Blank: Burton Spain
Date: 1967
Note the full splice ebony... hard to come by...
JV
Date: 1967
Note the full splice ebony... hard to come by...
JV
Burton splices
- Thread starter classiccues
- Start date
I'll trade you a 3-point Meucci blank for it. 
johnf_34 said:
No just grainy pics due to the camera phone.
JV
classiccues said:Blank: Burton Spain
Date: 1967
Note the full splice ebony... hard to come by...
JV
Thanks very much for the photo's, I really enjoy seeing these items. One topic you do not here talked about much is the colaberation between Burton Spain, and Dick Helmstetter. The Blanks being made during the early 1970's for the Adam and Helmstetter cues are identical to the splicing technique above.
I have done a number of restorations on Cues for this period, and I have come to the conclusion that thier techniques were the same. I also no that Burton and Dick were friends, but I do not know for certain how far thier relationship went.
Here are some photo's of early Adams Splices:
Please let me know what your thoughs on this subject are.
merylane said:
Because that is when the guy said he bought them. +/- a year.
JV
manwon said:
Craig,
I don't know if there was a relationship between the two and they swapped idea's, or if the Adam guys copied from example. But you are right they look very close. Joel might know if Helmstetter and Spain had conversations.
JV
Pretty sure Burt's book indicated some kind of collaboration, maybe just friendly discussions. Will have to dig that out and check.
I dug mine out and here's what Burton says about their relationship:
"We did a slight amount of business, without really getting to know each other, and then one day he was in Chicago working for National Billiard Chalk, an old company that had dominated the billiard chalk business for many years. [...]
Dick designed a small and very handsome line of cues. There were several models with solid butts... At the top of his line he had two four-prong, inlaid models.
Like Balabushka he bought both the full length rosewood and the 18 inch long ebony blanks. Unlike Balabushka, he cut the ebony blanks short, and put the splice right at the wrap; however, he didn't put any bands at the splice. [...]
I recommended Craig Petersen to Dick and Craig and worked for him for a while. Dick and I became good friends - together we played 3-cushion, fairly well, and golf, pretty badly. (He plays both games very well now). He, and his wife, Jeanine, and I went to restaurants and movies together. I was at their house for a Sunday barbecue when we made a three-way bet to all quit cigarettes. I won that bet in 1968; it might be the last bet that Helmstetter ever lost. Later in 1968, Dick left for Japan and Bob Meucci."
This is what I could find, a great thanks for 'classiccues' for this booklet.
Hope I could help, take care,
"We did a slight amount of business, without really getting to know each other, and then one day he was in Chicago working for National Billiard Chalk, an old company that had dominated the billiard chalk business for many years. [...]
Dick designed a small and very handsome line of cues. There were several models with solid butts... At the top of his line he had two four-prong, inlaid models.
Like Balabushka he bought both the full length rosewood and the 18 inch long ebony blanks. Unlike Balabushka, he cut the ebony blanks short, and put the splice right at the wrap; however, he didn't put any bands at the splice. [...]
I recommended Craig Petersen to Dick and Craig and worked for him for a while. Dick and I became good friends - together we played 3-cushion, fairly well, and golf, pretty badly. (He plays both games very well now). He, and his wife, Jeanine, and I went to restaurants and movies together. I was at their house for a Sunday barbecue when we made a three-way bet to all quit cigarettes. I won that bet in 1968; it might be the last bet that Helmstetter ever lost. Later in 1968, Dick left for Japan and Bob Meucci."
This is what I could find, a great thanks for 'classiccues' for this booklet.
Hope I could help, take care,
poohkiller said:
Well Guy's here is what I have on this subject. I have been interested in the contributions of the fore-fathers of cue making in this country. I have researched this subject and hope that additional information may come to light. Here are some items I have in my collection:
Here are some books I have in my collection:
Here are some photo's of documents of items Burton was selling for Dick Helmstetter, along with Burtons comments concerning the quality of Adam Cues.
Here are the photo's of cues for sale that are talked about in the above document:
I think there may have been more to Burtons involvment with Dick Helmstetter than is currently know. I also think there may have been some colabaration between the two gentlemen when it comes to forearm splicing techniques and cue construction in general than is currently known.
Have a good day!!!!
Craig, you have some great documents!!! Thank you for sharing them here, it means a lot to me!
I "only" own the first two booklets - 'Autobiographical Sketches' and 'Recollections of Burton Spain' - needless to say I have read both them more than a hundred times.
I "only" own the first two booklets - 'Autobiographical Sketches' and 'Recollections of Burton Spain' - needless to say I have read both them more than a hundred times.
Thanks for the information guys..this thread is great!!
Regards,
Duc.
Regards,
Duc.
As far as I know he has had two two books - those that can be seen on manwon's first photo in the 14th post of this thread.
On the other hand I don't know when were these published exactly but I place my guess for the early '90s.
It's 7:09 am here and I'm in a bit of a hurry but I will check my copies for proofs - however if anyone knows the exact date please enlighten us
During his career Burton has released some sort of catalogs and advertisement issues in which he mentioned his splicing technique and his unique joint system - there's another way where Dick could have found information...
...Yet I believe that they were in a relationship strong enough to share these things with each other and I don't really think that DH had to look through booklets to find something out about Burton - as he could have asked it from him.
This would be my guess based on what I have read about their relationship - if anyone knows something certain, please do share it here.
This is a great thread, thank you all for sharing what you have!
On the other hand I don't know when were these published exactly but I place my guess for the early '90s.
It's 7:09 am here and I'm in a bit of a hurry but I will check my copies for proofs - however if anyone knows the exact date please enlighten us
During his career Burton has released some sort of catalogs and advertisement issues in which he mentioned his splicing technique and his unique joint system - there's another way where Dick could have found information...
...Yet I believe that they were in a relationship strong enough to share these things with each other and I don't really think that DH had to look through booklets to find something out about Burton - as he could have asked it from him.
This would be my guess based on what I have read about their relationship - if anyone knows something certain, please do share it here.
This is a great thread, thank you all for sharing what you have!
poohkiller said:As far as I know he has had two two books - those that can be seen on manwon's first photo in the 14th post of this thread.
On the other hand I don't know when were these published exactly but I place my guess for the early '90s.
It's 7:09 am here and I'm in a bit of a hurry but I will check my copies for proofs - however if anyone knows the exact date please enlighten us
During his career Burton has released some sort of catalogs and advertisement issues in which he mentioned his splicing technique and his unique joint system - there's another way where Dick could have found information...
...Yet I believe that they were in a relationship strong enough to share these things with each other and I don't really think that DH had to look through booklets to find something out about Burton - as he could have asked it from him.
This would be my guess based on what I have read about their relationship - if anyone knows something certain, please do share it here.
This is a great thread, thank you all for sharing what you have!
I also think this is a great thread, and a great deal of useful information is coming out it. As you said above, I also think that their relationship was more than just acquaintances.
I mean would it make sense that someone would start off the below document as Burton started it, considering the fact that were competitors in the same market!!
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