Call the hit: Me vs Ghost

cubswin said:
The way the 3 came off, I'd say it was a foul. However not sure I could have called it a foul if I was watching the hit without recording it on my phone. Bang/bang hit.
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That was my initial thought, but on a thin enough hit on the 3, the 3-ball action could be the result of a second contact with the 3. I.e., CB could graze the 3, hit the 9, and hit the 3 again from below and send the 3 uptable.

I can't say for sure, so tie goes to the shooter. Good hit. More precisely, a good enough hit.
 
Watch it twice, each time with the expectation in mind. It's clearly a bad hit. With that in mind as you watch, the 9 moves and only then does the cue move as you'd expect and hit the 3.

PS: ... And then watch it a few more times and vacillate. I can't call it even after watching 10 more times.
 
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Well I'm glad this thread has produced good discussion! ha ha.

Most of you are judging the hit based on the youtube 1/8th speed slow motion of the video. What about if you only watch it in full speed? What about the paths of the balls?
 
iba7467 said:
Bad hit. I paused the video a few times hoping to catch impact, but did not want to take more than a couple minutes. Here is the closest I caught to impact. It is on track for the three.
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That pic was also the closest I could get at 1/4 speed. This is one of those rare shots where the tangent lines off each ball put the cb going in the same direction. Which is what makes it so hard to tell the actual hit.

Maybe someone can do a frame by frame look at it. (I forgot how to do that.:o)
 
Nearly impossible to call from that angle. Surprisingly I see a lot of refs try to call shots from places like that. Here is a little tidbit for you would be refs - Stand where the cue ball is coming directly toward you to make a call like this. It is a fallacy to think that you must stand out of a shooters line of sight. Just stand still and watch closely and you can make the right call. In this case I would be standing close to the second diamond and looking directly at the cue ball's path toward the three/nine. I would want to be as close as possible to the hit, even standing over the balls and looking down on them at the moment of contact. In this particular case I think the player was successful in playing the billiard on the nine ball to win the game.
 
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The Answer:)

When I was eying up the shot, I knew it was going to be super, super close. I was not even sure I could get deep enough for the carom to go. It was not laying right, even with a lot of spin on the CB. That's why the 9 hit the rail before the pocket.

I put my iPhone on the rail before taking the shot, and set it to slow motion at 240 frames per second. The overhead video from the first post was at 30 frames per second, and of course 10 feet away.

When I hit the shot, I thought it was good. It "felt" like I hit the 3 first. But when I looked at where the CB ended up, I said to myself it must have been bad if the CB went there. Then I went to check the phone.

Incidentally, at 240 frames per second, 1 frame before impact, neither ball was in motion, and the following frame both balls were in motion. So even at that frame rate, you can't determine which ball was hit first without some pool knowledge. Note, I'm talking about on my iMovie software, built into my iphone, where I can step frame by frame on the original source video file. I think youtube might cut out some frames.

Anyway, the youtube video is good enough to show what happened.

GOOD HIT:)

Slow Motion Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmS9cSBn95A
 
Cory in DC said:
That was my initial thought, but on a thin enough hit on the 3, the 3-ball action could be the result of a second contact with the 3. I.e., CB could graze the 3, hit the 9, and hit the 3 again from below and send the 3 uptable.

I can't say for sure, so tie goes to the shooter. Good hit. More precisely, a good enough hit.
Click to expand...

You were exactly correct:thumbup:
 
iusedtoberich said:
When I was eying up the shot, I knew it was going to be super, super close. I was not even sure I could get deep enough for the carom to go. It was not laying right, even with a lot of spin on the CB. That's why the 9 hit the rail before the pocket.

I put my iPhone on the rail before taking the shot, and set it to slow motion at 240 frames per second. The overhead video from the first post was at 30 frames per second, and of course 10 feet away.

When I hit the shot, I thought it was good. It "felt" like I hit the 3 first. But when I looked at where the CB ended up, I said to myself it must have been bad if the CB went there. Then I went to check the phone.

Incidentally, at 240 frames per second, 1 frame before impact, neither ball was in motion, and the following frame both balls were in motion. So even at that frame rate, you can't determine which ball was hit first without some pool knowledge. Note, I'm talking about on my iMovie software, built into my iphone, where I can step frame by frame on the original source video file. I think youtube might cut out some frames.

Anyway, the youtube video is good enough to show what happened.

GOOD HIT:)

Slow Motion Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmS9cSBn95A
Click to expand...

Watching that video at 1/4 speed, you hit the three first. And the cb did hit the three twice. Good hit.
 
I think it's a good hit. The reason the 3 goes that way is because it came off the rail and hit the cue ball again.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
 
iusedtoberich said:
I promise you had an optical delusion;)

Here is the last video I made for you, ha ha. Time to rest up for the morning day job...

https://youtu.be/i-Dg-jZIddo
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At about 40 seconds in your video, it looks like the 3-ball moved a hair farther than the 9 ball. Since the angle of approach to the two balls was about the same, that would imply the 3 was hit first by a tiny amount. However, that could be an artifact of the camera angle.

I also find your perpendicular argument logical. Good hit!

The video and software are pretty cool, thanks for posting. Dr. Dave should be jealous!

In general, all calls that can only be resolved with frame-by-frame video should probably go to the shooter.
 
Cory in DC said:
That was my initial thought, but on a thin enough hit on the 3, the 3-ball action could be the result of a second contact with the 3. I.e., CB could graze the 3, hit the 9, and hit the 3 again from below and send the 3 uptable.

I can't say for sure, so tie goes to the shooter. Good hit. More precisely, a good enough hit.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. The shot is one of those that is legal if you barely feather the 3 before the nine and barely wiggle it and a foul if you barely miss the three going in and then hit it off the nine. Both will result in the same action on the balls.

Here's the rule:

27. SPLIT HITS
If the cue ball strikes a legal object ball and a non-legal object ball at approximately the same instant, and it cannot be determined which ball was hit first, it will be assumed that the legal target was struck first.
​

The video is not too useful except that it gives a pretty good idea of what a referee would have to deal with on the shot. If it had 10 times as many frames per second it might show fair/foul.

(Remember that "." and "," on YouTube do single-frame forward and back.)
 
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cubswin said:
The way the 3 came off, I'd say it was a foul. However not sure I could have called it a foul if I was watching the hit without recording it on my phone. Bang/bang hit.
Click to expand...

First glance I thought this.

Second Glance using frame by frame on youtube, I still think this. Looks as if you hit the 9 first and the 3 double kissed the cueball sending it in the opposite direction.

In real life though, shot goes to the shooter. I don't think many refs would straight up call that a foul.
 
Better question is, did you get out...?

I say good hit. Only after slo-mo. Without it, I first said foul.
 
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