Can Sigel Ever be Great Again?

sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Mike Sigel is a legend of pool, one of the greatest ever, but surely hasn't looked liked it in his IPT performances. After his performance against Loree Jon Jones, a sloppy effort camoufalged by a lopsided score, which I watched on TV yesterday morning, one would have predicted that he'd be no match at all for Efren unless Efren played at his lowest level.

And so, my question is, can Mike Sigel ever play great pool again?

NOT WILL HE, BUT CAN HE? THIS THREAD IS ABOUT WHAT'S POSSIBLE, NOT ABOUT WHETHER MIKE WILL MAKE THE EFFORT.

Or, more generically, is a comeback possible at Mike's age after more than ten years away from competition?

Let's weigh some of the evidence that suggests he might:

1) Many of Mike's contemporaries have played superbly though well into their 50's (such as Hall, Varner, Reyes, Parica, Rempe and many others) and a few have played well even into their sixties (for example, Mike LeBron). Being over 50 isn't being over the hill in pool.
2) Mike has the pedigree. He is a proven champion.
3) Pool fans, including this one, would support him wildly if he began to get anywhere near his old form, which would help him succeed.

Let's weigh some of the evidence that suggests he can't:

1) Nobody I'm aware of has retired and returned to make a successful combeack in their 50's. Yes, Joe Balsis stopped competing at pro level for about twenty years after being a stellar junior player, but returned to pro competition in his early 40's, winning countless titles once he returned.
2) It is difficult to put in long hours at the practice table in your mid-50's. Stamina is an issue.
3) Mike would find it difficult to swallow if he lost to some shortstops or marginal pros in the process of regaining his game, and might be inclined to give up the fight if it played out that way.

So, I'm wondering, is a comeback even possible for Mike Sigel at this age? By a comeback, I mean becoming a top-twenty-in-the-world player. Not will he come back, but can he? Is it even conceivable?
 
I really don't think it's a matter of can he, I think it's rather a choice of if he wants to put forth the effort.

In all honest opinion, I think that he has made his mark as a significant contributor (IPT) to what is now known as pool and will retire (again) at this time to sit back and let the gravy train roll right on it.

Now if he wanted to, could he? Possibly, but again, I don't think the dedication is there for him anymore.
 
Could he be in the top 20? I definitely think so. Especially now that the game is 8-ball. A player can win games on knowledge in 8-ball, which is something Sigel has plenty of, as opposed to 9-ball where it has become more of a break/shot-making contest at the higher levels. If the game were 9-ball I might be a little less confident in his ability to get back to being a top competitor but, even then, I'd say it was possible. He may be older, but he isn't handicapped or anything. I'm not sure but, for so many to say that Allison and Karen ARE contenders among the top men, it's sort of absurd to think that Mike Sigel isn't - or that he's incapable of being a contender again.
 
I think he definately "can" be one of the most dominant players in the world again. To do this he would need to begin playing full time professional pool again. Not just the occasional IPT event once every 2 months but playing the Sands, the UPA events, the World 9-ball, the Masters, and others as well as the IPT events such that he gets back into the swing of things and use to the pressure of competition and builds some momentum and wins against the premier players of the world of today.

Part of what made Sigel great was intimidation and his momentum from tournament to tournament. He was winning far more then his share of tournaments in his prime and had notched a extreme winning percentage against virtually every pro in the world. This made people extremely nervous to play him and at the same time fed Mike's extreme self confidence and ego, which was one of the things that allowed him to perform with no fear and the belief that he was "suppose" to win every match he played in.

He is going to need to hit the tournament trail again and start playing the top pro's week after week and start pounding them into the ground at the same time as building up his self confidence with big wins and dominating performances. Looking at the fact he ran a 8-pack in practice at the IPT event and also looking at the lopsided finals match where he actually broke only 5 games total and managed a 60% B&R average he showed the skill is still there. What he lacked was his seasoning, his confidence, his killer instinct, and his intimidation factor. All of which were huge parts of his domination of the game when he was playing full time.

After having been out of the game for so long he has lost the intimidation, the respect, the confidence. He needs to get it back, and that will require alot of playing in every pro level tournament he can manage. Will he do it? I am not sure, he seems to feel he is above the rest of the pool world and too good to play in other events. Why else would he skip the US Open, which would have helped his winning the King of the Hill final by giving him some much needed momentum, respect, and wins against the new pool scene.

If all he does is play in IPT events and skips all of the other opportunities to play pro level tournaments then I don't expect Sigel will ever be a dominant pool player again or do much of note on the IPT.
 
Can Sigel come back from retirement? Remember, Mosconi came back from a stroke. As far as age goes, look no further than Sigel's idol- Irving Crane, who played very well late into his life. I think if Mike puts in the hours, he can play at a very high level again. Hey, he ran 8 racks at the IPT on the practice table. The question is- does he WANT to now that he has experienced a normal family life away from the game?
 
SJM,

IMHO, Mike has a phenomenal career and doesnt really need to come back. 101 titles, plus the 1 match Loree Jon title (I guess that makes 102?) ... Is age really a factor? I felt the sting of Mike Lebron's whippins back in the day, and I also had the opportunity of playing Cowboy Jimmy Moore, Luther Lassiter, and Jack Colavita when they were all older than Sigel is now. They all played great pool right til the end. I think if Mike continues to compete he will once again become acclimated to the level of competition. I think that it is a definite disadvantage to the guy that is the "King of the Hill" because they don't have any tune up matches to get into stroke and to get "into" the competitive flow. He's played 2 matches in 4 months, so he really hasn't has much exposure to Efren's level of play (or top level competition) for almost 10 years. We all know what Mike is capable of when he plays his best game. The question is whether or not the hunger will be there with $250g's in his back pocket. Me, I'd be on my way to Hawaii.
 
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I think for the money he should come back. When he was winning tournaments he was also on the road gambling too. :Lots of pool playing. I am not sure he has been playing with the same intensity just because he has not been playing. Better yet, if he did and with 14.1 being a strong game for him, he should be in at least the top 10.
 
I think that if Mike decides to dedicate himself to the IPT, he'll not only be competitive, I think that he can win. Sigel is one of the greatest talents this game has ever known and even after a 10 year break, most of these young "champions" out there still need weight.
 
He is only human (Mike Sigel) not Superman. Although Efren plays great and he showed it at this tournament says allot. But any of these Champions that were in the tournament could have done the same thing Efren done, when the little light comes on in these guys’ heads they go into another world and they run out for days. That’s why their all champions of this sport. But I believe Mike will come back and be a threat to this tour as he was in the 80's the man can still play with the best in the world, just because he didn't perform that well at this tournament. Doesn’t mean he’s a has been.

But when your opponent is at the table and he's in stroke and running rack after rack you can be GOD and still can't win if your mans running rack after rack.

But congratulations to Efren on his win and best of luck with many more.
 
he "CAN",,,, because as evidence, you site those who do.

but you answered your questions with his "will" to do it, sjm :):):)

hard to avoid answering your question without confusing the "ability to" and the "will to".

he has the ability......pool is not THAT physical(although everyone points to their sight as a factor in old age). i think there's more to it than just sight, though. there's something else that these guyz "see" that seems to get lost with age.

one thing that does change is their stamina. i think another factor is their boldness of expression on the table. i think with age comes a conservative bent,,,,an "insecurity",(bad word for want of a better one), that fosters caution......thus, fluidity and rhythm is lost. it is rare if not ever that an artist retains his "vitality" throughout his career. but i see no reason for sigel NOt to do well in 8ball.


i will have to exempt some remarkable filipinos from this however,,,as they seem to grow from some other pool planet.
 
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There's "King of the Hill" and "Over the Hill" and I'm sorry to say that Mike is the latter.

Can Mike win a set on any given day against anyone....Yes.

Can Mike endure a long tournament (at age 55) and beat several young players to become King again?In my opinion, NO.If he does it, my hat is off to him.
RJ
 
Mike has table presence and a killer instinct that can intimidate just about anyone on the table.

He also knows how to get the most out of his abilities with 8-ball strategy and so is very dangerous with running racks.

But I feel his accuracy lacks consistancy, in potting and positional play. It will take him a few games to get going and will always be vulnerable on the longer shots. This may cost him many times in early rounds against a new breed of great potters.

Though, it's hard to write off a great winner. He may get better and better with each tourney.
 
Will HE Can He

Of course he can!
Will he? I'm rather curious myself.
Captain Hook knows about winning as any person who ever played the game. We must remember that he retired 10 years ago and probably for more reasons than we know.
This game can do funny things to a persons attitude and if you lose that drive or competitive spirit, the game becomes more and more frustrating and much less fun.
If it is just about the money, I say no, he can't come back. It would be fun to see though.
 
Colin Colenso said:
But I feel his accuracy lacks consistancy, in potting and positional play. It will take him a few games to get going and will always be vulnerable on the longer shots. This may cost him many times in early rounds against a new breed of great potters.
Click to expand...

Perhaps that is true now but when Sigel was in his prime his potting ability was actually one of the most acclaimed aspects of his game. The ability to come up with those seriously tough clutch pots in key moments was something he did as well if not better then anyone.
 
sjm said:
Mike Sigel is a legend of pool, one of the greatest ever, but surely hasn't looked liked it in his IPT performances. After his performance against Loree Jon Jones, a sloppy effort camoufalged by a lopsided score, which I watched on TV yesterday morning, one would have predicted that he'd be no match at all for Efren unless Efren played at his lowest level.

And so, my question is, can Mike Sigel ever play great pool again?

NOT WILL HE, BUT CAN HE? THIS THREAD IS ABOUT WHAT'S POSSIBLE, NOT ABOUT WHETHER MIKE WILL MAKE THE EFFORT.

Or, more generically, is a comeback possible at Mike's age after more than ten years away from competition?

Let's weigh some of the evidence that suggests he might:

1) Many of Mike's contemporaries have played superbly though well into their 50's (such as Hall, Varner, Reyes, Parica, Rempe and many others) and a few have played well even into their sixties (for example, Mike LeBron). Being over 50 isn't being over the hill in pool.
2) Mike has the pedigree. He is a proven champion.
3) Pool fans, including this one, would support him wildly if he began to get anywhere near his old form, which would help him succeed.

Let's weigh some of the evidence that suggests he can't:

1) Nobody I'm aware of has retired and returned to make a successful combeack in their 50's. Yes, Joe Balsis stopped competing at pro level for about twenty years after being a stellar junior player, but returned to pro competition in his early 40's, winning countless titles once he returned.
2) It is difficult to put in long hours at the practice table in your mid-50's. Stamina is an issue.
3) Mike would find it difficult to swallow if he lost to some shortstops or marginal pros in the process of regaining his game, and might be inclined to give up the fight if it played out that way.

So, I'm wondering, is a comeback even possible for Mike Sigel at this age? By a comeback, I mean becoming a top-twenty-in-the-world player. Not will he come back, but can he? Is it even conceivable?
Click to expand...


I believe he can be great again. He obviously can still play, didn't they say he was running multiple racks in practice? This is Mike Sigel we're talking about, the greatest player I've ever seen play. I think the reason he got beaten so handily in the final is simply because it's been awhile since he's been in a pressure situation, but give him a few more events to regain his mental toughness and he'll be back on top. Remember how he was back in the 80's? Efren couldn't beat him in any game because Sigel just knows how to close out a match.


.
 
Ok, I am a big Mike Sigel fan and can probably credit him and Nick Varner for inspiring me to play pool some 20 years ago. I would like to see nothing else than to watch Mike rise above and snap off one of these modern day champs for the big cheese.

Having said that, let me move on to my opinion on whether or not Mike is capable of making a comeback. I don't think that it has anything to do with will, determination, or persistency. I'm not trying to start any controversy, and don't want to open a new can of worms, but at the same time, I am not going to sugar coat this subject.

The real question here is, will Mike Sigel subject his body to the same performance enhancing products that he may have used throughout the 70's and 80's to gain that slight edge he needed to become the World's winningest pool player? And no, I don't mean steroids.
Or, is he thinking twice before indulging realizing that he is older now and has other things in his life like a business and a family.

Sigel vs. Reyes, Sigel on the normal.....10-1
Sigel vs. Reyes, Sigel on the white........3-1
Sigel vs. Reyes after 6 months on the road gambling and snapping off regional events, as well as the white, PRICELESS!!

Just as a side note, for all of you out there who don't realize or don't believe that drug use is happening or that it helps these players, please allow me to open your eyes. Take a look at some of the actual photograpghs of the champions available right here on AZbilliards, I am talking the ones that were taken immediately after the player won the event. Now look into their eyes and tell me that's the way you want your teenager to look when he comes home on a Saturday night. If you want more evidence just ask, but I won't start naming specific players and instances where I can prove they are using drugs just to make this point here.
 
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Snapshot9 said:
Mike Sigel is 53, born in 1952. Efren is 51.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the age correction.

The difference between 20 and 22 (2 years) is unnnoticable.

The difference between 51 and 53 (2 years) is a different story.Every year after 50, I would say (in the majority of cases) your game will go down.

More importantly the ten years Mike missed playing competitive pressure pool (factored in with his age)could be the toughest obstacle to overcome.You just can't replace 10 missed years that easily.

I don't mean to be sacreligious saying this about Mike, however, this is just my opinion.Mike was a pool god and one of the best ever for sure.
Actually I hope Mike reads what I've written and comes back to prove me wrong.

As for Efren playing so great at 51, he is a special case for sure.In every sport there seems to be that one or two that rises above the rest. What he is accomplishing at his age is not normal.
JMO, RJ
 
sjm said:
So, I'm wondering, is a comeback even possible for Mike Sigel at this age? By a comeback, I mean becoming a top-twenty-in-the-world player. Not will he come back, but can he? Is it even conceivable?
Click to expand...

If the question is "can he?" I think the obvious answer is yes. He clearly had the better break and had cosmo outs. He B&R 8 in a row on the practice table. Only tournament toughness is the lacking ingredient.

Fred
 
C'mon!

accdealer said:
Ok, I am a big Mike Sigel fan

will Mike Sigel subject his body to the same performance enhancing products

that he may have used

throughout the 70's and 80's to gain that slight edge he needed to become the World's winningest pool player? And no, I don't mean steroids.

.....Now look into their eyes
Click to expand...

That's unusually spineless and remedial.


....OMG, maybe you're right, another Champ hiding his eyes....from you - 'cause you know.....Ahh ha ha ha!
 

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