Call shot rules question

[VIProfessor]

Here's the situation: In a tournament match presided over by a referee, a player is lining up on a ball hanging in the corner pocket and calls "14 in the corner". In reality, however, he has called the wrong number and the ball is actually the 15. Does the referee declare his turn over, or does he award him the shot on the basis that the shot was obvious? We're playing by BCAPL rules, but haven't found anything in the rulebook to address this particular situation. As such input from Mark, Jay and all others who know these things would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!!

 

[JC]

Here's the situation: In a tournament match presided over by a referee, a player is lining up on a ball hanging in the corner pocket and calls "14 in the corner". In reality, however, he has called the wrong number and the ball is actually the 15. Does the referee declare his turn over, or does he award him the shot on the basis that the shot was obvious? We're playing by BCAPL rules, but haven't found anything in the rulebook to address this particular situation. As such input from Mark, Jay and all others who know these things would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!!

That's why you shouldn't call obvious shots. Was the 14 even on the table? Who would bust anyone's balls over this? If I was the referee I would call a foul on the opponent for being such a nit and wasting my time. But that's just me.

JC

 

[OnTheMF]

Here's the situation: In a tournament match presided over by a referee, a player is lining up on a ball hanging in the corner pocket and calls "14 in the corner". In reality, however, he has called the wrong number and the ball is actually the 15. Does the referee declare his turn over, or does he award him the shot on the basis that the shot was obvious? We're playing by BCAPL rules, but haven't found anything in the rulebook to address this particular situation. As such input from Mark, Jay and all others who know these things would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!!

I'd like to know the official way this situation is handled too. This happened to me in the past and I've never been 100% satisfied with the ruling.

Basically the same situation happened, except it was in the semi-finals for our team playoffs. The match was worth ~$1000. It was my opponent's opening shot and he called the 12, which was on the table near the pocket he was shooting (and was a makable ball). Then he proceeded to shoot the 10, which was the ball he was obviously lined up for. I called him on it, we got the ref over, and the ref said "as long as the intended shot was made it's still his turn and a legally pocketed ball." That kind of defeats the purpose of call shot, so I didn't really agree, but I didn't argue further because I knew that would affect my play and I can beat the guy regardless (and I did).

 

[Pushout]

Here's the situation: In a tournament match presided over by a referee, a player is lining up on a ball hanging in the corner pocket and calls "14 in the corner". In reality, however, he has called the wrong number and the ball is actually the 15. Does the referee declare his turn over, or does he award him the shot on the basis that the shot was obvious? We're playing by BCAPL rules, but haven't found anything in the rulebook to address this particular situation. As such input from Mark, Jay and all others who know these things would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!!

Back in the '70s I was reffing a Straight pool tournament and calling shots as the players took them. I called a ball and the player shot another. As the player didn't correct me, I had to call a foul. Common in that time period.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

I don't know if I understand the problem here. If you are required to call the ball and pocket and fail to do so you lose your turn.

 

[Pushout]

I don't know if I understand the problem here. If you are required to call the ball and pocket and fail to do so you lose your turn.

He's saying the shooter called the wrong number, whether he meant to pocket that ball or not. Even if obvious and he called the wrong number, I'd say he'd lose his turn.

 

[pt109]

I'm not calling him on it.
An age old problem...the spirit of the law vs the letter of the law.

You know he made the ball he intended.
This is not some kid's game like 'red light/green light.

 

[PC_John]

I'd like to know the official way this situation is handled too. This happened to me in the past and I've never been 100% satisfied with the ruling.

Basically the same situation happened, except it was in the semi-finals for our team playoffs. The match was worth ~$1000. It was my opponent's opening shot and he called the 12, which was on the table near the pocket he was shooting (and was a makable ball). Then he proceeded to shoot the 10, which was the ball he was obviously lined up for. I called him on it, we got the ref over, and the ref said "as long as the intended shot was made it's still his turn and a legally pocketed ball." That kind of defeats the purpose of call shot, so I didn't really agree, but I didn't argue further because I knew that would affect my play and I can beat the guy regardless (and I did).

imo, this is the correct call. Just because there is a dollar involved should not mean that honesty and integrity is out the window. :boring2:

 

[TheNewSharkster]

He's saying the shooter called the wrong number, whether he meant to pocket that ball or not. Even if obvious and he called the wrong number, I'd say he'd lose his turn.

He called the wrong ball. If the rules say you need to call the ball and the player fails to do so then that is a loss of turn. Not saying I agree with it. When that happens in a game I let it slide without blinking an eye but the rules seem clear to me.

 

[randy maha]

2 cents worth (before taxes)

Every rule has a "spirit&intent" I believe it is in the best intrest of the game as well as keeping a level playing field. Why does an error on my part(wrong ball) benefit me (who made the error) and penalizes my opponent sitting in a chair watching me get a break. Why shouldn't I have the integrity to call a foul or just accept the fact that I screwed up and go sit down. The rules are the rules and "carte blanche" interpretations take away from this integrity.Having said that there is another caveat that plays a role here....IMO The referee! As an Authority having Jurisdiction a certain amount of essential human-ness becomes part of the game.IE: the cop doesn't always give you a ticket.I'm a strong believer in the rules thus I have an obligation to to strive for fairness even when I bite my own ass from time to time. I can live with that. Just my thoughts.

 

[BeiberLvr]

He called the wrong ball. If the rules say you need to call the ball and the player fails to do so then that is a loss of turn. Not saying I agree with it. When that happens in a game I let it slide without blinking an eye but the rules seem clear to me.

And a cop (unless he or she has nothing better to do) will never pull you over for doing 48 in a 45.

 

[robsnotes4u]

Correct

That's why you shouldn't call obvious shots. Was the 14 even on the table? Who would bust anyone's balls over this? If I was the referee I would call a foul on the opponent for being such a nit and wasting my time. But that's just me.

JC

Great answer

I am with you all the way, if that is the only way you can win, then quit playing. I had a friend who would pull shit like this all the time. It use to piss the rest of the team off. It made us all look like crap. All I can say is are you serious.

 

[tatcat2000]

quick official BCAPL response...

I'm at work right now and can't give this the time it deserves. Quick answer to the exact situation described in OP post...shot is most likely credited to shooter and shooter will continue. There could conceivably be other circumstances, but that is the most likely outcome. Will post details and references later...

Buddy

 

[flash5153]

I have seen some jack wagons call a foul because the (8 ball)pocket marker was touching the first diamond. Just barely touching it. And the rule is,,the marker has to be inside the diamond,,completely.
And this after the player put it there,,obviously calling that pocket!!! And this seems to be a fairly common thing now a days.

The refs agree it is a foul. Valley pool BTW.

So if that is a foul,,,this would also be a foul.

If you are a jack wagon,,,it's a foul!!!

Another dirty trick I have witnessed first hand,,,,is when there is no shot for my opponent. He looks right at me,,and touches the cue with his stick. Moving it no where,,,and has a smile on his face.

Then you/me walk up and pick the ball up,,,,and he calls foul!!!! Gets a ref over and ,,yep,,I didn't ask if it was BIH. It's now his shot.


Things like this will get you hurt ,,,but there are Jack arses out there doing it.


I don't play that crap. I would not call foul in any of these situations. Welll,,,unless he is the person I referred to above!!!

If this crap continues,,,the game will be a bunch of sissys playing whinner pool in the coming years!!!

 

[Bob Jewett]

Back in the '70s I was reffing a Straight pool tournament and calling shots as the players took them. I called a ball and the player shot another. As the player didn't correct me, I had to call a foul. Common in that time period.

You made a mistake. The player should not be penalized because of a mistake by the referee. In any case, it would not be a foul. If you were satisfied that the player made the obviously intended shot, it should count.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I'm not calling him on it.
An age old problem...the spirit of the law vs the letter of the law.

You know he made the ball he intended.
This is not some kid's game like 'red light/green light.

Agreed. Well said. And....I do not want to 'win' because someone simply mis-speaks, I want to win because I'm the better player not the better speaker.

Now if it was not obvious then that might be a different situation.

 

[PoolBum]

Back in the '70s I was reffing a Straight pool tournament and calling shots as the players took them. I called a ball and the player shot another. As the player didn't correct me, I had to call a foul. Common in that time period.

This seems odd to me. I remember seeing this happen a few times where the referee mistakenly called the wrong ball and the player then pocketed the ball he clearly had intended to pocket all along. In each case the referee immediately corrected himself and the player at the table continued shooting.

 

[Pushout]

You made a mistake. The player should not be penalized because of a mistake by the referee. In any case, it would not be a foul. If you were satisfied that the player made the obviously intended shot, it should count.

I consulted the TD was told I made the right call. I did what I was told to do. The players were told this before the matches started also.
Edit: Sorry, I just realized that I stated that I called a foul. I did not but it was ruled loss of turn.

 

[Bumpa]

JC -

I agree. Obvious shots do not have to be called. However, when a player calls a shot and sinks the wrong ball, it is a foul.

This reminds me of a person saying, "You should listen to what I mean, not what I say."

Rick
---------------
> That's why you shouldn't call obvious shots. Was the 14 even on the
> table? Who would bust anyone's balls over this? If I was the referee
> I would call a foul on the opponent for being such a nit and wasting my
> time. But that's just me.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I've played guys that would call that on a person. I got sucked into the BIH
trick by the same guy one night. I said, ya know, you're right and if you need the game that bad, take your ball in hand.

I won anyway.