Can anyone please explain what this means

BPG24

BPG24

Banned
"In 9 ball, the player that keeps control of the table wins. You do not have to be the better player to keep control of the table, nor do you have to be the better player to make the 9 ball 7 times before your opponent... Luck also plays a role"


This is a quote I made in another thread. We were talking about short tournament races to 7 and whether or not the best player is a big favorite in the short race. For some reason the 2 people that read it and responded can't understand what it means. Let's hear your thoughts on what it means. i think it is pretty clear, but for some reason people are struggling with it

I also explained that I have beaten players in this format that were much better than me, and I have lost to players that I should have beaten easily. Just giving examples
 
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BPG24 said:
"In 9 ball, the player that keeps control of the table wins. You do not have to be the better player to keep control of the table, nor do you have to be the better player to make the 9 ball 7 times before your opponent... Luck also plays a role"


This is a quote I made in another thread. We were talking about short tournament races to 7 and whether or not the best player is a big favorite in the short race. For some reason the 2 people that read it and responded can't understand what it means. Let's hear your thoughts on what it means. i think it is pretty clear, but for some reason people are struggling with it

I also explained that I have beaten player in this format that were much better than me, and I have lost to players that I should have beaten easily. Just giving examples
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Who the hell cares??? It's time for you to just let it go...

You were already dispelled in the Allison Fisher thread...
Now you want to start another whole thread, in the hopes that someone will finally agree with you... Why? So you can re-hash and regurgitate the same old argument.

Totally asinine... Waste of time...

As has already been expressed to you, it's time to move on...
Let go, Luke...
 
FLICKit said:
Who the hell cares??? It's time for you to just let it go...

You were already dispelled in the Allison Fisher thread...
Now you want to start another whole thread, in the hopes that someone will finally agree with you... Why? So you can re-hash and regurgitate the same old argument.

Totally asinine... Waste of time...

As has already been expressed to you, it's time to move on...
Let go, Luke...
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The problem is people like you who can't understand what they read. You took this statement I made and turned it into something completely different than what it is. I even explained it to you and you still don't get it.

You are the one who needs to realize that you are wrong, admit it and move on, that is why I started this thread.
Anyone who reads my comment and turns it into what you did, is either uneducated or just trying to start problems. You will see, when everyone responds.
 
Ok Dorothy... Click your ruby red slippers and repeat, "there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home".
 
FLICKit said:
Ok Dorothy... Click your ruby red slippers and repeat, "there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home".
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Grow up, PLEASE

I was going to let you see that you were wrong without showing your screen name. Since you decided to show us all that you were one of the two that I was talking about. Let me be the first to congratulate you. Well done sir, now everyone can go back and see what you did

I see that you also talked trash about me in another topic that I wasn't even posting in. Thanks for helping to prove me right.
 
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Johnnyt said:
It means we should be playing 14.1 to take 95% of the luck out of it. Johnnyt
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I guess you mean that would fix the problem. In that case you are right. 14.1 and 1 pocket are better games. Alot of pros talk about how much they hate playing 9 ball in general.

My quote is about short races in 9 ball and the fact that the best player doesn't have to win. Luck is only a small portion of it and not the point of my quote
In 9 ball, it doesn't matter if you are the better of the 2 players, if you make the 9 on a legal hit, you win. The better player can sit in his or her chair the whole set, that doesn't mean that they aren't better. It means that they got beat.
 
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BPG24 said:
I guess you mean that would fix the problem. In that case you are right. 14.1 and 1 pocket are better games. Alot of pros talk about how much they hate playing 9 ball in general.

My quote is about short races in 9 ball and the fact that the best player doesn't have to win. Luck is only a small portion of it and not the point of my quote
In 9 ball, it doesn't matter if you are the better of the 2 players, if you make the 9 on a legal hit, you win. The better player can sit in his or her chair the whole set, that doesn't mean that they aren't better. It means that they got beat.
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There is plenty of luck in 14.1 also-Just look at who won the 14.1 over Schmidt, Feijen, Souquet, Immonen etc at the DCC. Now i know Darren is a great player but i doubt he is the best 14.1 player in that group.
 
Fragged said:
There is plenty of luck in 14.1 also-Just look at who won the 14.1 over Schmidt, Feijen, Souquet, Immonen etc at the DCC. Now i know Darren is a great player but i doubt he is the best 14.1 player in that group.
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Respectfully, I disagree with this statement. 14.1 is a call shot game. Of course there is luck in breaking up clusters and nudging balls, but in order to get the luck, you MUST possess the skill in order to give the luck a chance.

Darren won the event - which really doesn't mean he is the best player - it just means that he found a way to win and the other guys weren't able to find a way to win. That's pool. Darren won the DCC event because he dealt with the conditions and the balls better than anyone else on that table. In 9 ball, 1 pocket, or any game the same holds true - the guy that masters the table conditions will usually win. You need to find a way to win before the other guy. That's why Darren came out on top. Good for him!
 
Again the point of my quote is not luck.

I can't understand how anyone could see luck being the main point of the quote.
If you took any English classes in school, you should know that luck is not even close to the main point. Look at how it's worded
 
I think the issue with the statement you made is that it can apply at any time, any game, but maybe not all the time. Meaning, a C player can play a top player a race to 5, break in 2 9s, the pro can hang a 9, play a bad safe, and maybe a C will get a nice run to win the last game. Now that will happen, oh, 1 in 100 or 500 sets. Once you get to an A level, the pro may only win 5 out 6 sets. The statement should be, "At any given time, anyone can beat anyone else but with a very small chance, over a long period of time, the better player will end up with a better record". This would apply to pretty much anything, duck hunting, car racing, you name it.
 
If you're quoting yourself, why do you need other people to explain to you what it means. This would make a really nice blog post. Nobody here cares.
 
Blackjack said:
Darren won the event - which really doesn't mean he is the best player - it just means that he found a way to win and the other guys weren't able to find a way to win. That's pool.
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"He found a way to win" is an excellent point. We must remember that an incoming player ALWAYS comes to a different table than the outgoing player came in to. There can be several variables that can aid in a lesser players chance of winning a game/match. But the one fact remains: the table is ALWAYS different on each shot. Sometimes you get the rolls, sometimes you don't. Good/bad luck can play a small role in this.

Maniac
 
Fragged said:
There is plenty of luck in 14.1 also-Just look at who won the 14.1 over Schmidt, Feijen, Souquet, Immonen etc at the DCC. Now i know Darren is a great player but i doubt he is the best 14.1 player in that group.
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If a short race in 9 ball is the control for this comparison, then a single break shot in a single game of straight pool is it's equal,not the entire remaining game of straight pool that follows that single breakout.

In other words, sure there is luck in the breakout of a cluster in straight pool as Blackjack suggests, but after that breakout is when the performing needs to happen.

A lucky break in a game of 9 ball, or a good safe in a game of nine ball, more times than not leads to a win in that game, but not so with straight pool. In straight pool, that good spread merely opens an opportunity for an immense and much more demanding challenge that now lies ahead.

BTW, I believe that executed with thought, the breakout of a cluster in straight pool is far less lucky than one might think. Unless it is an unusually difficult 3 rail break where you approximate where the rack will be contacted, you can determine with a rather high level of accuracy what your next shot will be on a standard breakout, even if you are stuck in a situation that demands you to make such a break without an insurance ball.

Nine ball is certainly a skill game in its own right and barring any wild longshot lucky rolls, the better player will win, even in a short race. By better player I'm not talking about two nearly equal players, but rather a "C" player vs. an "A" player for example. But the game of 9 ball requires a completely different mindset and type of concentration. A kind of on again, off again focus that is nowhere near as deep as that required by 14.1.

The thing is, in 9 ball, the "A" player has the nuts to win playing a "C" player even if he isn't shooting well that day.

In straight pool, this is not the case! The better player has a greater tendency to further self destruct mentally if they start out playing poorly and the lesser player starts hitting them with numbers as Darren did on that day. Not knowing Darren's play, it hard to say he isn't a world class player btw.

Stress, focus, concentration, trust in your shots, endurance to remain in dead stroke, when compared to 9 ball, make that game look like a walk in the park.

So, in my opinion, regarding the original question, if we were going to spend an entire day watching "C" players play "A" players races to 7, from dawn to dusk, I'd gladly give you 4 to 1 on your money and take the "A" players all day. You may never even see one cashout on that bet. :)

p.s. God I hate 9 ball :D
 
gregory said:
If you're quoting yourself, why do you need other people to explain to you what it means. This would make a really nice blog post. Nobody here cares.
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I guess you are joking,or you didn't read my first post.

I think it's pretty obvious to anyone who can read what it means. Maybe they were just trying to cause trouble. Just gets really frustrating when people take something I say and turn it into something totally different. Seems to happen alot on AZB. I would understand if it happened to me on other forums, but it is just this one. Of course I am comparing pool players with golfers and business partners. Maybe I just expect to much from pool players.
 
BPG24 said:
"In 9 ball, the player that keeps control of the table wins. You do not have to be the better player to keep control of the table, nor do you have to be the better player to make the 9 ball 7 times before your opponent... Luck also plays a role"


This is a quote I made in another thread. We were talking about short tournament races to 7 and whether or not the best player is a big favorite in the short race. For some reason the 2 people that read it and responded can't understand what it means. Let's hear your thoughts on what it means. i think it is pretty clear, but for some reason people are struggling with it

I also explained that I have beaten players in this format that were much better than me, and I have lost to players that I should have beaten easily. Just giving examples
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My thought is this - and it's just my opinion - but since the context of the quote needed to be explained above, maybe it could have been worded differently?

After I read the context, I understood the quote. I do understand what it means... but your questions is "let's hear your thoughts on what does it means." My interpretation is the better player doesn't always win - it's who is in control of the table. Whether that control is deemed by who plays better or not is not the case.

I disagree on the word "control," though. My vision of the word control is who is better skilled at playing nineball... I think you mean who is at the table and taking advantage of being at the table - whether they are the better player or not.

Melinda
 
14.1?

Johnnyt said:
It means we should be playing 14.1 to take 95% of the luck out of it. Johnnyt
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14.1? How about we all just play one-pocket and eliminate luck altogether?
 
Blackjack said:
Darren won the event - which really doesn't mean he is the best player - it just means that he found a way to win and the other guys weren't able to find a way to win. That's pool. Darren won the DCC event because he dealt with the conditions and the balls better than anyone else on that table.
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BJD,
I absolutely agree with your assessment.

On the other hand, after watching a week of great straight pool (THANK YOU BOB JEWETT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), I think it is definitely possible that Darren could become the best player in that group. He did NOT have a grasp of the rules, and his safety play was not good; BUT his ball movement and stroke control were noticeably more measured and controlled than the other players. He definitely has more of an old school straight pool stroke than the others, and his ball pocketing seems just as good (if not better).

My estimate is that if he played regularly he would quickly rise above the other players mentioned in the thread. JMO.
 
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