Can someone help me understand the thought process behind these requests?

Str8 Shots

Kimberly Griffiths
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have listened for three years about how professional players cannot make any money because there are not enough tournaments for them to play in. A couple of years ago we set out to get sponsorship from outside the industry to try to help turn things around. Str8 Shots has been very successful in getting sponsorship for 4 events this year with the first event being the Nick Varner Classic in March. There’s a total of $19,000.00 added and it is guaranteed.

$10,500.00 is being added to a professional event for up to 32 players. I’m aware the Rum Runner tournament is the same weekend and has up to 64 players. Unfortunately that weekend is one of the only weekends that Nick has availability. Plus the Wyoming Open is the following weekend and that has good money added to it also. We figured by having it the 3rd weekend of March, it worked with Nick’s schedule and gave professional players the opportunity to play in two good paying events over two consecutive weekends.

We’ve received numerous calls, FB messages, and emails from professional players asking us to cover their expenses to play in our event or they will go to Rum Runner. They say that the Rum Runner has better payouts and their expenses would be higher to come to Denver versus going to Vegas. Let’s compare apples to apples.

Rumrunner Payouts
1st - $5,000.00
2nd - $2,500.00
3rd - $1,600.00
4th - $1,100.00
5th/6th - $850.00
7th/8th - $600.00
9th/12th - $425.00
13th/16th - $300.00

Rum Runner Added $3,700.00
Entry Fee $200.00
Total Payout $16,000.00

Varner Payouts
1st - $5,000.00
2nd - $3,000.00
3rd - $2,000.00
4th - $1,500.00
5th/6th - $1,100.00
7th/8th - $790.00

Top Lady - $500.00

Nick Varner Added $10,500.00
Entry Fee $200.00
Total Payout $15,780.00


Upon checking flights to and from various cities around the country into both Vegas and Denver we have found there are some flights that are cheaper going to Vegas, while other flights are cheaper going into Denver.

Cheapest hotel we could find near the Rum Runner that will give you a free cup of coffee and free internet was $89.00 for two double/queens beds per night. It is a 2/3 star hotel. The deals we worked out with the hotels are $65.00 to $74.00 for two double/queens beds per night. Both of the hotels we’ve blocked rooms at include a free hot breakfast, free internet, and free shuttle service within 5 miles. Both 3/4 star hotels.

I think the Rum Runner is a great event and if they cover all the expenses for these players that is their decision .They have the right to decide what they want to do with their event. I would also encourage the players who have supported and done well in that event in the past to continue going to it.

I am asking because from a business standpoint it makes no sense to me. Why would promoters put the money up for the tournaments, pay players entry fees, and cover all their expenses to play in it? In my opinion you are stacking the deck against the players who actually did pay their own entry and expenses.

I would appreciate any insight/feedback.
 
We’ve received numerous calls, FB messages, and emails from professional players asking us to cover their expenses to play in our event or they will go to Rum Runner. They say that the Rum Runner has better payouts and their expenses would be higher to come to Denver versus going to Vegas. Let’s compare apples to apples.

I think the Rum Runner is a great event and if they cover all the expenses for these players that is their decision .They have the right to decide what they want to do with their event. I would also encourage the players who have supported and done well in that event in the past to continue going to it.

I am asking because from a business standpoint it makes no sense to me. Why would promoters put the money up for the tournaments, pay players entry fees, and cover all their expenses to play in it? In my opinion you are stacking the deck against the players who actually did pay their own entry and expenses.

I would appreciate any insight/feedback.

So you, being a new promoter to the pro side of pool, wouldn't of it made more sense to not schedule a tourney around the same dates as another? Beings that the Rum Runner has been going for far longer, and in some peoples words, more prestigious due to a harder field.

But, the bigger issue is that the payouts for either tourney flat out suck. First place should be a minimum $25,000 for these smaller tourneys. That way even the lower ranked pros could still make enough money to travel.

You pick and choose the problem. The lack of payouts or you scheduling a tourney on top of a tourney.
 
So you, being a new promoter to the pro side of pool, wouldn't of it made more sense to not schedule a tourney around the same dates as another? Beings that the Rum Runner has been going for far longer, and in some peoples words, more prestigious due to a harder field.

But, the bigger issue is that the payouts for either tourney flat out suck. First place should be a minimum $25,000 for these smaller tourneys. That way even the lower ranked pros could still make enough money to travel.

You pick and choose the problem. The lack of payouts or you scheduling a tourney on top of a tourney.

I'm not sure what your response has to do with my question but I do appreciate you taking the time to reply.

Are you saying that unless there is a $25,000.00 first place then we shouldn't do events? If so we would have to do away with every tournament in this country outside of the US Open 9-Ball. How would that help players?
 
Str8tShots...Pay no attention to Hits Em Hard. He is not a pro player, and therefore has no say in your issues. You have done well to get any outside industry sponsorship. To the players who want you to "pay their expenses" to grace you with their presence...TELL THEM TO POUND SAND! The "entitlement attitude" that some of these pros have is astonishing at best, and deplorable at worst. Allen Hopkins has another pro event in Philly around the same time as yours. Do you think he's paying anyone's expenses to come play? NOPE! As far as how much $$$ you choose to add to an event, that is your call. The gigantic majority of cash tournaments in this country add little or nothing. The players are playing for the entry fees. That hasn't changed in 50 years. IF a promoter deems to add some money, how much and how it will be distributed is completely up to them. You don't like the rules...don't play. Simple as that. Best wishes in reaching your goals.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
I'm not sure what your response has to do with my question but I do appreciate you taking the time to reply.

Are you saying that unless there is a $25,000.00 first place then we shouldn't do events? If so we would have to do away with every tournament in this country outside of the US Open 9-Ball. How would that help players?

How is the payouts now helping players? You want pros to show up to your tourney, there should be an incentive to attend. Having such a small payout doesn't help attract the attention of pros when they become aware that their travel expenses will be more than the winnings. If every business ran like current pro pool tournaments do, then everyone would go broke very quick. And just so you know, the calcutta alone for the rum runner makes the tourney worth attending. Can you guarantee the same action? No you can't. There just isn't the money in Denver like there is in Vegas.

As far as I know, the only time a promoter will pay a pros expenses for a tourney is if they're the defending champ.
 
hmmm

well said scott. I also have invited certain players that I wont name, to our event and the response was pretty much the same, wanted entry fees , rooms and appearance fee or travel expenses paid , yet at the same time I asked if they would be willing to help while here to do a clinic, demonstration, trickshot show, talk to the youth and or league players about the game ,how to practice etc. and they said no........it is what it is, if they come they come. I give up, and why is everyone saying pool is in bad shape again????? lol
 
Str8tShots...Pay no attention to Hits Em Hard. He is not a pro player, and therefore has no say in your issues. You have done well to get any outside industry sponsorship. To the players who want you to "pay their expenses" to grace you with their presence...TELL THEM TO POUND SAND! The "entitlement attitude" that some of these pros have is astonishing at best, and deplorable at worst. Allen Hopkins has another pro event in Philly around the same time as yours. Do you think he's paying anyone's expenses to come play? NOPE! As far as how much $$$ you choose to add to an event, that is your call. The gigantic majority of cash tournaments in this country add little or nothing. The players are playing for the entry fees. That hasn't changed in 50 years. IF a promoter deems to add some money, how much and how it will be distributed is completely up to them. You don't like the rules...don't play. Simple as that. Best wishes in reaching your goals.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

So the fragmentation of 'promoters' for these pro events isn't an issue? You ever notice how each weekend there is only one FedEx Cup point golf tourney? Same goes for darts and bowling. There's only one at a time. Only one Nascar race at a time. I'm intentionally showing that in the case of single player competitions there isn't the same fragmentation in other sports like there is in pool.

Is adding more $5,000 first place payout tourneys a good idea? Hell no it ain't. I know a few people out there that could compete with SVB on the pool table, but why should they give up they're $1,000,000+/year job to go play pro pool for chump change?
 
So you, being a new promoter to the pro side of pool, wouldn't of it made more sense to not schedule a tourney around the same dates as another? Beings that the Rum Runner has been going for far longer, and in some peoples words, more prestigious due to a harder field.

But, the bigger issue is that the payouts for either tourney flat out suck. First place should be a minimum $25,000 for these smaller tourneys. That way even the lower ranked pros could still make enough money to travel. You pick and choose the problem. The lack of payouts or you scheduling a tourney on top of a tourney.

Did you just arrive from planet huge pool payouts to here on Earth where even major events have a tough time coming up with 25k for first?
 
So the fragmentation of 'promoters' for these pro events isn't an issue? You ever notice how each weekend there is only one FedEx Cup point golf tourney? Same goes for darts and bowling. There's only one at a time. Only one Nascar race at a time. I'm intentionally showing that in the case of single player competitions there isn't the same fragmentation in other sports like there is in pool.

Is adding more $5,000 first place payout tourneys a good idea? Hell no it ain't. I know a few people out there that could compete with SVB on the pool table, but why should they give up they're $1,000,000+/year job to go play pro pool for chump change?

You got me here, I'm throwing the "bullshit flag".
 
Is adding more $5,000 first place payout tourneys a good idea? Hell no it ain't. I know a few people out there that could compete with SVB on the pool table, but why should they give up they're $1,000,000+/year job to go play pro pool for chump change?

Now you're just being silly, there are players that play like SVB and make 1 million or more a year now in other jobs? Where did they get the time to practice 6 hours a day to play like Shane and have such a nice career?

Not sure what your point was in this thread to begin with, the thread was about players telling the promoter to basically pay to have them be in the tournament not about pool being a good career.
 
Wow, are you ever delusional. Don't know what you're smoking but it must be good stuff, if you think you "know a few people out there that could compete with SVB on the pool table"!...AND they have million-dollar-a-year jobs too! Wow...lucky them to be so skilled. The fact that ANY promoter chooses to add any money with attitudes like yours escapes me (but then you're not a pro player)...but you've certainly got all the answers. :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I know a few people out there that could compete with SVB on the pool table, but why should they give up they're $1,000,000+/year job to go play pro pool for chump change?
 
I don't know of any pool player that can run 3 racks that has not been exposed to promoters/conmen/hustlers, they congregate in poolrooms while plying their trade , everytone with half a brain learns their tactics.
Is it surprising that a pro pool player would try to get all he can, going in?
Not at all in my world.
It is up to you to counter their requests by doing all you can to help them make the decision to play.
If all you can do is the prize money , that's all you can do .
You might tell them that if your profits exceed ????, you will split the extra with the top 5 places.
There are not enough tournaments for these players to make it now , if there were more than enough , even some of the lower pros could gett a piece.
Good luck to you whatever happens.
 
Wow, are you ever delusional. Don't know what you're smoking but it must be good stuff, if you think you "know a few people out there that could compete with SVB on the pool table"!...AND they have million-dollar-a-year jobs too! Wow...lucky them to be so skilled. The fact that ANY promoter chooses to add any money with attitudes like yours escapes me (but then you're not a pro player)...but you've certainly got all the answers. :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

SVB just turned 30 right? He has been playing that this same level for the last. 7-8 years or so. So starting at the age of 20, he probably saw how good he was becoming. So when I say that I know people who could compete with SVB, I'm being totally honest. It's you who is implying their age. I never said they were the same age as SVB. The people I'm talking about are in their 40's and 50's. They'll play pool whenever they get the free time to. Last time I saw one of the people I'm talking about gamble, he was giving up the break, and he still didn't miss a single shot in 9 games. He didn't miss. When was the last time you were gambling and didn't miss for 9 games in a row?

If you still insist that the way things are going right now is fine. Then maybe you should show a little more respect to those that play better than you. Allow them the grace of being considered a pro, show them that their time and dedication is worth more than a McDonalds workers wages. Sure they make more money than that, but only because of the gambling aspect of it. Pros shouldn't be required to gamble to make a living, but that's what you seem to want, and along with a lot of people. Pro golfers don't gamble to make a living. They gamble for the fun of it. Have you ever heard some of the stories pro golfers tell about gambling, they all got you laughing at the end. It's because gambling isn't a life blood to them. It is to pro pool players, and it needs to stop.

Please, do continue making threads asking about why pro pool players are asking for handouts when you refuse to look at the problem of why they are asking in the first place. You could win a pro pool tourney and barely make enough money to live for the rest of the month, or will a golf tourney and not be required to play again all year(you will because of sponsor requirements, but not because you need the money.)
 
There are not enough tournaments for these players to make it now , if there were more than enough , even some of the lower pros could gett a piece.
Good luck to you whatever happens.

Add more tourneys with lesser payouts, it then becomes a matter of traveling the right route to hit them with the least expenditure. Or make the payouts bigger so that every time a tourney happens the big dogs aren't required to play because they've won enough money to not feel the pressure to compete.
 
I think it has already been firmly established that Str8 Shots are not con artists, or hustlers, and are only out to provide positive exposure for the game. If anything, there are a number of pro players who act like children when it comes time to "pay it forward" to help promote their own sport. Str8 Shots has already intelligently and articulately posted what their event is, and how the prize funds will be paid out. Play or don't...but don't expect them to bow down to these people, just because they "think" they're entitled to something (anything) just because they play well. Sorry, but in the real world it doesn't work that way...at least in the real pool world. The sooner the pro players, as a group, learn this hard fact, the sooner the sport can inch forward. I don't know about you, book collector, but I WORK for my money...and imo, so should the pro players...and it must be more than just showing up on game day, with their hand out.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I don't know of any pool player that can run 3 racks that has not been exposed to promoters/conmen/hustlers, they congregate in poolrooms while plying their trade , everytone with half a brain learns their tactics.
Is it surprising that a pro pool player would try to get all he can, going in?
Not at all in my world.
It is up to you to counter their requests by doing all you can to help them make the decision to play.
If all you can do is the prize money , that's all you can do .
You might tell them that if your profits exceed ????, you will split the extra with the top 5 places.
There are not enough tournaments for these players to make it now , if there were more than enough , even some of the lower pros could gett a piece.
Good luck to you whatever happens.
 
Kimberly

I think if you are a new promoter with a new event and you have scheduled your new event directly in conflict with an established and already popular event, you might find yourself getting worked a bit by players that all of a sudden are presented with two choices.

Its only natural. Seems to me that considering being new and wanting to be in a cooperative rather than immediately competitive situation, you might have done a better job with the scheduling, but probably that was impossible.

Kevin
 
LMAO...I think the solution is for magicians to become promoters. Then they can turn a whole bunch of $1 bills into $100 bills...and pay them out to the "pros". Really? Just make the payouts bigger huh? Wow, what an incredible idea. Surprised nobody else thought of that. I guess only deep-pocketed millionaires should be the only people promoting pool, in your mind? In which case, in no time at all, there will be NONE! Will that make you happy? BTW, what have YOU done lately to enhance/promote pool...pro or amateur? :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Or make the payouts bigger so that every time a tourney happens the big dogs aren't required to play because they've won enough money to not feel the pressure to compete.
 
Kevin...She already mentioned in her first post that Varner was only available that weekend, and since he is 'name' sponsor, it seems likely that they would want him there. Other than that, I agree with you.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Kimberly

I think if you are a new promoter with a new event and you have scheduled your new event directly in conflict with an established and already popular event, you might find yourself getting worked a bit by players that all of a sudden are presented with two choices.

Its only natural. Seems to me that considering being new and wanting to be in a cooperative rather than immediately competitive situation, you might have done a better job with the scheduling, but probably that was impossible.

Kevin
 
SVB just turned 30 right? He has been playing that this same level for the last. 7-8 years or so. So starting at the age of 20, he probably saw how good he was becoming. So when I say that I know people who could compete with SVB, I'm being totally honest. It's you who is implying their age. I never said they were the same age as SVB. The people I'm talking about are in their 40's and 50's. They'll play pool whenever they get the free time to. Last time I saw one of the people I'm talking about gamble, he was giving up the break, and he still didn't miss a single shot in 9 games. He didn't miss. When was the last time you were gambling and didn't miss for 9 games in a row?

If you still insist that the way things are going right now is fine. Then maybe you should show a little more respect to those that play better than you. Allow them the grace of being considered a pro, show them that their time and dedication is worth more than a McDonalds workers wages. Sure they make more money than that, but only because of the gambling aspect of it. Pros shouldn't be required to gamble to make a living, but that's what you seem to want, and along with a lot of people. Pro golfers don't gamble to make a living. They gamble for the fun of it. Have you ever heard some of the stories pro golfers tell about gambling, they all got you laughing at the end. It's because gambling isn't a life blood to them. It is to pro pool players, and it needs to stop.

Please, do continue making threads asking about why pro pool players are asking for handouts when you refuse to look at the problem of why they are asking in the first place. You could win a pro pool tourney and barely make enough money to live for the rest of the month, or will a golf tourney and not be required to play again all year(you will because of sponsor requirements, but not because you need the money.)
You really are out .

Didn't miss a ball for 9 games is evidence that one plays as good as the best in the world?!

Shit, this game just got easier. I play as well as svb too.

Add another notch...to my crotch.
 
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