Bonus ball the truth

JAM said:
Man, this is like a full-fledged World War in the pool industry. It affects so many facets, and I can understand the viewpoints from several of those facets.

First and foremost, I want to go on the record as saying I totally understand why the Bonus Ball players united together for the cause. The BCA has shut the door on them, more or less. Many regional tours have prohibited to banned them from competing in their events in the last few years. They need to eat, too, just like the rest of us.

However, when an loyal industry member, such as Greg Sullivan, reaches out to some of the players he has supported in the past with free perks and benefits, I think the Bonus Ball players who cancled out on Tunica and gave Greg Sullivan little to no respect have done a lot of damage to themselves.

It's all over now, water under the bridge, and the damage is done. The Bonus Ball players will not have as many events to compete in as previously, and if Bonus Ball doesn't find a funder, then where do we go from here?

Speaking from a damage control point of view, it's time to quit picking scabs, I guess. We need to move forward in the interest of survival, players and industry members alike, if you want pool to move forward. If not, if you'd like it to stay where it's at today, then let's continue to beat up the other side.
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GREAT common sense post! JAM up, in fact! ;)

BB will put the final nail in the coffin for MANY "pros" of it doesn't work out. I'm rooting for it to succeed, but only for the sake of pool. I don't like the game, or the amount you have to pay to watch it, or the amount you have to pay to watch a game you don't like... so on and so fourth. If they would play 8 ball, I think it would have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more success. Just 3 man team, 8 ball. Just like the rest of the U.S. plays in league. But I digress.

The shittiest part of BB is that it seems a lot of people are in the same boat as me. Rooting for something to succeed, even though we don't like, want, or even play the thing. I just hope when all is said and done that the pro's aren't just left high and dry AGAIN.

We all know that the players aren't taking the prom queen to the dance, but they are with something at least. Hopefully it doesn't kick them where it counts, steal the keys to their Camaro, and high tail it out of dodge when the music cuts off...

Here's to very sincerely hoping that BB doesn't complete kill "pro" pool once and for all in the states...
 
PINKLADY said:
i'm on your ass, cause you're the "Voice of BB" - no offense - this is business

1) if you had a contract @ $20K, and your net was $5K in cash/trade - would this be acceptible to you?

2) if you had a contract @ $26K+/+, and your net was $2K after o-o-p expenses to recoup - would this be acceptible to you?

3) if you had dropped $160 PPV & received $0-$12 worth (due to poor streaming & GOB) - would this be acceptible to you?

4) if you had booked a trip to LAS @ $1400, and had to EAT IT (due to GOB) - would this be acceptible to you?

Claim #4 is filed herein.
.
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I'm trying to answer everyone's posts and mainly am trying to stick to Lee's claims and give the side of another employee. That's what my coming here was all about. So I am sorry, but I have no idea what any of that is about.
 
jhanso18 said:
GREAT common sense post! JAM up, in fact! ;)

BB will put the final nail in the coffin for MANY "pros" of it doesn't work out. I'm rooting for it to succeed, but only for the sake of pool. I don't like the game, or the amount you have to pay to watch it, or the amount you have to pay to watch a game you don't like... so on and so fourth. If they would play 8 ball, I think it would have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more success. Just 3 man team, 8 ball. Just like the rest of the U.S. plays in league. But I digress.

The shittiest part of BB is that it seems a lot of people are in the same boat as me. Rooting for something to succeed, even though we don't like, want, or even play the thing. I just hope when all is said and done that the pro's aren't just left high and dry AGAIN.

We all know that the players aren't taking the prom queen to the dance, but they are with something at least. Hopefully it doesn't kick them where it counts, steal the keys to their Camaro, and high tail it out of dodge when the music cuts off...

Here's to very sincerely hoping that BB doesn't complete kill "pro" pool once and for all in the states...
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Well said, young man. I have to agree with this line of thinking. SOMETHING is better than nothing. I'm not sure where we go from here, but I sure would like it to move in a better place. :)
 
Vlr said:
We aren't under contract sir. We basically have a verbal agreement and are working on trust and faith this venture will work. I haven't been (and don't expect to be) paid for 26 weeks either. I worked 6 weeks from May to July announcing and from October through today doing that and some administrative things and that's all I have been paid for and all I SHOULD be - not for 26 weeks. If I had something in writing saying otherwise it would be different, but I don't.
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Fair enough Steve. So there was no paperwork for players, you, Lee, Nathan, Lenny, etc? Lee said he signed something...

I hope BB can sell what's in the can to ??? and make things right, cause they absolutely screwed the pooch so far. I'd be surprised if "they" pulled it out of their ass. I personally love the game and the concept. I have a lot of disdain for what's happened so far; it's a shame.

IMO, someone has either embezzled, deceived or been dumb as a rock to this point. Time may tell which. And us crack AZ reporters are determined to find out. Not that the pool world will necessarily learn from lessons past.

The truth is the teacher and there's more chapters yet unwritten. :cool:
 
JAM said:
Your logic is the world according to you. :rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
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And most rational people.

My logic =

1) Not supporting an organization who doesn't pay their people

2) Not supporting an organization who leverages people: "I'll bring your check when you sign a video release"

3) Not supporting an organization who strings people along to the point of breaking, and then offers payment in BB sets as a send-off

4) Not supporting an organization who is relaunching v2.0 with Michaela while still owing Lee money for work performed

5) Not supporting an organization who won't even address the emails of concerned customers who purchased a full-season streaming pass

6) Not supporting an organization who flat-out heisted AZ BILLIARDS and has refused to pay their advertising bill, yet for some weird reason AZB still posts their news items and allows any BB thread to exist without locking it down (Jerry and Mike are classy guys)

7) Not allowing BB to get away with the above, not allowing it to be water under the bridge and always keeping stuff like this bumped so future "new" forum members who don't know the history think twice before buying anything BB related

^^^^ That's the world according to me. I know the world according to you is probably love BB for all the money they've put into players' pockets already and to support them moving forward, which is basically your IPT position (i.e. as long as they ain't screwing me, thems some GOOD GUYS!)
 
JAM said:
Well said, young man. I have to agree with this line of thinking. SOMETHING is better than nothing. I'm not sure where we go from here, but I sure would like it to move in a better place. :)
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Thank you. I'm all for moving to a better place, but where is the better place? Do we even know vaguely what the direction is? I mean we need something new, a catalyst if you will. I've been avoiding this topic because I don't have that answer.

I feel that with about a $50k investment on the side, and Pro's paying in a little I have a legitimate idea that could work, similar in fashion to Bonus Ball, but with a TON more commonsense. That being said I don't have $50k laying around to blow, and the few sponsors I've talked to about such a plan are, lets say, less than receptive.

I also think it would be fantastic if we could bring industry leaders in to a round table discusion. Barry, Mark G., Greg S. and work together at creating a REAL PRO LEAGUE. It wouldn't be hard, Bonus Ball got that right some how. You can use a similar template, but put it in a different context that would actually be selfsustaining. Might not make a lot of money for itself, but could atleast pay the pro's and maybe grow into a legit, profitable, well run and organized, business.

All the above being said, I'm all for BB working out, but if it fails, and some one wants to roll a $50k free ride my way on something that will more than likely also fail, but has like a 3-5% shot at paying double back or more, let me know!

All the best, to all involved, in this fantastically organized, monkey shit fight at the zoo...
 
SpiderWebComm said:
And most rational people.

My logic =

1) Not supporting an organization who doesn't pay their people

2) Not supporting an organization who leverages people: "I'll bring your check when you sign a video release"

3) Not supporting an organization who strings people along to the point of breaking, and then offers payment in BB sets as a send-off

4) Not supporting an organization who is relaunching v2.0 with Michaela while still owing Lee money for work performed

5) Not supporting an organization who won't even address the emails of concerned customers who purchased a full-season streaming pass

6) Not supporting an organization who flat-out heisted AZ BILLIARDS and has refused to pay their advertising bill, yet for some weird reason AZB still posts their news items and allows any BB thread to exist without locking it down (Jerry and Mike are classy guys)

7) Not allowing BB to get away with the above, not allowing it to be water under the bridge and always keeping stuff like this bumped so future "new" forum members who don't know the history think twice before buying anything BB related

^^^^ That's the world according to me. I know the world according to you is probably love BB for all the money they've put into players' pockets already and to support them moving forward, which is basically your IPT position (i.e. as long as they ain't screwing me, thems some GOOD GUYS!)
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OMG, another Spidatribe. :o
 
Vlr said:
Send me an email to stevewstrain@hotmail.com as well. Let me know the situation and I will try to help. I have no idea what this is about but would love to learn.
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NOV 4 - POST 16 - BB players have been paid! thread

Jerry Forsyth said:
We at AZB would like to wish the Bonus Ball debt with us a very Happy Birthday. They ran ad banners with us in 2012 and have now gone for a full year without responding to any invoice or statement. Way to go, guys. You have made history as the only entity ever to just flat steal from AZB in over 15 years of our being in business.
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keep up -
 
SpiderWebComm said:
And most rational people.

My logic =

1) Not supporting an organization who doesn't pay their people

2) Not supporting an organization who leverages people: "I'll bring your check when you sign a video release"

3) Not supporting an organization who strings people along to the point of breaking, and then offers payment in BB sets as a send-off

4) Not supporting an organization who is relaunching v2.0 with Michaela while still owing Lee money for work performed

5) Not supporting an organization who won't even address the emails of concerned customers who purchased a full-season streaming pass

6) Not supporting an organization who flat-out heisted AZ BILLIARDS and has refused to pay their advertising bill, yet for some weird reason AZB still posts their news items and allows any BB thread to exist without locking it down (Jerry and Mike are classy guys)

7) Not allowing BB to get away with the above, not allowing it to be water under the bridge and always keeping stuff like this bumped so future "new" forum members who don't know the history think twice before buying anything BB related

^^^^ That's the world according to me. I know the world according to you is probably love BB for all the money they've put into players' pockets already and to support them moving forward, which is basically your IPT position (i.e. as long as they ain't screwing me, thems some GOOD GUYS!)
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Spidey, I hear you on all of the above. I agree on a moralistic level about not supporting the organization. I don't like supporting BB, but I try to support pro pool when I can. This is where many of the pros have decided to eat, I'm trying to help pick up their tab. No more, no less.

If there is a better option for 40-60 pros to collect a steady check I'm guessing they are all ears. I don't have that solution, and I'm guessing you don't either. BB is holding most of the cards, and I SERIOUSLY doubt the players care about each other enough to leverage that power back at BB, and get what rightfully theirs.

This is by far one of the worst things I've seen in pool since I fell in love with the game 4-5 years ago. It's sad, and it's not good for pool IMO. That being said, I support BB only because it is SUPPOSEDLY trying to pay the pros that I like to watch play.

Time will tell us if what most of us believe is true. BB is a bad idea that won't work and is going to Screw the players, fans/enthusiest, and industry members out of time, money, and respect from outside the pool world.

I wish it were as simple as what you want it to be spidey, but I don't think it can be.

All the best man!
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
Fair enough Steve. So there was no paperwork for players, you, Lee, Nathan, Lenny, etc? Lee said he signed something...
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I can't speak for Nathan and Lenny. I was just here on Lee's original posting to add another perspective. As a contractor, it is my understanding that a contract isn't required, just something that can protect either party in the event of a conflict. In this case, Lee worked 6 weeks and was paid that in cash or by other means agreed to. So while I wish him the best, I just don't know what more he is expecting.
 
PINKLADY said:
NOV 4 - POST 16 - BB players have been paid! thread





keep up -
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My question is why does AZB even allow BB threads on the forum then? My guess is that on the off chance BB does manage to pull it's head out of its rear end, that a partnership of sorts can blossom.

If I were the owner/operator/moderator I would not allow a single whiff of Bonus Ball on my forum until paid in full.
 
Vlr said:
I can't speak for Nathan and Lenny. I was just here on Lee's original posting to add another perspective. As a contractor, it is my understanding that a contract isn't required, just something that can protect either party in the event of a conflict. In this case, Lee worked 6 weeks and was paid that in cash or by other means agreed to. So while I wish him the best, I just don't know what more he is expecting.
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He was expecting MONEY....CURRENCY....not BB sets. He was forced to take that or nothing.

Please scan and post the check stubs with the amounts paid to Lee for the 6 weeks he worked.
 
jhanso18 said:
My question is why does AZB even allow BB threads on the forum then? My guess is that on the off chance BB does manage to pull it's head out of its rear end, that a partnership of sorts can blossom.

If I were the owner/operator/moderator I would not allow a single whiff of Bonus Ball on my forum until paid in full.
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^^^ No doubt. That's what any reasonable business owner would do.
 
Vlr said:
So while I wish him the best, I just don't know what more he is expecting.
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HE WANTS TO GET PAID CASH, BECAUSE HE CAN'T SELL BB SETS.

It's not that hard to figure out. You know what he wants, you just don't want to give it to him. He wasn't paid in full by the original agreement, and thats what he wants in place/addition to the ball sets.

I would add that, paying Lee Brett in full, would go ALONG way with fans, and potential customers. That is obvious.
 
Vlr said:
I can't speak for Nathan and Lenny. I was just here on Lee's original posting to add another perspective. As a contractor, it is my understanding that a contract isn't required, just something that can protect either party in the event of a conflict. In this case, Lee worked 6 weeks and was paid that in cash or by other means agreed to. So while I wish him the best, I just don't know what more he is expecting.
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Steve:

are you @ Vegas? cause i can hand-deliver my receipts @ $1400 @ DEC 1.
and JAN 20.
and MAY 10.
and JUN 18.
and JUL 25.
and SEP 2.
and NOV 8.
and DEC 5.

(or have my NV rep deliver daily, till reimbursed)

.
 
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PINKLADY said:
Steve:

are you @ Vegas? cause i can hand-deliver my receipts @ $1400 @ DEC 1.
and JAN 20.
and MAY 10.
and JUN 18.
and JUL 25.
and SEP 2.
and NOV 8.
and DEC 5.

.
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The only thing I will ever trust again in pool is that:

- I'll dog the money ball

- Super speed rails makes sex more fun (but use a coaster under the muffin)
 
Vlr said:
I can't speak for Nathan and Lenny. I was just here on Lee's original posting to add another perspective. As a contractor, it is my understanding that a contract isn't required, just something that can protect either party in the event of a conflict. In this case, Lee worked 6 weeks and was paid that in cash or by other means agreed to. So while I wish him the best, I just don't know what more he is expecting.
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I imagine when Lee moved out to Vegas to be a REF, he wasn't expcting that after his REF job he would then have to become a Bonus Ball Salesman in order to get ANYTHING out of it. I think that is what is bothering him and rightly so.
I am sure that in Lee's agreement it didn't say After you get done reffing Bonus Ball you will have t sell Bonus Ball Sets for your actual pay. If it did an Lee still went out there he is stupid, HoweverI doubt tha was theway of it.
 
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