Carbide CUTTER HELP, Please

Duane Remick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a mini lathe,
that I use to install tips
what is the best shape of a cutting tool for facing a ferrule...
a very sharp point
a flat cutter
a angled cutter????
Please feel free to post pics if you can
THANK YOU!
 
I have a mini lathe,
that I use to install tips
what is the best shape of a cutting tool for facing a ferrule...
a very sharp point
a flat cutter
a angled cutter????
Please feel free to post pics if you can
THANK YOU!

Chris sells some nice cutters that will work perfect for you. I would contact him.
Me personally i have been using a carbide triangle insert tool lately and i like it.
 
I used to have the HSS tools and sharpened them all the time. I went to the 1/4 inch indexed carbide tools and never looked back. You can shop and find a set of 5 for $18.

Those red tool bits with the soldered in carbide bits are junk.

You can actually make a HSS tool sharper than carbide but you have to keep sharpening them.

The carbide inserts last and last and then you just turn it to a new cutting edge.


Kim
 
Both have their uses.

For example,Ivorine 4 simply can't be cut with anything BUT carbide.

HSS cuts cleaner on certain materials,leaving a better finish quality.

Both can be reground any way you want,but it requires time,skill,and a point in the right direction if you've never been shown how to regrind properly.

A skilled person can make carbide scary sharp. The cheap brazed cutters can be quite good,but often they have to be completely reground out of the box.

The problem I have with indexable cutters is the cutter's body itself.

I too bought one of those cheap HF sets,and every one of them is made poorly enough that the insert has slop in it,and you can see the insert move if you change direction with the lathe carriage. No amount of torque on the screw changes it either.

I do have a Micro 100 SDJCR that uses a DCMT carbide insert. I bought inserts with just a .007 nose radius,and they don't even cut leather,they just push it out of the way. I just use them for metals now.

Maybe a different insert for that holder would produce a better result.

I am a huge fan of the Micro 100 brazed carbides though.

For facing cuts,I turn my toolpost just a little towards the face so it has relief both ways. Tommy D.
 
Both have their uses.

For example,Ivorine 4 simply can't be cut with anything BUT carbide.

HSS cuts cleaner on certain materials,leaving a better finish quality.

Both can be reground any way you want,but it requires time,skill,and a point in the right direction if you've never been shown how to regrind properly.

A skilled person can make carbide scary sharp. The cheap brazed cutters can be quite good,but often they have to be completely reground out of the box.

The problem I have with indexable cutters is the cutter's body itself.

I too bought one of those cheap HF sets,and every one of them is made poorly enough that the insert has slop in it,and you can see the insert move if you change direction with the lathe carriage. No amount of torque on the screw changes it either.

I do have a Micro 100 SDJCR that uses a DCMT carbide insert. I bought inserts with just a .007 nose radius,and they don't even cut leather,they just push it out of the way. I just use them for metals now.

Maybe a different insert for that holder would produce a better result.

I am a huge fan of the Micro 100 brazed carbides though.

For facing cuts,I turn my toolpost just a little towards the face so it has relief both ways. Tommy D.

I totally agree with most of what you said especially"A skilled person can make carbide scary sharp. The cheap brazed cutters can be quite good,but often they have to be completely reground out of the box." There is many types of carbide so the real cheap ones are harder to get really sharp as the carbide is to coarse. A little better, finer grained carbide can be sharpened well enough to fillet a fish. You just need to regrind the angles to a much sharper apex and sharpen them with a radius at the tip. A diamond wheel pays for itself very quickly.

Dick
 
I guess there's a difference between what works and what's best, but High speed steel is what I use most of the time, and It faces most materials well enough, providing that It is kept sharp. They are easier to sharpen IMO, and I can grind whatever rake or angle that I want. Several different profiles will work for facing, especially If you can manufacture the angle where You want It set at by using the tool post. I mean I have even used a short flat boring bar before, because I was in a rush and did not feel like sharpening another tool at the time. It's not intended for that sort of thing, but Still providing Me with a flat face, that did not rock, and shows that many things will work.

I use carbide tooling too, but mostly in the form of drills and reamers. The lathe tools made from It are harder to sharpen then HSS as mentioned, but as also mentioned BY Tommy is a person's skill, and also the quality of the carbide plays a roll in how sharp they turn out. I also believe a better quality grinder is better suited for sharpening It, as with HSS I can get away with just using a cheap common bench grinder with cheap grinding wheels. Obviously I'm not an expert at sharpening carbide, but I do know of different grades being available. I think It's the micro type carbide that is easier to sharpen. I believe It rolls off in finer balls then some types of carbide, as is what I believe Dick was alluding to in his post, although He can correct me if I'm mistaken. It's easier to sharpen as a result, and seems like It holds a edge longer, but again I'm not an expert on sharpening It. and that's about the extent of My knowledge on It.

I guess for some people the index-able insert type may be one way to go, and just treat them like throw a ways when all sides are dull, although I have not had very good luck with those. I have heard that some people do though, so Maybe It's just that I have not tried the right brand, type or profile. I have not tried very many of them out, so I guess I just didn't stumble across the right type on My own, and I haven't tried out the ones recommended in past posts on this site yet.
 
I bought a bunch of armstrong and kennametal carbide cutters off ebay and had them ground razor sharp with needle points. I've used the same cutter for a LONG time on wood, deer antlers, plastics, and even a little bit of aluminum and I can't tell any difference in the sharpness of it. HSS has its uses, but if I can use carbide, that's what I use. I also use carbide drills and endmills, but I'm experimenting a little bit with cobalt.

Joe
 
I've been using kennametal kc-315 with a ccmt 21.51.
Love them!
Got the same grade on order for the big lathe in 31.51
 
I've been using kennametal kc-315 with a ccmt 21.51.
Love them!
Got the same grade on order for the big lathe in 31.51

You can find those cutters on ebay quite often for way cheaper than brand new stock. The ones I bought were new square bits, but I didn't care because I was getting them ground down anyway.

Joe
 
Razor sharp tooling is rarely needed except in extremely soft materials. If you want your cutters to last longer before regrinding check into rake and relief angles and surface feet per minute for the materials you cut. These are the reasons tools wear too quickly.
 
You can find those cutters on ebay quite often for way cheaper than brand new stock. The ones I bought were new square bits, but I didn't care because I was getting them ground down anyway.

Joe

.51 for facing.
.52 for turning.
TCGT 32.52 for turning for me. Cuts leather pretty darn nice too.
 
Both have their uses.



I do have a Micro 100 SDJCR that uses a DCMT carbide insert. I bought inserts with just a .007 nose radius,and they don't even cut leather,they just push it out of the way. I just use them for metals now.




There are positive rake inserts for cutting Aluminum in the DCMT style inserts with the .2mm nose radius.
 
.51 for facing.
.52 for turning.
TCGT 32.52 for turning for me. Cuts leather pretty darn nice too.

When you say it cuts leather, what do you mean? I havent done any wraps yet, but I thought that leather wraps were done by hand. Then again, im an idiot, lol.

Joe
 
I found that the grade of insert I like is not available on eBay.
The supplier I get them from is pretty good on the prices, and they rep klimgspoor sandpaper as well, so I keep shopping there :)
 
I used to have the HSS tools and sharpened them all the time. I went to the 1/4 inch indexed carbide tools and never looked back. You can shop and find a set of 5 for $18.

Those red tool bits with the soldered in carbide bits are junk.

You can actually make a HSS tool sharper than carbide but you have to keep sharpening them.

The carbide inserts last and last and then you just turn it to a new cutting edge.


Kim

Are you referring to those sold by Harbor Freight for $14.99 or $19.99? If so, where would you recommend buying some?
 
Both have their uses.

For example,Ivorine 4 simply can't be cut with anything BUT carbide.

HSS cuts cleaner on certain materials,leaving a better finish quality.

Both can be reground any way you want,but it requires time,skill,and a point in the right direction if you've never been shown how to regrind properly.

A skilled person can make carbide scary sharp. The cheap brazed cutters can be quite good,but often they have to be completely reground out of the box.

The problem I have with indexable cutters is the cutter's body itself.

I too bought one of those cheap HF sets,and every one of them is made poorly enough that the insert has slop in it,and you can see the insert move if you change direction with the lathe carriage. No amount of torque on the screw changes it either.

I do have a Micro 100 SDJCR that uses a DCMT carbide insert. I bought inserts with just a .007 nose radius,and they don't even cut leather,they just push it out of the way. I just use them for metals now.

Maybe a different insert for that holder would produce a better result.

I am a huge fan of the Micro 100 brazed carbides though.

For facing cuts,I turn my toolpost just a little towards the face so it has relief both ways. Tommy D.

Good writeup.

I generally use HSS for lathe bits (carbide for router bits and boring bars). Its easy enough to resharpen. I have several of the same shape tools. I never let them get too dull so they are easy to sharpen. Take a couple thou off and good as new. When they dull I put them in the the regrind box and resharpen them all at the same time.

If you try to use the square bits right out of the box you'll run into problems. I'd have to look at my grinder but I believe my angles are set for 10 degrees. You want a rake angle on the top (it angles back away from the cutting edge). Your cutting face will be straight (angled down from the top edge) and the front end angled across and down as well, again mine is about 10 degrees. The angles are for clearance. I generally leave mine with a sharp point. You may want to put a tiny radius on the end. You can try it on the grinder but its really easy to take too much off. I usually prop the bit up at an angle and run a stone around the point keeping the 10 degree clearance angle. The radius causes a little more pressure but it holds up a little better and also leaves a nicer finish. You really only need a radius of maybe .005 (about 1/2 the diameter of 2 hairs)

You want a flatter rake surface for hard materials but for softer materials you want decent angles for shearing, clearance and chip breaking. Hard to remember exactly how this works but essentially carbide is for pushing the metal off where HSS is for shearing it off. So for plastic you want decent angles, if you get them in carbide it should work just as well and hold up better.

A little note about regrind.
Form Tools: Say you make up a bit to cut multiple radii/angles for Joint Protectors. You only flat grind the top of the bit, you generally do not regrind the radii (the face of the tool).
Cutting Bits: (Left, right, etc cutting tools). You don't grind the top of the top (the rake angle). You only grind the face and sides. If you're using 10 degree angles, grinding .010 off the face only drops the height down about .001 so you probably don't need to reshim to get the center.

I love the micro 100 tools as well. That is some tough-a$$ carbide. All my BBS are Micro 100. FYI, there is nothing wrong with brazed carbide tools as long as they are good tools. Don't buy crap. Note, all carbide is not the same. Micro 100 is not the crap you will find at HF.

Those indexable cutters from HF are junk, don't waste your money. The problem with a lot of the indexable carbide/ceramic insert tools is that they are made for metal. So even though you see a chip breaker on the insert (that radius dish along the cutting edge) the top cutting edge of the insert is flat. For cutting metals that is fine but for wood and plastics it will try to push the wood/plastic away. They do sell inserts that will work but you have to look. Call one of the tooling companies and tell the Rep what you're looking for. The style inserts Joe Barringer used in his videos look to be the ones you want, nice shearing action. If you bought his videos he may tell you the model insert he uses.... but he's certainly under no obligation to do so. Buying something may grease the wheels of his kindness :)

Buy GOOD tooling. If MSC, Enco, MMC, etc. sell the tool you want for $10 and the cutrate place only wants $3 then guess what, they are probably crap.

One last thing. MAKE SURE YOUR BITS ARE IN LINE WITH THE CENTER OF YOUR WORKPIECE. The cutter tip should be dead center or a little lower. Lower as in a few thousandths NOT 1/16". Chuck up a dead center and bring the tip even with the point. I use an eye loupe now... getting too old to see small stuff.
 
One of the things I had to learn in school before I ever got to run a lathe was learn to grind properly,and had to show the instructor what rake/relief was.

I've had good results using a sharp tip on stuff we do,but even better to use a diamond block to leave a tiny radius,don't have a diamond wheel yet.

I didn't go into as much detail as I could have on my first post,but it's true,carbide does come in several quality levels. It also generates a lot more tool pressure.

I used the unbranded,cheap C2 cutters in the AR style for years,and never had a problem really,but often had to regrind right off the bat. I've had cutters that lasted over a year before sharpening was needed,but don't have anywhere near the repair volume some here have.

Once I bought the Micro 100 carbide,I'll never go back.

My parting tool is a HSS I ground myself from a 10% Cobalt HSS blank.

I also made myself a couple boring bars,and turned a crashed end mill into a single-point internal threading tool that worked great for a project in school,a 2-start multi-lead nut to fit the matching bolt.

A feeler gage set is what I use for shimming,don't have a QC yet either. I even made an aluminum strip for checking height so I'm not constantly using my 6" scale I've had since high school LOL. Tommy D.
 
One of the things I had to learn in school before I ever got to run a lathe was learn to grind properly,and had to show the instructor what rake/relief was.

I've had good results using a sharp tip on stuff we do,but even better to use a diamond block to leave a tiny radius,don't have a diamond wheel yet.

I didn't go into as much detail as I could have on my first post,but it's true,carbide does come in several quality levels. It also generates a lot more tool pressure.

I used the unbranded,cheap C2 cutters in the AR style for years,and never had a problem really,but often had to regrind right off the bat. I've had cutters that lasted over a year before sharpening was needed,but don't have anywhere near the repair volume some here have.

Once I bought the Micro 100 carbide,I'll never go back.

My parting tool is a HSS I ground myself from a 10% Cobalt HSS blank.

I also made myself a couple boring bars,and turned a crashed end mill into a single-point internal threading tool that worked great for a project in school,a 2-start multi-lead nut to fit the matching bolt.

A feeler gage set is what I use for shimming,don't have a QC yet either. I even made an aluminum strip for checking height so I'm not constantly using my 6" scale I've had since high school LOL. Tommy D.

good post here pard,,,,,a few ideas for you, a small carborundum (inexpensive) hand stone works good for honimg sharp edges,on carbide, and a Fine India on HSS,,,edges that are too sharp break down prematurely,,,,,, HSS parting tools are good, due to the nature of the cut, full load of contact, they absorb shock better, in mant cases carbide would shatter under heavy shock,,,,,,,and as far as setting lathe tools on center,,,,,,mount the tool in the tool post, then just swing it around and set the height at the tip of your live center,,,,it's always right.
 
I used to have the HSS tools and sharpened them all the time. I went to the 1/4 inch indexed carbide tools and never looked back. You can shop and find a set of 5 for $18.

Those red tool bits with the soldered in carbide bits are junk.

You can actually make a HSS tool sharper than carbide but you have to keep sharpening them.

The carbide inserts last and last and then you just turn it to a new cutting edge.


Kim

I bought a set of the indexed cutters a couple of months ago but I haven't tried em out. I've been using HSS for years and love the way they cut. But I'm not crazy about the frequent sharpening. And you're right, the red bits are crap. :cool:
 
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