Can you believe this????

rackmsuckr

Linda Carter - The QUEEN!
Silver Member
I am outraged. :bash: I use my credit or debit cards all the time in the poolhall. What can we do? Write to the credit card companies? Elevate our sport on the ground floor, yes, but can we ever overcome the prejudice against pool? :banghead:
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Lenders, insurers, and other financial firms use credit scoring systems to make a host of decisions about consumers, including the interest rate on their mortgages, the limits on their credit cards, and the monthly premiums for their auto coverage. Some rely heavily on FICO, a three-digit score developed by Minneapolis-based financial firm Fair Isaac, while others use proprietary models developed by statisticians.

But companies don't disclose what's baked into their formulas, leaving many borrowers to wonder which factors determine their financial fate. The FTC suit against Atlanta-based CompuCredit for allegedly "deceptive" marketing practices offers a rare look inside the opaque business of credit scoring. It reveals a mechanism that consumer advocates and politicians have long suspected exists -- one in which purchasing behavior, not just payment history, matters.

The allegations, in part, focus on CompuCredit's Aspire Visa, a subprime credit card for risky borrowers. The FTC claims that CompuCredit didn't properly disclose that it monitored spending and cut credit lines if consumers used their cards at certain places. Among them: tire and retreading shops, massage parlors, bars, billiard halls, and marriage counseling offices.

"The company touted that cardholders could use their credit cards anywhere," says J. Reilly Dolan, assistant director for financial practices at the FTC. "What they didn't say was that you could be punished for specific kinds of purchases." The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. is also seeking $200 million in penalties from CompuCredit in the matter.

It's not the first time CompuCredit has come under scrutiny from authorities. In 2006, the credit card issuer and another financial firm agreed to fork over $11 million to consumers and reform its marketing and billing procedures as part of a settlement with then-New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who had launched a probe the year before after receiving various consumer complaints.

CompuCredit maintains that the FTC's lawsuit is without merit, and defends its practices. "Every time a consumer accesses their credit, a new decision to extend a loan is being made," says Rohit H. Kirpalani, CompuCredit's general counsel. "These scoring models are commonplace across the industry."

Gaming the System

With competition increasing, databases improving, and technology advancing, companies can include more factors than ever in their models. And industry experts say financial firms increasingly are looking at consumer behavior, as CompuCredit did.

The worry is that companies may tweak the credit scoring systems in unfair or biased ways, weeding out or limiting borrowers based on race, gender, or sexual orientation. (In the case of CompuCredit, regulators are taking issue with the lack of disclosure, not specifically its use of behavior-based scoring.)

"We as consumers should become aware that behavior is used to determine our creditworthiness," says consumer advocate Karen Gross, president of Southern Vermont College. "What CompuCredit portends is the [use] of information to create a more robust and potentially nefarious credit scoring system."

:shakehead:
 
rackmsuckr said:
I am outraged. :bash: I use my credit or debit cards all the time in the poolhall. What can we do? Write to the credit card companies? Elevate our sport on the ground floor, yes, but can we ever overcome the prejudice against pool? :banghead:
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:shakehead:

Here's an idea: Don't use credit cards. Pay cash.

A debit card? Don't worry about that. The use of it, assuming it is from a reputable bank and not a shyster outfit like in the article, doesn't affect your FICO score.

Act your wage.
 
This is kind of along the same lines but Japan just introduced the "TASPO" system for buying cigarettes from vending machines. TASPO stands for Tobacco Passport. You have to have your photo taken and apply for this card. Within a few weeks a credit card type card with your picture on it is sent to you. If you don't have this card you can't buy cigarettes out of a machine because all the machines are equipped with scanners now.

This just started on June 1st. Right now I don't see it as being a problem. The idea behind this, what they claim the idea is, is to prevent people under 20 years old from buying cigs. Fair enough. But I can't help but think that sometime within the next 5 to 10 years laws will be popping up around this card system that will allow health insurance companies, for example, to check the data to see how how many packs of cigarettes you're buying each month. It also lends itself to letting the government know WHERE you buy your cigarettes.

I know there are plenty of people that hate smoking and I can appreciate that. But this isn't about smoking. It's about privacy. I'm not getting one of these cards. I can always use someone else's. That little comment takes it in another area. Of course it's illegal to let someone use your card, but people are doing it. Right now no one at the pool hall has this card so one of the guys that works there has been bringing his father's card with him to work and letting everyone use it. It's going to look like he's a heavy smoker.
MULLY
sorry to hijack this but it was with good intent as it's along the same lines
 
I just went to a billiard hall a couple days ago. I'd only been there once before. I had 2 bottles of imported beer and a red bull. Me and my instructor played for over 3 hours on a 9 ft diamond. They have 10 diamonds there by the way.

He gave me a real bargain and only charged me $20 for all of that. I handed him my debit card and he said to just bring back cash next time. I said I have cash too. He said you can catch up with me next time. I was like no really here is a 20 dollar bill and he said thank you.

Awesome pool hall across from Kenmore lanes called the Golden Fleece although it just says billiard club on the door.

I heard that Seattle's most popular pool hall is closing in a week so I thought I would share a really good alternative just down the road.
 
Luxury said:
I just went to a billiard hall a couple days ago. I'd only been there once before. I had 2 bottles of imported beer and a red bull. Me and my instructor played for over 3 hours on a 9 ft diamond. They have 10 diamonds there by the way.

He gave me a real bargain and only charged me $20 for all of that. I handed him my debit card and he said to just bring back cash next time. I said I have cash too. He said you can catch up with me next time. I was like no really here is a 20 dollar bill and he said thank you.

Awesome pool hall across from Kenmore lanes called the Golden Fleece although it just says billiard club on the door.

I heard that Seattle's most popular pool hall is closing in a week so I thought I would share a really good alternative just down the road.


Yeah, it's nice having a place like that where they trust you enough to pay later. There have been times when I didn't have any cash on me at all and I can just ask the guy at the counter to set the bill aside until next time.
MULLY
 
Luxury said:
I just went to a billiard hall a couple days ago...gave me a real bargain ...$20 for all of that....here is a 20 dollar bill and he said thank you...

Cheapo-alert! :poke:
 
Luxury said:
I just went to a billiard hall a couple days ago. I'd only been there once before. I had 2 bottles of imported beer and a red bull. Me and my instructor played for over 3 hours on a 9 ft diamond. They have 10 diamonds there by the way.

He gave me a real bargain and only charged me $20 for all of that. I handed him my debit card and he said to just bring back cash next time. I said I have cash too. He said you can catch up with me next time. I was like no really here is a 20 dollar bill and he said thank you.

Awesome pool hall across from Kenmore lanes called the Golden Fleece although it just says billiard club on the door.

I heard that Seattle's most popular pool hall is closing in a week so I thought I would share a really good alternative just down the road.

I think that's probably why Dr. Cue's is going out of business. Dave has a heck of a poolroom with very reasonable rates. Originally, Mike and I were going to run their tournaments at the Golden Fleece.

Btw, who is your instructor?
 
rackmsuckr said:
I think that's probably why Dr. Cue's is going out of business. Dave has a heck of a poolroom with very reasonable rates. Originally, Mike and I were going to run their tournaments at the Golden Fleece.

Btw, who is your instructor?

Gary Helgeson is my instructor. He isn't certified and all he charges me is the table time but he is an awesome man and great player. He recommended that I take a lesson from Paul Portier after he took one from Paul and I did and that lesson was huge for my game.
 
Lee

Paul Potier is an outstanding instructor, well worth whatever price tag he attaches to his classes.

Always tip the room owner.

(former room owner driven out of business due to non-tippers) lol
 
Str8PoolMan said:
Here's an idea: Don't use credit cards. Pay cash.

A debit card? Don't worry about that. The use of it, assuming it is from a reputable bank and not a shyster outfit like in the article, doesn't affect your FICO score.

Act your wage.

That seems a bit condescending. If I want to use a credit card to accrue air miles, that I pay off every month, then that is my business. And I am acting my wage. :scratchhead:
 
basically the disgraceful and frustrating thing about this for me is the fact that certain people (sadly quite a few) view a pool hall as being in the same category as a massage parlour. :S
 
rackmsuckr said:
I think that's probably why Dr. Cue's is going out of business. Dave has a heck of a poolroom with very reasonable rates. Originally, Mike and I were going to run their tournaments at the Golden Fleece.

Btw, who is your instructor?


Dr. Cues is going out of business?! Damn, that is the first I have heard of this. So where is the action in Seattle now?
 
What About Both?

worriedbeef said:
basically the disgraceful and frustrating thing about this for me is the fact that certain people (sadly quite a few) view a pool hall as being in the same category as a massage parlour. :S

Don't think they will like my charges from my Bangkok trips.
 
Credit cards are definitely a great tool to use responsibly ILO carrying cash. However I really can't blame anyone (whether private party or corporation) for using whatever model they want to in order to determine someones creditworthiness. Too bad that pool halls get the negative image that they do though....wish they didn't......

td
 
Don't feed the imbeciles...

rackmsuckr said:
That seems a bit condescending. If I want to use a credit card to accrue air miles, that I pay off every month, then that is my business. And I am acting my wage. :scratchhead:

I apologize if I seemed condescending. I only meant to give a little good advice. I am very direct and often come across a bit brusque.

However you handle your money or your debt is your business. However, you made it public when you posted it in this public forum. So you have to expect idiots like myself and others to respond with their opinions.

And, at the risk of insulting you more, if you pay off your credit balance every month, why are worried about your credit score??
 
Russ Chewning said:
Yes. This allows them to "cook the books", right? :nono: :D

Russ
LOL... It really isn't any more difficult to "cook the books" with credit card or debit card transactions.
 
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