Butt Stiffness

S

Shevek

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been told that it's a bad idea to make butts out of a single piece of wood because the result would play too stiff. This is one of those subjective things right? I moved away from Predator to Pechauer a couple months ago when the light went on that I had been playing with a cue that was too flexy. I get much better cue ball control with the stiffer Pechauer. But this obviously has much more to do with the difference in shafts than anything else. So is butt stiffness a way to fine tune the hit? How significant is this parameter? I was thinking that a nice piece of curly purpleheart with some simple ring work would make a wonderful, inexpensive first custom cue for me, that could later on be used as a break cue. And is there a warpage issue with a butt made from a single piece of wood? Heck, I was thinking that cored sleeves meant that there was a fairly small diameter (.750) internal wood piece. Wouldn't that be even more susceptible to warpage?

So would the second stiffest butt be a butterfly splice, followed by a full/four-finger splice, then a half splice construction would be the least stiff butt? I'm not sure if butt stiffness would be a factor for me at this stage of the game. I can feel the difference between joints, shaft tapers, (tips obviously), and recently realized I even have ferrule preferences now. But I just don't know if I have the game to feel differences in the way but construction - or types of wood, for that matter - would play. But I'm asking the questions now to learn as I go. So how significant is this issue?

Would Chris Hightower's book go into things at this level? I'm mainly concerned with cue construction in terms of how it affects playability.
 
cue's playability

Keep practicing and trying different equipment. The "Holy Grail" of cues awaits you. You will develop your own requirements for your final playing cue with "years of practice and testing and maturation". No one can tell you the final outcome. Only you can find it through your search and what you put in it.
Tom Gedris, Triple Cross Cues:cool:
 
i've heard that the reason for the a joint instead of a one piece but was to help prevent warping. i have heard that having stiffer woods spliced into the forearm will stiffen up the hit. i don't know much though
 
I've been told that it's a bad idea to make butts out of a single piece of wood because the result would play too stiff.
Who told you that?
The taper/diameter the first half of the butt has more to do ( aside from wood choice ) with the stiffness of the butt.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I've been told that it's a bad idea to make butts out of a single piece of wood because the result would play too stiff.
Who told you that?
The taper/diameter the first half of the butt has more to do ( aside from wood choice ) with the stiffness of the butt.
Click to expand...

Now that you mention wood choice, I could be taking what he said out of context. He was saying that a single piece butt made of *purpleheart* would be too stiff (or was he the guy that said potential warpage was the problem?) Anyway, I'd rather not get into who said what, because I don't want to de-rep anyone or myself. Just consider this a general question. I'm looking to learn.

Thanks
Don
 
Shevek said:
Now that you mention wood choice, I could be taking what he said out of context. He was saying that a single piece butt made of *purpleheart* would be too stiff (or was he the guy that said potential warpage was the problem?) Anyway, I'd rather not get into who said what, because I don't want to de-rep anyone or myself. Just consider this a general question. I'm looking to learn.

Thanks
Don
Click to expand...
All purpleheart would be heavy, stiff and pingy.
 
Shevek said:
Now that you mention wood choice, I could be taking what he said out of context. He was saying that a single piece butt made of *purpleheart* would be too stiff (or was he the guy that said potential warpage was the problem?) Anyway, I'd rather not get into who said what, because I don't want to de-rep anyone or myself. Just consider this a general question. I'm looking to learn.

Thanks
Don
Click to expand...

Try reinforced concrete vs pure concrete ? :confused:
 
i think Purpleheart would be fine as a one piece butt,also Zircote,Bocote,Bubinga,Maple would be allright if you like a 16-17 oz cue.i think all the others i mentioned would be 18-20oz no problem.

Purpleheart probably would be the pingiest of them as Joey said,but i like the crisp hit of PH.
 
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i dont think a one pc cue would play any stiffer that a traditional a joint cue. wood selection and taper play more of a roll in that just as joey said. i wouldnt do the one piece thing. some of the cheaper players or action decal cues are one piece cues i believe. ive done rewraps on them and they seemed one pieve. also a mid 80's mcdermott rose i think was a one piece cue. i was refinishing it but ended up trading it
 
dave sutton said:
i dont think a one pc cue would play any stiffer that a traditional a joint cue. wood selection and taper play more of a roll in that just as joey said.
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What about coring or laminating ?
 
I build one piece butt cues somewhat often. I like them. Purpleheart is one of my favorite woods to use for this application, as is shedua, rosewood & maple. They all hit fine. I got some curly Jatoba that'll be one piece butt cues pretty soon. Padauk is good for this, too.

The biggest problem, the only problem, I can think of trying to use one solid piece of wood as a butt is warpage. A 29" piece will be more likely to warp than a 12" piece. But in the end it's not an issue if the builder knows what he's doing. I love the feel of one piece butt cues. I honestly cannot think of a single reason to not go that route, other than visual design. A one piece butt has got to be made of some impressive looking wood or it'll be pretty ugly.
 
I have an old John Kornkee custom cue that is 1 piece purpleheart butt with shedua joint collars and it is still straight and plays very good, I won it off of Ebay several years ago and it was shipped from somewhere in The Berkshires and made in Florida years earlier and marked JQ at the joint. I won the auction at a very good price and was really surprised at how nice the cue looks, feels and plays.--Leonard
 
Shevek said:
I was thinking that a nice piece of curly purpleheart with some simple ring work would make a wonderful, inexpensive first custom cue for me, that could later on be used as a break cue. And is there a warpage issue with a butt made from a single piece of wood?
Click to expand...

I have a solid purple heart butt (no points nor inlays, just rings at ABE) from Viattorre Custom Cues which took about 15 months to make. I asked Jackson why it took so long to make the cue than a segmented one and he said that it's harder to make a solid butt since the probability of the wood to warp is higher with 1pc butts than a segmented one DURING construction when the wood is being turned. The wood has to be cut carefully and will need quite a long time to "rest" before it can be cut again. Surprisingly, the solid purple heart wasn't heavy at all and it didn't need to be cored! It weighs 419g or 14.78oz (w/ 3/8x11 brass pin; w/ shaft the entire cue weighs 18.7oz), and by no means was it inexpensive :rolleyes:

Once the cue is finished, the warpage issue, as far as the cue butt is concerned, will come from the sudden changes in temperature not much by humidity as the butt is already "coated" by the finish. I believe this is more of the responsibility of the OWNER and not of the MAKER or even his construction techniques.

Going back, I have solid butt cues & segmented cues, and I find myself always going back the 1pc butts. To me, their "feel" is truer. The solid Purple Heart has become my favorite player ever since... and that crisp "PING" has always been music to my ears ;)
 
Merry Widow

I hope not to offend any of the talented cuemakers here but I find the merry widow issue very ironic.
Many stick makers reccomend against getting one trying to scare you with comments like it will warp or it will be to heavy or you have to core it. but what about these facts.....

1.shorter blanks of wood cost less than larger blanks (less cost equals more profit for stick maker)

2.shorter blanks are less likely to warp (means you can work the wood sooner which means more cues can be made again more profit for cuemaker)

3.Shorter blanks less likely to find a defect 18 inches over 36 inches (if defect is found it can be cut out of the 36 and still used as a forearm or handle but you can't do the reverse so again win win situation using shorter blanks for the cuemaker)

4.Like stated in 1 of the other threads a merry widow built right has to be cut down in stages over time as to not shock the wood (more time between cues equal less profits another reason to use shorter blanks)

5.Shorter blanks easier to handle work with and ship (another reason for using)

6.Its much more time consuming if you do add inlays to a solid cue by using a dremel or exacto than current construction methods with a shorter blank(more time equals less profit yet another reason to use shorter blanks)

What I find ironic is that a true well built "plain jane or Merry widow" looks like less went into building it but actually it could have

A.Cost much more for a good 1 piece blank with no defects aged adryed properly
B.taken much more steps in the turning down process than a "normal" cue
C.Harder to work on the lathe and any mistake and you have to throw the whole thing away not just replace the bad part.

I own a merry and absoluly luv it built from Jarrah. I am having some more cues made tweeking the taper slightly and testing other woods. (AGAIN THE QUEST FOR THAT HOLY GRAIL CUE). It took years for me to mature and not have to have all the fancy points and inlays to show off my cue.

I know and my cuemaker(true craftsman) knows what goes into a well built merry widow

Plus I luv to see the faces of the young players holding their "status symbol" saying you paid how much for that cue with no inlays you got taken to the cleaners.
While they pay me game after game and until they try it and the light comes on and that eternal question enters their head
Which is more important looks or playability?

Again this is MY opinion and not the views of of AZer's

any reuse of this thread without the written consent of
Oprah or the NFL is strictly forrbidden
 
Rak9up said:
Many stick makers reccomend against getting one trying to scare you with comments like it will warp or it will be to heavy or you have to core it. but what about these facts.....

1.shorter blanks of wood cost less than larger blanks (less cost equals more profit for stick maker)

2.shorter blanks are less likely to warp (means you can work the wood sooner which means more cues can be made again more profit for cuemaker)

3.Shorter blanks less likely to find a defect 18 inches over 36 inches (if defect is found it can be cut out of the 36 and still used as a forearm or handle but you can't do the reverse so again win win situation using shorter blanks for the cuemaker)

4.Like stated in 1 of the other threads a merry widow built right has to be cut down in stages over time as to not shock the wood (more time between cues equal less profits another reason to use shorter blanks)

5.Shorter blanks easier to handle work with and ship (another reason for using)

6.Its much more time consuming if you do add inlays to a solid cue by using a dremel or exacto than current construction methods with a shorter blank(more time equals less profit yet another reason to use shorter blanks)

What I find ironic is that a true well built "plain jane or Merry widow" looks like less went into building it but actually it could have

A.Cost much more for a good 1 piece blank with no defects aged adryed properly
B.taken much more steps in the turning down process than a "normal" cue
C.Harder to work on the lathe and any mistake and you have to throw the whole thing away not just replace the bad part.
Click to expand...
I called Oprah and the NFL. They both said I could reuse this info.

My response to your post is here
 
Helluva response Tell It!:grin:

Martin


TellsItLikeItIs said:
I called Oprah and the NFL. They both said I could reuse this info.

My response to your post is here
Click to expand...
 
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