Brite-Tone: new waterborne finish

dafunkdawg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well I played around with the brite tone and I am by no means a finish expert. I brushed it on over epoxy sealer on a couple cues and can say it sand easy and lays down pretty well but if you hit it with rubbing alcohol even after drying for months it gets tacky and soft
 

speedy5963

speedy5963
Silver Member
Good read and info in this thread, as someone new messing with cue building and have done repair work for a while. I've only sprayed a few cues but having an automotive spraying background, that is my comfort zone. May get the test kit and play with this as well though.
 

Guerra Cues

I build one cue at a time
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have a few cues that have been finished for over a year and the finish looks awesome and never had issues with any alcohol or any other solvent after the cue was sprayed and dried.
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Spot on!
I've spent quite a bit of time and money on clear coat products, buffing compounds, spray guns etc. and I'm still learning.

Fact!
When it comes to wood puzzles, (pool cues), no one knows everything. It gets easier when you do things consistently such as, learn about what your using, along with Temperature and humidity of your shop.
 

speedy5963

speedy5963
Silver Member
I ended up with a SATA minijet. Iwata, Sata, Devilbiss, they all seem to make high quality sprayguns. I'm using a 2K Mipa clear atm, PPG and Chromax is crazy expensive over here!

I have a few Sata's, love them, for cues the simple touch up gun works great.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fact!
When it comes to wood puzzles, (pool cues), no one knows everything. It gets easier when you do things consistently such as, learn about what your using, along with Temperature and humidity of your shop.

Yep, it`s one thing reading about what another cuemaker is doing, but doing it yourself is a quite another thing...
But finishing seems to be a subject that has frustrated just about every cuemaker at some point. I think I saw the light when i found the right (for me) cutting and buffing compounds.
 

bstroud

Deceased
I can not list all the finish products I tried over 45 years of cue making but one incident stands out.

In Aspen I was helping a friend refinish his AC Ace. The precursor to the Cobra.
It had an all aluminum body and he did some research to see what the best paint would be. At that time trucks and aircraft were using Dupont Imron.
We painted the car bright Red.

I got to thinking about Imron and decided to try some clear on a few cues.
The results were amazing compared to the standard wood finishes that I had tried. I used it for years until I found something better.

I am now convinced that Imron was the cause of my Lymphoma cancer.

So make sure whatever you use you take proper precautions.

Bstroud
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Imron has been illegal in California for a long time.
People have sworn it was the best finish then.
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Imron has been illegal in California for a long time.
People have sworn it was the best finish then.


Everything is illegal in Cali now. Lol :eek:
Certain sanding sealers have joined the list in New England too.
Deft Laquer sanding sealer has joined the list up here.
When it comes to what we do, sealing, finishing and the woods we use. IT'S NO JOKE! Please protect yourself.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
Finished two cues with brite tone this week.

Used a one inch paint brush and my slow rotating lathe I built for epoxy. Brush a thin coat on, set the timer to an hour and come back and repeat when time allows. I put 5 or 6 coats on, not sure. No prep between coats at all.

I see no reason to spray it. I love the no odor whatsoever and the 10 seconds it takes to clean my brush. It sanded very easily, smooth and clear starting with 600 grit dry then 8, 12, 2k and 2500 wet. Polished with 3m machine polish and a paper napkin. I can see why the luthiers sand it dry as it doesn't clog the sandpaper like epoxy does. With a downdraft table dry all the way is for sure an option.

I guess spraying it might lay flatter but it only took a minute to sand the first level and with a brush you get almost zero waste and no overspray.

It's as clear and shiny as anything I have ever seen with a fraction the effort of epoxy and none of the toxicity of other options.

If it looks good on my test cues, including my own player, in 6 months count me in.

JC
 
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kgoods

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Thanks for sharing your experience, I've been watching this thread with great interest. Appreciated!
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
Did I mention the economics? It appears I will be able to finish about a dozen or more cues with my 8oz tester.

JC
 

kgoods

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Did I mention the economics? It appears I will be able to finish about a dozen or more cues with my 8oz tester.

JC

More great info, thanks John. I didn't see anything on how much it takes per cue anywhere else in the thread.

So I'm assuming using this is going to add a half oz of weight to the cue or less?

I also have a guitar that I repaired a while back but couldn't get the gloss finish to match, this may just do the trick. I'll have to give it a try.
 
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captainjko

Kirk
Silver Member
Finished two cues with brite tone this week.

Used a one inch paint brush and my slow rotating lathe I built for epoxy. Brush a thin coat on, set the timer to an hour and come back and repeat when time allows. I put 5 or 6 coats on, not sure. No prep between coats at all.

I see no reason to spray it. I love the no odor whatsoever and the 10 seconds it takes to clean my brush. It sanded very easily, smooth and clear starting with 600 grit dry then 8, 12, 2k and 2500 wet. Polished with 3m machine polish and a paper napkin. I can see why the luthiers sand it dry as it doesn't clog the sandpaper like epoxy does. With a downdraft table dry all the way is for sure an option.

I guess spraying it might lay flatter but it only took a minute to sand the first level and with a brush you get almost zero waste and no overspray.

It's as clear and shiny as anything I have ever seen with a fraction the effort of epoxy and none of the toxicity of other options.

If it looks good on my test cues, including my own player, in 6 months count me in.

JC

How long did you wait to sand after last coat? And how many thousandths of thickness did those 5-6 coat add?
 
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JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
How long did you wait to sand after last coat? And how many thousandths of thickness did those 5-6 coat add?

I waited two days.

I didn't measure before and after diameter. I have two sanding mandrels one for sanding the cue and one for sanding the finish and they are .006 difference in size. Therefore the finish is .003 thick exactly at the joint. I keep it thin there to avoid chipping. The stuff is thin but has some body to it. I suspect I layed it considerably heavier than required as the rotating cue as it dries allows this. Therefore I probably sanded off more than required also causing waste in going on and coming off. I was in no way worried about sanding through as it cleaned up really fast. Will probably lay it in thinner in the future.

I really wish I could post a photo that does it justice. This is the best I have on one of the cues. It really looks as good to my eye as any automotive clear coat I have seen.
BTW the handle on this cue is a piece of Texas ebony that was a gift from Charlie Wilhite so if you're reading this Charlie here is the result. The rest of the cue is local oregon Cherry. Going to send this cue to my little brother who lives in San Antonio as a gift. Best way to test a finish right?

_DSC3972 [800x600].jpg

_DSC3973 [800x600].jpg

_DSC3974 [800x600].jpg

_DSC3975 [800x600].jpg

Hope this helps
 

dafunkdawg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It does look great. Do me a favor and wipe one down with some 91% isopropyl and see if it gets tacky again. Guerra said he never had issues with alcohol or any other solvent and brite tone said it should not affect it either but I just tried again with one that has been hanging for months and it got tacky and lost its gloss immediately. It was not like I submerged it either. Just sprayed a couple squirts on a paper towel and wiped the cue lightly. I really loved everything about this finish but that was a deal breaker to me. I had a guy bring a cue in for some repair a while back and asked me if I would clean it up. I grabbed the old trusty alcohol bottle and the whole turned into a gummy mess. Not sure that it was this same finish but needless to say the experience stuck with me.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
It does look great. Do me a favor and wipe one down with some 91% isopropyl and see if it gets tacky again. Guerra said he never had issues with alcohol or any other solvent and brite tone said it should not affect it either but I just tried again with one that has been hanging for months and it got tacky and lost its gloss immediately. It was not like I submerged it either. Just sprayed a couple squirts on a paper towel and wiped the cue lightly. I really loved everything about this finish but that was a deal breaker to me. I had a guy bring a cue in for some repair a while back and asked me if I would clean it up. I grabbed the old trusty alcohol bottle and the whole turned into a gummy mess. Not sure that it was this same finish but needless to say the experience stuck with me.

You are correct, I wiped it with alcohol and it did indeed dissolve the surface and make it tacky. Mine is less than a week old.

Something to consider strongly before using it. Perhaps tell the owner of the cue not to use any solvents of any kind on it? There is always something that will soften all finishes. You just don't want it to be anything laying around the average household. A person won't put paint remover on their cue but may well use an alcohol wipe.

You could tell them it's a "green" water based finish and only clean it with soap and water. People will make sacrifices to be eco friendly :)

It has after all been on guitars and such for a very long time.

Thanks,

JC
 
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captainjko

Kirk
Silver Member
I waited two days.

I didn't measure before and after diameter. I have two sanding mandrels one for sanding the cue and one for sanding the finish and they are .006 difference in size. Therefore the finish is .003 thick exactly at the joint. I keep it thin there to avoid chipping. The stuff is thin but has some body to it. I suspect I layed it considerably heavier than required as the rotating cue as it dries allows this. Therefore I probably sanded off more than required also causing waste in going on and coming off. I was in no way worried about sanding through as it cleaned up really fast. Will probably lay it in thinner in the future.

I really wish I could post a photo that does it justice. This is the best I have on one of the cues. It really looks as good to my eye as any automotive clear coat I have seen.
BTW the handle on this cue is a piece of Texas ebony that was a gift from Charlie Wilhite so if you're reading this Charlie here is the result. The rest of the cue is local oregon Cherry. Going to send this cue to my little brother who lives in San Antonio as a gift. Best way to test a finish right?

View attachment 521915

View attachment 521916

View attachment 521917

View attachment 521918

Hope this helps

3 things...
1) Cue looks great....
2) Your little brother moved to N.C., so send cue to me and then I will find him in a few years and give to him..... j/k
3) Did the coating get hard again after the alcohol dried? or did it need re-coating?
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
3 things...
1) Cue looks great....
2) Your little brother moved to N.C., so send cue to me and then I will find him in a few years and give to him..... j/k
3) Did the coating get hard again after the alcohol dried? or did it need re-coating?

I didn't use much and it was on a test piece not one of the cues. None of it came off on the paper towel but I think it would have had I pressed harder and had more alcohol.

It looks like it needs resanded for sure but the finish returned to hard..

JC
 
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