Buddy Hall. Great one-pocket player?

Aaron_S

Aaron_S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Like many people, I've always admired the man's 9-ball game. I had never seen Buddy play 1-p, though, until a couple of years ago (2004, I believe) in the DCC. Considering Buddy's reputation for inhuman cueball control, great ball-pocketing ability, and overall careful, deliberate play, I would have expected him to be an absolute terror at one-pocket. That is, if he enjoyed the game enough to actually play it.

The DCC match I saw was against Efren, and I found the match to be pretty amazing and yet pretty disappointing at the same time. Efren wins 3-0, no huge surprise, but what I thought was amazing was that Buddy beat Efren to the shot in every single rack! And these were not just "sucker" openings, either, these were pretty major sellouts on Efren's part; maybe someone else who saw the match can chime in and back me up on this. In each game, Buddy was the first to encounter a high % shot at his hole with several other balls in play; the kind of situation where you expect a guy to do major damage, maybe even get all 8. The kind of situation where, if it's Efren shooting, you just automatically think "oh, he's out". Unfortunately, however, Buddy was just not hitting them well that day, and he failed to capitilize on each of these opportunities. That was the disappointing part, because, while I like both guys, and didn't really care who won, I was hoping Buddy would give Efren a run for his money.

My question is this: did Buddy ever really get into one-pocket seriously, particularly during the period when he was playing 9-ball as well as anyone on the planet? Also, if Buddy was somewhat of a one-pocket player at that time, how did he stack up against the guys who would have been considered the one-pocket specialists of the time?

Thanks for the info,

Aaron
 
Grady had a 1P tourny in Im gonna say 97 or so in Baton Rouge. It had a pretty strong (American) field and Buddy was the last man standing. He beat Marco Marquez in the finals though Marco was not that well known at the time. Scott Smith had no clue on Marco and even "dissed" him a little in the intros that week.
 
There's a good Accu-Stats video of Buddy Hall playing Cliff Joyner 1-P at the DCC. I want to say it's from 2000? Anyway, their contrasting styles are certainly obvious. Cliff is aggressive and goes for more shots. Buddy is slow and controlled, and manages to win the set (race to 3)
 
Buddy may be famous for 9B, but his 1P game is worthy of respect. He won the 2001 DCC (cruising to the victory) and the 1998 World One Pocket Championships and took a 2nd at 1998 Legends of One Pocket.

http://www.accu-stats.com/Qstore/Qs...=000005&CAT=1111716364&BACK=A0007A1B0000005B1
http://www.accu-stats.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=000005&CAT=000032&BACK=A0007A1B0000005B1
http://www.accu-stats.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=000005&CAT=000098&BACK=A0007A1B0000005B1

You don't make multiple appearances in 1P finals without the skills to get there.
 
mosconiac said:
Buddy may be famous for 9B, but his 1P game is worthy of respect. He won the 2001 DCC (cruising to the victory) and the 1998 World One Pocket Championships and took a 2nd at 1998 Legends of One Pocket.

http://www.accu-stats.com/Qstore/Qs...=000005&CAT=1111716364&BACK=A0007A1B0000005B1
http://www.accu-stats.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=000005&CAT=000032&BACK=A0007A1B0000005B1
http://www.accu-stats.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=000005&CAT=000098&BACK=A0007A1B0000005B1

You don't make multiple appearances in 1P finals without the skills to get there.
Click to expand...

Wow, I didn't realize he had won a DCC 1-p title. I gotta get some more videos! Thanks for the info.

Aaron
 
Buddy is the commentator for the Grady Matthews - Billy Incardona "grudge match" accu-stats tape. His commentary shows he knows the game of one-pocket very intimately, doing a good job of analyzing Billy and Grady's options and strategies throughout the match, although he doesn't do a great job of making his commentary understandable. He'd say something like "I believe Grady will go into the 15 here", when what he means is, "Grady's going to have to kick two rails to clear the 7 ball from Billy's pocket, and I believe he'll use the 15 as a stopper to leave Billy in front of his own pocket."

Anyway, his commentary made it clear that he'd spent plenty of time playing and studying the game of one-pocket.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
Buddy is the commentator for the Grady Matthews - Billy Incardona "grudge match" accu-stats tape.
Click to expand...
Is this the match you are referring to? Is it worth collecting? Any banter between GM & BI?
 
Not his game

While being one of the greatest 9 ball players of all time, to quote Jersey Red, "Buddy couldnt find his pocket with an Indian guide.." I say this even tho Buddy and I are the very best of pals. He had all the necessary skills but I just dont think he liked the game enough. In Chicago he asked Artie for 9 to 7.

the Beard
 
I think Buddy actually got better since any time Jersey Red could of seen him.

Accu-Stats actually has a tape of Buddy dismantling Efren Reyes 4-1 and he keeps Efren in control the whole match, believe it or not. He played great in Sacramento at one of the One Pocket tournements at Hard Times recently,too.

As great as he shoots, he still doesn't have the power shots of a Ronnie Allen or Bugs, but he banks great, plays phenomenal position, and has learned a lot of the defensive part of the game.

Whether his top game could ever handle the likes of Artie, Bugs, or even guys like Steve Cook, Allen Hopkins,etc... is doubtful, but he can definately play great sometimes and knows a lot about the game. Not as much as some of the true legends maybe, but he's seen a lot of one pocket since his earlier days when he was a barbox and then nine ball specialist.

I think he actually does a good job commentating on most of the one pocket tapes he's done. He doesn't have the depth of knowledge of Grady, Freddie, or maybe Billy Incardona has, but he still knows quite a bit.

I'm a big fan of his though, so maybe I'm biased.
 
The Accustats tape of Buddy crushing Efren is: 1P4-10, Legends of One Pocket IV.

It doesn't sound as though many of y'all have seen Buddy play one-pocket much. He has the same innate ability to see and execute shots and moves as do the other very best players.

I'd put Buddy in the top 10 one-pocket players of today. If he were just a few years younger, I'd put him in the top 5.

Doc
 
Legends Baton Rouge

Check out Grady's Baton Rouge Legends tournament in the 90's on accu-stats. Buddy is playing Marco Marques in the semi or quarter finals. Ronnie, Cardone and I are doing the commentary. Somewhere in the course of the match Ronnie remarks,"These guys just dont know the game like you and I do." It was one of the greatest compliments I ever received, since Ronnie extended few kudos to anyone regarding 1pkt expertise. Buddy's 1pkt weaknesses show up well and are pointed out by Ronnie, Billy and I throughout that match (which he lost by the way). What probably confuses people about Buddy's 1pkt game is that everything he choses to shoot, he executes perfectly. That in itself is good enough to beat most people, especially in short sets like tournament matches. However, stretched out into a long session, having to do everything the hard way would eventually bear bitter fruit.
If you think Im being sacreligious about Buddy, the guy Hubert Cokes used to call "The Little Gorilla," Nicky Varner could use a 1pkt Indian guide also.
Opinionatingly yours,

the Beard
 
Aaron_S said:
Like many people, I've always admired the man's 9-ball game. I had never seen Buddy play 1-p, though, until a couple of years ago (2004, I believe) in the DCC. Considering Buddy's reputation for inhuman cueball control, great ball-pocketing ability, and overall careful, deliberate play, I would have expected him to be an absolute terror at one-pocket. That is, if he enjoyed the game enough to actually play it.
Click to expand...
As others have noted, Buddy has won a few major one-pocket tournaments.

I'll agree with Freddy insofar as guys like Buddy and Nick don't play one-pocket with all of the moves that the great one-pocket players know. But, both of these guys are two of the greatest shotmakers ever, they can bank like all Kentucky boys can, and they have supreme professional Hall of Fame control. That's why they can play any game on earth and win it.

Fred
 
buddy one pocket

I heard buddy saying he was done playing tournaments he got to tired to play the long hours ,with the wait in between he was trying to sell a cue though so who knows ,he said he would pop up in a spot or two once in a while,he could hardly walk around the table in his last matches at the music city when i saw him.............axle
 
gulfportdoc said:
The Accustats tape of Buddy crushing Efren is: 1P4-10, Legends of One Pocket IV.

It doesn't sound as though many of y'all have seen Buddy play one-pocket much. He has the same innate ability to see and execute shots and moves as do the other very best players.

I'd put Buddy in the top 10 one-pocket players of today. If he were just a few years younger, I'd put him in the top 5.

Doc
Click to expand...

Yes and it was the final on the winner side, then Efren got shocked again when Shannon came back from down 3-1 and on the brink of elimination to beat Efren 4-3. Then Shannon beat Buddy in the final.

Wayne
 
freddy the beard If you think Im being sacreligious about Buddy said:
Freddie,
I remember in Buddy Hall's "Rags to Rifleman" book that it was said that Buddy always "claimed" he didn't know / like 1 pocket so he could lure people into money matches. I suspect that IF that story is true, that angle didn't last long. I've never heard of Buddy playing in a 14.1 or 8 ball tournament, just 9 ball & the occasional 1 pocket.
This is your 528th post. I only disagreed on 1 of your opinions before (Mataya). This may be the 2nd one I disagree with.
I always respected Varner's 1 pocket game. I don't want to put words in Grady's mouth, but I think he does also, judging from his commentary on the Accu-Stats matches w/ Varner. Here's my question on Varner...Do you mean compared to the greats of "yesteryear" or even by todays standards?
Thanks,
Terry
Click to expand...
 
Buddy and one pocket. Well, perhaps Buddy couldn't find the his pocket with an "Indian Guide" but he does pretty well making it there using his cue as a machete.

Perhaps the one pocket specialists have a slight edge over Buddy in knowledge of the moves they don't have an edge in the execution dpeartment. So if Buddy learns the moves which wouldn't take too long against top players then where will they be if they can't outmove him and can't outshoot him?

I heard a story once that Buddy won $30,000 in Tampa playing a jeweler. The way I heard it was that Buddy's stakehorse set up the game and Buddy arrived at the poolroom without any knowledge of what the game was. The backer had arranged for Buddy to give up 15:8 for 10 dimes a game. Buddy told the backer he wasn't going to give up that spot. So the backer grabs the cue and goes to the table. Buddy asks him what he's doing and the backer says, "the money's posted, somebody has to play." So Buddy plays. And runs 15 and out three times.

A year or so after this happened I played Buddy some friendly one pocket. I asked him if the story was true. He said. "naw, it didn't happen like that, I ran a 15, a 16, and a 17" :-) Gotta love it.

By the way, when Buddy and I matched up he asked me what spot I wanted and I offered to play even. He said, "we don't have to do that, it's not fair." So I said well, "Cliff gives me 10:4" and Buddy said "we certainly don't have to do that". He gave me 10:7 and it wasn't even close. Although, I did put him in some traps that would have given fits to a lot of players he just smooth stroked his way out of them.

Buddy has a stroke ad touch that are almost indescribable. I'll try. When he hits the balls it seems as if the cue stick glides through the cueball. He always seems as if he is barely hitting the cueball and the cueball seems to float rather than roll in response.

I would gladly go broke betting on Buddy Hall in 9 Ball, 10 ball, rotation or one pocket. I think no one on the planet likes playing a fit Buddy Hall.
 
i really enjoy these Buddy Hall stories..IMO there needs to be more of them..thanks to everyone that posted...:)
 
John Barton said:
Buddy and one pocket.

Buddy has a stroke ad touch that are almost indescribable. I'll try. When he hits the balls it seems as if the cue stick glides through the cueball. He always seems as if he is barely hitting the cueball and the cueball seems to float rather than roll in response.
Click to expand...

John,
That paragraph sums up perfectly Buddy's stroke. That was really well stated.
Pros have something they do better than so many others. With Buddy, it was his cue ball control. He made it look effortless.
 
Where does it say how many posts you've made?

Terry Ardeno said:
Freddie,
I remember in Buddy Hall's "Rags to Rifleman" book that it was said that Buddy always "claimed" he didn't know / like 1 pocket so he could lure people into money matches. I suspect that IF that story is true, that angle didn't last long. I've never heard of Buddy playing in a 14.1 or 8 ball tournament, just 9 ball & the occasional 1 pocket.
This is your 528th post. I only disagreed on 1 of your opinions before (Mataya). This may be the 2nd one I disagree with.
I always respected Varner's 1 pocket game. I don't want to put words in Grady's mouth, but I think he does also, judging from his commentary on the Accu-Stats matches w/ Varner. Here's my question on Varner...Do you mean compared to the greats of "yesteryear" or even by todays standards?
Thanks,
Terry
Click to expand...

528 posts?
Firstly, Nick and I have been friends and competitors since his college days when he was intercollegiate champ. Secondly, in truth, few humans can beat him playing 1pkt. Thats not my point. I was fortunate enough to learn the "concept" of the game from Gene Skinner. Since then I look for other players who have been fortunate enough to understand the "concept" of the game. There are not many. For example, I have been playing pool for 50 years and have never gotten the "concept" of straight pool. I dont feel too bad as there are plenty of guys who can run a hundred balls and still dont have the "concept" of straight pool. If you ever seen Mosconi or Irving Crane play that game you would understand that they had the concept, and players who still run balls but have to muscle their way through the rack dont.
My opinion on who has the concept of 1pkt and who doesnt is strictly from a personal point of view. To defend my position logically, I would have to release my version of the concept, which I am not going to do. I enjoy too much being in a concept minority.
People too often confuse skill with knowledge. Nicky and Buddy have superior skills, but IMO have gaping holes in their 1pkt game. Did anybody look at that accu stat tape of Buddy and Marco that I recommended?

the Beard
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top