Captain wont share scoresheet or info on opponent

I've played for a number of years and have been a league president and captain for many years. It does not matter to me to even fills out the score sheet, first guy there, get it done, does not matter which player has the score sheet in front of him during the match, get it done. However, the whole team I shoot with expects all players to know when they shoot next, who they shoot and what the team needs of them. We shoot point system of VNEA where each solid or stripe is worth a point and 8 ball worth 3 points, so, if it's protecting a lead, taking a chance or playing a safe, or leaving a cue ball at a certain spot ( need to know if the guy / gal your shooting against can percentage make a couple tough shots or not ) need to have your head in the game when your at the table. If your not shooting, know when you shoot, otherwise sit back and have a good time. The score sheet is not a big deal, but, players can use it as motivation as the old I got your back saying can come up. As a league president, twice, I have gone to a team when all players are present and have suggested that they select a new captain as the current one is not ideal to the fun and nature of our good league system that many people have invested time in, money in and mostly want to have a good time. 98 % of the captains get it. We took on a new player this year in our team who just felt he needed the score sheet in front of him at all times, maybe just being helpful ??, It would be laying in front of someone and he would reach over the table and grab it to sit in front of him. After several league nights of him doing this, I let him look at the sheet and asked him if he was done with the score sheet, grabbed it, put it back in front of the person it was sitting by and said that at age 48, Bill has proven over the last 25 years that he can add just as well as everyone else. Broke the ice and now he's on board. My suggestion is first, I like a previous suggestion here that yes, bring your copy and you and your fellow team mates should keep score and if your captain says something, you can say, you won't share our official score sheet so we can see it, but, further more, since your ability of keeping a score sheet has been caught to be inaccurate, we would just assume to keep a score sheet to match up with yours before approaching the other team as we don't want to look like we are passing a fast one. Polite way of calling him out or making him know that you and your team mates are going to present a accurate score sheet.
My suggestion, all the team should approach him and let him know if he does not get it together and relax, he will be looking for a handful of people to shoot with and his captain days may be over.
Just my opinion.
 
What kind of success in team winning does your captain have? I doubt that he has had too much success. Main point of any sport...if it stops being fun, don't do it anymore.

Sounds like your S/L 4 captain is a control freak. I can't imagine not telling a team member the skill level of an opponent. That determines how you play the game. The captain controls the matchups, so that is his chance to control things.

Unless you really like the rest of your teammates, find another team, or start your own. Maybe some of your current teammates would like to play without the dominant captain, too.

Joe
 
Matt said:
However, when you get down into the APA ranks, your opponents are going to have significant weaknesses in their game that you can take advantage of to improve your chances of winning.
In particular, a weak defensive shot becomes a viable option
Click to expand...

For me personally, the tactics do not change unless the opponent is 8 or 9.
Then I might pass up marginal shots and safe instead.
For ranks 1-7, I play them all the same way.
Obviously you must be triple careful not to give up BIH vs. 1's and 2's
but you should be doing that anyway vs. everyone, right?

My thinking is, whatever tactics you would use vs. an A player,
should also beat an APA 4.

Now, is it possible you could beat the APA 4 even harder
by safing a lot and getting multiple ball in hands? Maybe.

But if I chose to treat everyone like SVB, I can't imagine my win rate goes down,
and probably it will go up.

jmeier1981 said:
I hate to disagree but knowing your opponents skill level
or ball count should make a difference in how you play your game...
It should help you decide if you should try and run out a marginal table or if and when to play a safety.
Click to expand...

I mostly decide that kind of thing based on my own shooting ability, not on theirs.
For every marginal shot I try to miss safe. I might slightly change this if they're an 8 or 9.
But those are very rare, so for the most part you can put me against 99% of the league
and I will play the rack the same way.

Since APA 9-ball credits you with each ball, I don't worry so much about running all the way
to the 9 ball and making it. If there's a cluster and I can't break it out easily,
my gameplan vs. a 3 is the same as my gameplan vs. a 7:
Run as many balls as I can before I'm forced to safe.

Or if you only need one more ball its good to know so you just try to make that ball and not potentially miss trying to get shaoe on the next shot...
Click to expand...

100% agree, I ask whoever is keeping score to warn me when I need 2 balls.

Me personally I would just tell the captain if hes not willing to communicate and work with you to not bother throwing you and to play someone else.
Click to expand...

I do think the captain was an ass by taking his point too far and literally REFUSING
to tell the guy. But I think he means well and is making a good point.
The opponent's level isn't that relevant. At least, not to me.
Maybe it matters more in the lower ranks if a player can't run out.
 
All valid points, CreeDo, for a 9, or any top level player. You have the ability to dictate virtually everything that happens. Most players in APA aren't that capable, so strategy certainly can be helpful. Runout players don't need it nearly so much, in APA.

For clarification, RJ, there is no restriction on who can and who cannot jump. The restriction is on the equipment, namely no jump cues allowed. Which opens up a whole other argument about what cues are allowed, which isn't relevant to this particular discussion.
 
Matt said:
However, when you get down into the APA ranks, your opponents are going to have significant weaknesses in their game that you can take advantage of to improve your chances of winning.
In particular, a weak defensive shot becomes a viable option
Click to expand...

For me personally, the tactics do not change for ranks 1-7.
I'll admit for 8 & 9 I get more cautious, no flyers.
And obviously you must be triple careful not to give up BIH vs. 1's and 2's
but you should be doing that anyway vs. everyone, right?

But my thinking is, what if I am triple careful not to give up BIH vs. EVERY opponent?
What if I play conservative and refuse to take flyers vs. EVERY opponent?

My win rate can only go up, right?
You can get away with playing lazy vs. an APA4 or APA5,
and maybe you can get lots of BIH's playing weak safes.
But if I treated them like I treat 8's and 9's, then I'm safing more often anyway.

jmeier1981 said:
I hate to disagree but knowing your opponents skill level
or ball count should make a difference in how you play your game...
It should help you decide if you should try and run out a marginal table or if and when to play a safety.
Click to expand...

I mostly decide that kind of thing based on my own shooting ability, not on theirs.
For every marginal shot I try to miss it in a way that gets safe (aka 2-way).
I might just go 100% for the safe vs. an 8 or 9 but those are rare in my league.
Against the other 99% of players I shoot those marginal balls the same way.

Since APA 9-ball credits you with each ball, I don't worry so much about running all the way
to the 9 ball and making it. If there's a cluster and I can't break it out easily,
my gameplan vs. a 3 is the same as my gameplan vs. a 7:
Run as many balls as I can before I'm forced to safe.

Or if you only need one more ball its good to know so you just try to make that ball and not potentially miss trying to get shaoe on the next shot...
Click to expand...

100% agree, I ask whoever is keeping score to warn me when either I need a few balls, or they do.

Me personally I would just tell the captain if hes not willing to communicate and work with you to not bother throwing you and to play someone else.
Click to expand...

I do think the captain was an ass by taking his point too far and literally REFUSING
to tell the guy. But I think he means well and is just trying to give his teammate a useful lesson.
For me personally the opponent's level is almost entirely not relevant.
Maybe that would be different if I'm a 3 or 4, I'll have to think on that one.
 
Strategy

Shawn Armstrong said:
I think the OP is focusing on something that really isn't important, in the larger scheme of things. I played leagues to play pool. Not to ***** and whine about people, their handicaps, or how my captain runs a team.

If he doesn't like the team, LEAVE. There's no quorum needed to vote out the captain of the team. This isn't an episode of Suits. He's an adult. 40-41, judging by his screen name. He's played league for 19 years, and this is the first time he's encountered a douchebag captain?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Having played more than 70 seasons in leagues since I organized one in 1966, and played on league, association, state and international champion teams, I've always considered the skill level of my opponents when making strategic decisions.

I've also somehow managed to finish the season with league high average 47 times.

But what the hell do I know!
 
CreeDo said:
For me personally, the tactics do not change for ranks 1-7.
I'll admit for 8 & 9 I get more cautious, no flyers.
And obviously you must be triple careful not to give up BIH vs. 1's and 2's
but you should be doing that anyway vs. everyone, right?

But my thinking is, what if I am triple careful not to give up BIH vs. EVERY opponent?
What if I play conservative and refuse to take flyers vs. EVERY opponent?

My win rate can only go up, right?
You can get away with playing lazy vs. an APA4 or APA5,
and maybe you can get lots of BIH's playing weak safes.
But if I treated them like I treat 8's and 9's, then I'm safing more often anyway.
Click to expand...
I think that not giving up BIH and avoiding flyers is a good idea against any player. What I was saying in my post is that if you don't understand your opponent's capabilities, you miss out on the opportunity to exploit their weaknesses to overcome the massive spots you have to give up. If you have the game to beat world class players, you're going to be so much better that it won't matter, but if you are just an average 9, the ball spots against lower ranked players can be tough to overcome based on execution alone. To beat the spot when you aren't executing your best, you can use tactics against lower ranked players that wouldn't work against another 9 to allow you to win.

If you're on top of your game, you can beat any skill level by just playing the table, but when you aren't on your game you can exploit your opponent's weaknesses to pull out a win anyways.
 
As a NAPA captain I have to say, this guy is a moron. I make all of my players aware of their opponents skill level. This guy is on some retarded power trip. I suggest viewing the score sheets online via smart phone or look up your opponents rank at home before the match. If all else fails, try and get on a new team, screw that guy.
 
I'm very sorry that my opinion differs from all of you with regards to strategy. I'm a crappy skill level 3 in CPA, which would equate to a 2 in the APA. I don't know which end of the cue to use, and have very little knowledge of strategy.

I never need to know how long the race between me and the other player are, because it's merely a formality for me to put my money into the envelope, lose, and shake my opponent's hand. I've never captained a team, and everyone in the leagues I played in considered me the biggest asshole in the room.

Let's make this a forum for people who merely want validation. To the OP, I offer a hug, a pat on the back, and the suggestion that you are correct....your captain is a douche, and it should be your mission in life to make him nicer, because everyone should be as courteous and as right as you are. Go get 'em, tiger!
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Yeah, you're the guy posting to a newsgroup, seeking validation as to whether your captain is a douche or not, and I'm the one with issues.

Based on the fact you're over 40, I'd call your mom and ask if she could send you a spine.

Maybe Dr. Phil would host you and your league team....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Sounds to me like youre the one watching Dr. Phil at your Moms house while missing the guys on your highschool cheerleading squad. People only talk about what they know; so yeah Id say youre the one with issues. I just asked a simple question as a newbie. I guess you cant avoid the Toolbags in the pool hall or the pool forum.
 
LongGreen73 said:
Sounds to me like youre the one watching Dr. Phil at your Moms house while missing the guys on your highschool cheerleading squad. People only talk about what they know; so yeah Id say youre the one with issues. I just asked a simple question as a newbie. I guess you cant avoid the Toolbags in the pool hall or the pool forum.
Click to expand...

Here's what I know. I don't need an internet group to tell me whether I should stay on a team or not. And I don't need to ask a newsgroup if my captain is or isn't a tool. My mom and dad raised me with the necessary skills to actually communicate with people I have issues with, such as yourself.

Leave the team. Or don't. I could really care less. But the fact that you aren't 14, and need a group to tell you what you think you should do speaks volumes.

I've told you how a "real" person should act. The sugar coated crowd has shown you how to play games, and piss people off. If you want to know what your opponent's skill level is, ASK THEM. Not your captain, but the person you're playing. I was a 7 when I played, so I didn't care WHAT ranking they were. I played to win 5 racks. If your opponent won't tell you, ask THEIR captain. Someone in the room will know what their rank is. Your captain is a dick. I'm not sure you needed anyone to tell you this.

I'm going to go back to sitting in my mom's basement, and watch Dr. Phil. You can get back to grade 5 spelling and grammar. My 10 year old son writes more coherently than you. Are we done yet?
 
Thank you to all the members with good suggestions, there was a lot I didn't think of, I had never been online to see my stats, team ranking or the score sheets, thanks for the help. This is my first douche Captain. I have only been playing league for a couple years.

Im going to finish the season. It didn't hit me that this Captain has been playing almost 20 years and he is only a SL4 until you guys brought it up. Another guy on my team told me the Captain doesn't want me to win all the time so he messes with me during those matches he wants me to lose and that's why he doesn't say anything or even leaves the room on the matches he needs me to win. He also told me that Im one of many in the league that cant stand playing on his team which is why many have quit his team. So next season I have two other teams lined up. I cant recall who said the next time he messes with me I should shoot one handed. That one was pretty good, and I will keep that in the back of my mind. Another thing that I have in the back of my mind is to check out local tournaments from your posts, that sounds like something worth check out. Its a real shame that a douche captain is a normal thing in leagues after how many years of organized pool leagues. You would think the league operators would get a handle on that after all these years.

Well thanks for all the help, this is a good forum.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Here's what I know. I don't need an internet group to tell me whether I should stay on a team or not. And I don't need to ask a newsgroup if my captain is or isn't a tool. My mom and dad raised me with the necessary skills to actually communicate with people I have issues with, such as yourself.

Leave the team. Or don't. I could really care less. But the fact that you aren't 14, and need a group to tell you what you think you should do speaks volumes.

I've told you how a "real" person should act. The sugar coated crowd has shown you how to play games, and piss people off. If you want to know what your opponent's skill level is, ASK THEM. Not your captain, but the person you're playing. I was a 7 when I played, so I didn't care WHAT ranking they were. I played to win 5 racks. If your opponent won't tell you, ask THEIR captain. Someone in the room will know what their rank is. Your captain is a dick. I'm not sure you needed anyone to tell you this.

I'm going to go back to sitting in my mom's basement, and watch Dr. Phil. You can get back to grade 5 spelling and grammar. My 10 year old son writes more coherently than you. Are we done yet?
Click to expand...


Good riddance
 
LongGreen73 said:
I cant recall who said the next time he messes with me I should shoot one handed. That one was pretty good, and I will keep that in the back of my mind.
Well thanks for all the help, this is a good forum.
Click to expand...

So, you'd disrespect your opponent by shooting one handed, and affect THEIR skill level to piss off your captain. Yeah, I'm the one that needs help.

Keep listening to those people. You'll fit right in with your captain. And Sharkster.
 
While I don't think I have this issue...because my Captain is pretty forthcoming...I simply ask 'how many games do I need to win to take the set?' By doing this, it allows me to focus in on the task at hand, and to make every attempt to cross the Finish Line first.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
So, you'd disrespect your opponent by shooting one handed, and affect THEIR skill level to piss off your captain. Yeah, I'm the one that needs help.

Keep listening to those people. You'll fit right in with your captain. And Sharkster.
Click to expand...


Its funny Shawn, I will keep it in mind; people have laughed that know this miserable captain when they heard the joke. Lighten up and enjoy life. I originally sent you a link to mental health clinics in your area but it got held up for the moderator's approval. I don't think he should send it after thinking about it. If it comes through I apologize for stepping to your level.
 
LongGreen73 said:
Thank you to all the members with good suggestions, there was a lot I didn't think of, I had never been online to see my stats, team ranking or the score sheets, thanks for the help. This is my first douche Captain. I have only been playing league for a couple years.

Im going to finish the season. It didn't hit me that this Captain has been playing almost 20 years and he is only a SL4 until you guys brought it up. Another guy on my team told me the Captain doesn't want me to win all the time so he messes with me during those matches he wants me to lose and that's why he doesn't say anything or even leaves the room on the matches he needs me to win. He also told me that Im one of many in the league that cant stand playing on his team which is why many have quit his team. So next season I have two other teams lined up. I cant recall who said the next time he messes with me I should shoot one handed. That one was pretty good, and I will keep that in the back of my mind. Another thing that I have in the back of my mind is to check out local tournaments from your posts, that sounds like something worth check out. Its a real shame that a douche captain is a normal thing in leagues after how many years of organized pool leagues. You would think the league operators would get a handle on that after all these years.

Well thanks for all the help, this is a good forum.
Click to expand...

I suspect he is a 4 because he sandbags.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top