BB players. I can tell you right now that Shane will earn more in the same time period. And Mike D. and all the filipinos might, too.

Shane already has close to $50k in earnings since january first with 'regular' tournaments. That says a lot.

Why take money out of the players' hands ?


Again, the best solution would have been to extend the season to 32 or more weeks, given that the cost of rent of the building and all other collateral costs (which is BB's main point) will have to be paid for 52 weeks anyways.
 

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
given that the cost of rent of the building and all other collateral costs (which is BB's main point) will have to be paid for 52 weeks anyways.

This isn't true actually.

The BB season will end in November. Season 2 is scheduled to start two months later (tentative). Delaying weeks to accommodate other events prevents the ability to generate income, which is counter productive for a business.

In addition, we're looking at possibly having the venue rented out during the off season (we've had an inquiry by another Vegas production company). If the season takes longer, we'd lose that possible extra income as well.
 
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jpparmentier

AZB Artist
Silver Member
Team AzB
This isn't true actually.

It was my first question yesterday, about the 52 weeks. So what's going to happen to the studio the remaining 26 weeks of non-play ? That's what I was asking about. I can see you guys having less costs, but not zero cost during off-season.
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
Well, BB didn't get Shane and Mike D. Who are probably going to cash a lot between all of the events we listed, plus a few regional tours.

I agree that the BB income would be nice for the players, but it would be better to have it on top of the other tournaments.

I can't see a reason to turn down two $25k added tournaments such as the US Opens in the same week in Vegas, to play for a guaranteed $1k.

Let's make a list of all BB players income june to october vs. Non-BB players. I can tell you right now that Shane will earn more in the same time period. And Mike D. and all the filipinos might, too.

Shane already has close to $50k in earnings since january first with 'regular' tournaments. That says a lot.

Why take money out of the players' hands ?


Again, the best solution would have been to extend the season to 32 or more weeks, given that the cost of rent of the building and all other collateral costs (which is BB's main point) will have to be paid for 52 weeks anyways.

Obviously it would be nice if the players could get paid 1k a week when all the other tournaments aren't happening, but that's a logistical nightmare. Its just not going to happen in any sport where there is a long schedule and team oriented.

Its not just about the 1k that week either.....they are 100% getting 1k every week for 26 weeks. I think most players are easily going to be better off with that deal than running around tournament to tournament having to place top 5 or so to even stand a chance of turning a profit.

Using the top money winner is a bad example. He is the exception and not the norm. Because of his high level of play and consistency, sure, he is likely to make more not even worrying with BB. There are a few others in his shoes, but not many.

The other 95% of players are easily better off financially taking the 1k a week pay.

It does seem problematic now, since everyone is used to all the other events.....but if pool is ever going to go mainstream like other sports, its going to have to fall under one banner eventually. Will that be BB? Time will tell, but someone's going to have to step up and virtually take over for pool to be consistent across the board and mainstream.
 

jpparmentier

AZB Artist
Silver Member
Team AzB
Delaying weeks to accommodate other events prevents the ability to generate income, which is counter productive for a business.

But you're at ease with the others losing income with some of the main players not being able to attend their tournaments.

The way you guys enter the industry could not be more careless and whatever the concept or the project is, all this chaos it's creating was probably not necessary.

Other events won't accomodate your dates in the future, and your position might change when you're going to start losing key players too, which will happen.


I really don't get the attitude while all of this could have worked really well with a more gentle approach. I really feel for the players. I hope for their sake that BB is going to be a success, really.
 
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SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
This isn't true actually.

The BB season will end in November. Season 2 is scheduled to start two months later (tentative). Delaying weeks to accommodate other events prevents the ability to generate income, which is counter productive for a business.

In addition, we're looking at possibly having the venue rented out during the off season (we've had an inquiry by another Vegas production company). If the season takes longer, we'd lose that possible extra income as well.

I totally agree, any downtime is money lost, and obviously if you can find a way to either break even or actually generate profit on the lease/expenses during the off season, that's a no brainer.
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
Holy crap you guys are fast. Scroll up. :)

Not to mess in BB business, and feel free to say you can't disclose, but does BB have a contract in place which prevents players from basically taking the week off and playing in another tournament? Literally leaving you guys ****ed for that week?
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
But you're at ease with the others losing income with some of the main players not being able to attend their tournaments.

The way you guys enter the industry could not be more careless and whatever the concept or the project is, all this chaos it's creating was probably not necessary.

Other event won't accomodate your dates in the future, and your position might change when you're going to start losing key players too, which will happen.


I really don't get the attitude while all of this could have worked really well with a more gentle approach. I really feel for the players. I hope for their sake that BB is going to be a success, really.

Well.....what's the difference? If they schedule around other tournaments, they lose money.....if they don't, the other tournaments lose money.

You seem to be ok with BB losing money......how is that attitude any different than BB being ok with others losing money?

So which is more fair......the ones that have been around years, but so far haven't generated enough popularity to go mainstream, or the new guys on the block which raised tons of money, built an arena, and are taking a large financial risk?

You act like its very easy to bring all the players in for a few weeks, along with the staff to run things. Then take a break for 2 weeks to a month, then fly everyone back in, and start all over for a few weeks. What business runs this way???

Your logic can't just go one way. Either way you look at it, someone is going to suffer financially.
 
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SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
Well, BB didn't get Shane and Mike D. Who are probably going to cash a lot between all of the events we listed, plus a few regional tours.

I agree that the BB income would be nice for the players, but it would be better to have it on top of the other tournaments.

I can't see a reason to turn down two $25k added tournaments such as the US Opens in the same week in Vegas, to play for a guaranteed $1k.

Let's make a list of all BB players income june to october vs. Non-BB players. I can tell you right now that Shane will earn more in the same time period. And Mike D. and all the filipinos might, too.

Shane already has close to $50k in earnings since january first with 'regular' tournaments. That says a lot.

Why take money out of the players' hands ?


Again, the best solution would have been to extend the season to 32 or more weeks, given that the cost of rent of the building and all other collateral costs (which is BB's main point) will have to be paid for 52 weeks anyways.

Not to mention, the US Open has a habit of not playing players. Why that tournament is even still considered a top tournament is a testament to the current state of pool.

BB should work around things like the Mosconi Cup, but the US Open shouldn't even be a bleep on their radar.
 

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
But you're at ease with the others losing income with some of the main players not being able to attend their tournaments.

No one said we're "at ease".

The WPBL needs to generate money to become sustainable, a lot of it. That's a tough task in itself, and some on here claim its outright impossible.

Now rather than do what's in the best interest of the company and try to earn that income to pay it's players and become sustainable, you're suggesting that the business risk crippling itself in order to offer courtesy to promoters?

I'm sorry, but it simply doesn't make sense to me.

I love the idea of a perfect world where there are perfect solutions to every problem, but unfortunately the world doesn't work that way. At the end of the day, we're scheduling our matches so that players can play in as many events as possible, yet maintaining a schedule that presents the WPBL with the best chance of success.

It's an interesting debate, and hopefully someone will present a solution that could be later implemented for future seasons.
 

SterlingArcher

Dangerrrrr Zone
Silver Member
No one said we're "at ease".

The WPBL needs to generate money to become sustainable, a lot of it. That's a tough task in itself, and some on here claim its outright impossible.

Now rather than do what's in the best interest of the company and try to earn that income to pay it's players and become sustainable, you're suggesting that the business risk crippling itself in order to offer courtesy to promoters?

I'm sorry, but it simply doesn't make sense to me.

I love the idea of a perfect world where there are perfect solutions to every problem, but unfortunately the world doesn't work that way. At the end of the day, we're scheduling our matches so that players can play in as many events as possible, yet maintaining a schedule that presents the WPBL with the best chance of success.

It's an interesting debate, and hopefully someone will present a solution that could be later implemented for future seasons.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=CktNV97ga9Y&desktop_uri=/watch?v=CktNV97ga9Y
 
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