Butterfly Points

Cue Guru said:
Um... I thought that you guys would know that the jointer is for doing the male V not the female one...

I used a similar set up to do the lap joint for attaching the headstock to the neck. 11 degrees in that case; in this case about 3 degrees.

No, it's NOT easy. Someone asked how, and that is (in a nut shell) how.

I take a lot of heat from you 'established' cue makers, while I am just a hobbist. However, I am capable of the work, and the only person I feel the need to prove that to is myself.

I feel like you guys are all against me here rather than being a supportive family. I hope this is not the case...
Click to expand...
Nobodys against you Guru. I believe what youre trying to do is build a website with good and accurate info. I commend you for that.
The thing is youre attempting to apply what youve learned in guitar making to cue making. Sometimes it applies but most times it does not.
Im not a Luthier and dont want to be but I do know woodworking and metal working machinery as well as I know my own hands.

Your description of how to cut the male angle and the V groove was reversed. Go back and read hopefully youll see what I mean.

Using a jointer to cut the male component of the handle will work as far as getting an angle cut but a jointer will not do the job as accurately as
it needs to be. In a majority of cases thats done with either a table saw and jig a band saw and jig or a milling machine. The primary purpose of
a jointer is to make two sides square to each other or cut to a certain angle depending on how the fence is set.

Shave a piece of material with a jointer on one side then shave the other side and attempt to take off exactly the same amount of material
and youll find your discrepancy can be huge. Theres no way to acccurately take of the same amount from each side. You know what happens
then right? Even the thickness of the veneers can effect point length but Im sure you knew that.

As far as taking heat from established cue makers-Heres some thought for you. This is how some of us make our living. Im semi-retired now but I
still have the need and desire to do things the right way. When I quit breathing thats when Ill quit caring about the correctness and accuracy of my
trade. In the meantime if I see something that could effect the professionalism of the upcoming cue makers I will say something. If that hurts your
feelings all I can say is oh well. Thats not meant to be ugly by the way.

Will I help someone that asks for and needs the help? Of course I will. Will I teach someone in a forum my profession something its taken me nearly
a lifetime to learn? Absolutely not. If I show you you might forget. If you learn it on your own youll never forget.

Dont feel like youre the only one that is occasionally criticised. Look at photos of some of the big time cue makers. Study them close and look for
discrepanies then decide how they could have been avoided. Believe me you can learn a lot just by photos.

Case in point. A cue in the cue gallery right now has a discrepancy that to me is amazing someone hasn't said something over. A beautiful
cue with a sore on it that sticks out like caca.

all for what its worth. No harm meant.
 
I hear you!

When I did my first full-splice about 10 years ago, there was no information out there, besides Burton's book, which, accompanied by conversations with Barry Szamboti, was all I had to help me make that first cue. It was Barry who told me his dad was using a Radial Arm saw to do the forearms, and that is what I used as well. (it works great by the way).

The cue I made is hideously ugly, but it was the best I could do at the time.

If I had the information I have now back then, the outcome of that cue would have been very different!

Once my shop is back together (another moth or so hopefully!) I will attempt to get back into making full splice blanks. I have a load of new ideas to try and think it will make some nice stuff. Time will tell...

I had to make a rather complicated jig to get that precise angle for my lap joint that I did on the jointer. I totally agree with you: you cannot simply flip it and assume to get the same amount off of each side, but the most difficult part of it I found was simply holding that angle with acceptable precision.

Using a table saw would be easier to hold the angle precision; however in my case I was not satisfied with the finish I achieved that way (even thought I had a 12" blade with a billion teeth on it). The joint was much cleaner when I used the jointer.

I attached a sheet I drew up for determining point length based on rise over 12 of the forearm and handle angle. I devised this method because trying to accurately measure the angle is nearly impossible as it is into minutes and seconds of angle...

PS I verified this method is acurate based on the final outcome of my first full-splice and how I jigged it when I made the parts, so I know it works in 'real life' too...
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Burtons Book

Cue Guru said:
I hear you!

When I did my first full-splice about 10 years ago, there was no information out there, besides Burton's book, which, accompanied by conversations with Barry Szamboti, was all I had to help me make that first cue. It was Barry who told me his dad was using a Radial Arm saw to do the forearms, and that is what I used as well. (it works great by the way).

The cue I made is hideously ugly, but it was the best I could do at the time.

If I had the information I have now back then, the outcome of that cue would have been very different!

Once my shop is back together (another moth or so hopefully!) I will attempt to get back into making full splice blanks. I have a load of new ideas to try and think it will make some nice stuff. Time will tell...

I had to make a rather complicated jig to get that precise angle for my lap joint that I did on the jointer. I totally agree with you: you cannot simply flip it and assume to get the same amount off of each side, but the most difficult part of it I found was simply holding that angle with acceptable precision.

Using a table saw would be easier to hold the angle precision; however in my case I was not satisfied with the finish I achieved that way (even thought I had a 12" blade with a billion teeth on it). The joint was much cleaner when I used the jointer.

I attached a sheet I drew up for determining point length based on rise over 12 of the forearm and handle angle. I devised this method because trying to accurately measure the angle is nearly impossible as it is into minutes and seconds of angle...

PS I verified this method is acurate based on the final outcome of my first full-splice and how I jigged it when I made the parts, so I know it works in 'real life' too...
Click to expand...

Anyone know where I can find this book??

Thanks
 
Joel had some that he was giving to customers when they ordered a cue; but has since run out. I asked recently.

I have a copy but cannot put my hands on it. I am hoping I can find it once I get settled in the new house.

I heard someone here was going to scan it and make it available, but I have not seen it yet (maybe I missed it?).
 
Butterfly cues

3-Finger John is the mans name that uses a jointer for making cues that way!!!
 
Here are a few of pics of my Fanelli in the early stages. This should easily help you figure out how it is done. :D


2405651050102984961S600x600Q85.jpg


2689552480102984961S600x600Q85.jpg
 
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