Can you influence the cb while it is rolling?
- Thread starter ndakotan
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ShootingArts said:
This would be my biggest concern as well.....also, X2 on the cue upside the head comment
Not sure of the exact impact and how much force would be truly required, but any type of tapping and/or banging on the table should effect the cue ball, even if it is ever so slight....and if it's enough to change the natural roll, then it's cheating, and the act of a common theif....
Love The Game said:
Then there's always Melvin's "Gerry Curl" rack.
I remember playing Chuey one time and I hit broke the balls dead straight, HARD and two balls went flying around the table, the CB stuck to the rack and 7 balls were still within the triangle.
But the dude can play.
Cheers,
RC
Mythbusters
I saw the bridge vibration episode of mythbusters. The thing with the bridge though is that they were transferring the vibration through metal. If you hit any metal, it will vibrate, even if it is a large structural member. The thing with pool tables is that the vibration would change from material to material and would be a lot harder to get the right vibration. Even if you could find the right frequency for the vibration, it has to be a constant rhythm to get the vibration to travel enough to cause interference. Even if it does travel, would you be able to time it just right to cause interference with the cue ball?
I don't think so, but I'm not saying it isn't possible. It is extremely unlikely and I don't think it would do anything.
ShootingArts said:
I saw the bridge vibration episode of mythbusters. The thing with the bridge though is that they were transferring the vibration through metal. If you hit any metal, it will vibrate, even if it is a large structural member. The thing with pool tables is that the vibration would change from material to material and would be a lot harder to get the right vibration. Even if you could find the right frequency for the vibration, it has to be a constant rhythm to get the vibration to travel enough to cause interference. Even if it does travel, would you be able to time it just right to cause interference with the cue ball?
I don't think so, but I'm not saying it isn't possible. It is extremely unlikely and I don't think it would do anything.
i've absolutely no doubt this is true. but it's effect is probably so tiny it's pointless doing.
dabarbr said:
One of your favorite moves "El Barber".
The real point is, that YOU SHOULDN'T BE TAPPING THE TABLE ANYTIME PERIOD! Whether it actually affects the balls or not, even the slightest perception that it might or could affect the balls, is wrong enough.
It boils down to this,
1. If tapping the table affects the roll of the cue ball, then you don't need to do it.
2. If tapping the table doesn't affect the roll of the cue ball, then you don't need to do it.
In addition, tapping the table opens the door to a very slippery slope. What if you tap it twice as hard or really pound it? Does that have an effect? Thus if you tap it half as hard as that, does it have half as much effect?
Now, how hard is legal tapping, and how hard is too hard? And finally, what's the remedy if the player did tap it too hard? Do you move the cue ball to where you think it would've been? Do you give up ball in hand??? Is it automatic forfeit for unsportsmanlike / cheating behavior?
Some things are just better avoided, altogether.
It boils down to this,
1. If tapping the table affects the roll of the cue ball, then you don't need to do it.
2. If tapping the table doesn't affect the roll of the cue ball, then you don't need to do it.
In addition, tapping the table opens the door to a very slippery slope. What if you tap it twice as hard or really pound it? Does that have an effect? Thus if you tap it half as hard as that, does it have half as much effect?
Now, how hard is legal tapping, and how hard is too hard? And finally, what's the remedy if the player did tap it too hard? Do you move the cue ball to where you think it would've been? Do you give up ball in hand??? Is it automatic forfeit for unsportsmanlike / cheating behavior?
Some things are just better avoided, altogether.
Love The Game said:
Everyone accuses Chuey of cheating. I played with him almost every week for a year on a league team and I believe whole heartedly that he does not cheat. In fact he is vehemently against it.
OK, back to the subject at hand, I don't think slight tapping would have any measureable affect. I think if it were possible to actually get the cue ball to bounce, then it might be effective, like a golf ball hopping during a putt.
BTW, Love The Game, who are you? And who would you have these out of towners play? Why didn't you get someone to match up with Chris Bartrum while he was here? hell I had to play his partner.
mosconiac said:
Tap Tap, ... yes it was intended.
Alex Kanapilly said:
I played against him several times a week for many years and while I never knew him to intentionally cheat, he does take many bathroom breaks and could work on giving his opponents a better rack
One time when I was playing him, it was the finals of a tourney, and his posse was sitting there talking loudly in Spanish about me, about how he would beat me, etc...I don't think they realized that I understood Spanish until I told them politely IN SPANISH that if they wanted to talk, they should sit somewhere else. The looks on their faces were priceless.
While he may not outright cheat, he definitely did nothing to try and discourage them from sharking me.
While I admire his game and like him personally, he won't get any sportsmanhsip awards from me. You, on the other hand, would. (get a sportsmanship award, that is.)
Cheers,
RC
sixpack said:I played against him several times a week for many years and while I never knew him to intentionally cheat, he does take many bathroom breaks and could work on giving his opponents a better rack
One time when I was playing him, it was the finals of a tourney, and his posse was sitting there talking loudly in Spanish about me, about how he would beat me, etc...I don't think they realized that I understood Spanish until I told them politely IN SPANISH that if they wanted to talk, they should sit somewhere else. The looks on their faces were priceless.
While he may not outright cheat, he definitely did nothing to try and discourage them from sharking me.
While I admire his game and like him personally, he won't get any sportsmanhsip awards from me. You, on the other hand, would. (get a sportsmanship award, that is.)
Cheers,
RC
Well, I played with him in leagues, there was no posse around. I think he gets a bad rap... yes I know I'm in the minority here. You can always check the rack, and against a notoriously bad one (racker that is), why wouldn't you?
This is BS.......
everybody knows you gotta get all JEDI like with whitey to make him stop...
tapping the table...scheesh....rooks!!
everybody knows you gotta get all JEDI like with whitey to make him stop...
tapping the table...scheesh....rooks!!
Alex Kanapilly said:
i'm sure that playing WITH him you saw a different side of him than I did playing against him. As I said, I don't have a problem with him at all. My original post was just reporting an incident where the discussed item had reportedly happened (albeit in a different form) in a competitive situation.
I don't check the rack...one of my flaws as a player. It has cost me plenty over my playing days..I probably will start doing it one day.
Cheers,
RC
EDIT: As long as we're talking about it, if I had to list all the players who have given me a bad rack, either intentionally or unintentionally, it would be a long list. By the same token, if you were to list all the players who thought I gave them a bad rack, either intentionally or unintentionally, it would be a long list too. I don't know other player's motivations, but in a gambling or tournament situation, I've never intentionally given anyone a bad rack. So I think it's pretty safe to say that there are a lot of players who get an undeserved bad rap for bad racks...as well as some who get too much benefit of the doubt.
Personally, when it comes to Chuey, I think he's careless when he racks more than doing anything intentional. Maybe he's tightened it up in recent years, it's been at least 5 since I've seen him.
One time I was playing a player whom I have the utmost respect for in a 'fast 8' tournament. I ran a bunch of games on him from the break and looked like I would run the set out and then I got one of the worst racks EVER....to this day I don't know if it was intentional or not, but he ran out the set from there. I never got back to the table.
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sixpack said:
I bet it's going to cost you more now. BTW Chris O and his family were over for a BBQ a couple of Sundays ago and I told him you were on here, not sure if he's reading the forums yet.
yeesh, has nobody seen this mannerism/tic?
What I do (and see all the time) is ... after I've shot and I'm staying down (hopefully), I watch the travel of the ball, and I see it's gonna overrun its position because I put too much speed on it, I start tapping my index or middle finger increasingly quickly... not to influence anything, just as a reaction. My friend does the same but also says out loud something like... tch tch tch hold up hold up HOLD UP.
It's like the invisible brakes mentioned before. Ever have your significant other in the passenger seat, and you're coming up on a stop sign and they think you're coming up on it too fast, and their foot starts tapping rapidly?
The announcer just decided to make a joke of it, like one might observe swaying their stick to the side and say "he's trying to steer the cueball with body english"
What I do (and see all the time) is ... after I've shot and I'm staying down (hopefully), I watch the travel of the ball, and I see it's gonna overrun its position because I put too much speed on it, I start tapping my index or middle finger increasingly quickly... not to influence anything, just as a reaction. My friend does the same but also says out loud something like... tch tch tch hold up hold up HOLD UP.
It's like the invisible brakes mentioned before. Ever have your significant other in the passenger seat, and you're coming up on a stop sign and they think you're coming up on it too fast, and their foot starts tapping rapidly?
The announcer just decided to make a joke of it, like one might observe swaying their stick to the side and say "he's trying to steer the cueball with body english"
um, have you ever . . .
"fraid this thought won't fly. Note I said that his partner started tapping on the rail, not the shooter. This was a deliberate effort to influence the outcome of the shot. I have never played such games so I can't report if it has any effect or not but messing with the table during a shot is BS regardless.
Hu
"fraid this thought won't fly. Note I said that his partner started tapping on the rail, not the shooter. This was a deliberate effort to influence the outcome of the shot. I have never played such games so I can't report if it has any effect or not but messing with the table during a shot is BS regardless.
Hu
CreeDo said: