ShootingArts said:
no, thats not true. i have had more than one instructor/pro player tell me its not wrong, just a personal preference thing.
DCP
CB or OB - Did I Misunderstand?
- Thread starter DrCue'sProtege
- Start date
no, thats not true. i have had more than one instructor/pro player tell me its not wrong, just a personal preference thing.
DCP
td873 said:Hu,
My suggestion had an alterior motive -> if he did the test, he would either justify his method or figure out looking at the OB last was better. Either way, he would have a definitive result and would drop the issueAs you succinctly pointed out, after the hour of testing, he could simply let this issue die its slow and painful death, lol.
-td
Ahha, I see seez the blind man! A bit sneaky there but it might work if he would at least test his theories. A man that can't learn from others is doomed to spend most of his life retracing the paths others have walked long ago. It's painful to watch and almost impossible not to try to prod him along to trod a little faster.
Hu
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DrCue'sProtege said:
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Hu
DrCue'sProtege said:
Then WHY did you even start this thread? You already have it all figured out, so stop asking for advice when you just discard all the advice besides what you WANT to hear. It makes no sense. If you aren't going to follow what everyone is telling you, stop asking these questions and just do what you want to do. Clearly these experts don't know what they're talking about, and you do, so stop wasting your time on them.
This is like starting a thread that says, "my stroke looks a lot like Francisco Bustamante's stroke. But I'm constantly missing shots that I feel I should make. Do you think I should try to straighten out my stroke?" Then people say, "yeah, you should", and you come back and say, "well Bustamante does it, and he's a champion, so why can't I? As long as the stroke is consistent and it works for you, what's the problem?"
Can you see the flaw in that reasoning? IT DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU!
ShootingArts wrote the following line in a response to DrCuesProtege (post #56 on this thread).
"In my gut I know this is a waste of time telling you but the reason folks get frustrated and annoyed trying to help you is that you seem to be the kind of person that would spend an hour arguing with a stop sign."
This may be the single best line I ever read on azb. You get rep points for this one line alone.
"In my gut I know this is a waste of time telling you but the reason folks get frustrated and annoyed trying to help you is that you seem to be the kind of person that would spend an hour arguing with a stop sign."
This may be the single best line I ever read on azb. You get rep points for this one line alone.
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jay helfert said:
Personally, I thought
"You better shoot better than shortstop speed if yer gonna woof at me, buddy!"
was a better line..
JMHO...
Russ
ShootingArts said:
not going to mention any names here. but i've repeatedly referred to the "Blonde In The 4th Row" comment many times on here. another was a fairly highly ranked (top 20) WPBA pro.
if you've followed my posts over the years you should be able to figure it out.
DCP
DrCue'sProtege said:
You're talking about Tom Rossman right? I have his little booklet on Fundamentals and "Secret Systems." (he gives a lot of banking and rail systems, I'm not sure how secret they are)
Anyway, he does say that he has mixed feelings on the subject of eye patterns, he says each has merits, and he focuses on the OB for shorter shots and the CB for longer shots. He says that if you have trouble making a shot by looking at the OB last, try looking at the CB. One justification is that you'll be able to see any improper movement of the cue or body and you can correct them easier in this position.
any instructor stands behind what they say
Instructors don't mind being named and I don't bother with guessing games. However I have seen enough of what you gained and missed interacting with other instructors that are active on this forum to be skeptical when you tell me what the ones I don't know about said. I also gather that you use the term "instructor" far more loosely than I do.
I'll sincerely wish you good luck, you are gonna need it.
Hu
DrCue'sProtege said:
Instructors don't mind being named and I don't bother with guessing games. However I have seen enough of what you gained and missed interacting with other instructors that are active on this forum to be skeptical when you tell me what the ones I don't know about said. I also gather that you use the term "instructor" far more loosely than I do.
I'll sincerely wish you good luck, you are gonna need it.
Hu
DrCue'sProtege said:
In the WPBA top 20, you will find 20 very good players. Of them, the number who are very good teachers would be significantly less. There may even be some who don't really know what their eyes do.
I have had many students, good players, tell me what their eyes are doing while they shoot. I put the video camera in front of them and have them shoot some shots, then watch. Often their eyes aren't following the pattern they told me they use.
You asked a question...you got multiple answers...and then you tell us all you are going to do it your way regardless. Why bother to ask?
If Allison and company tell you eyes on the OB, is that close enough to be considered the 11th commandment?
Steve
pooltchr said:
i agree about the top 20 WPBA players not necessarily being quality instructors. however, you can learn from anyone. if you pick up on just one or two things during the time you spend with each instructor/pro its probably a worthwhile investment.
and something tells me that Allison will not absolutely tell anyone they absolutely have to look at the OB last.
anyway, havent heard back from Allison, Ewa, or Ralf yet. will let you know if they respond.
DCP
DrCue'sProtege said:
I thought you were taking a break to learn what you haven't already learned.............and to come back and teach us all something?
How about you teach us all something in the pool hall and not on here! Oh yea I forgot you don't play pool with anyone in person!
My Bad! LOL
DrCue'sProtege said:
There's no such thing as stupid questions, just stupid people. His comment was based on the fact they covered that with you, it's in your training materials, and yet you still asked the question---- basically, proving you never read your materials or listened in class. I think that was his point.
You are changing your statement mid-thread, now you are arguing that someone said that you must absolutely look at the OB last. Nobody here said. Quite the contrary. You attempt to deflect this issue belies your understanding that you should look at the OB last. I.e., you should not ABSOLUTELY look at the CB last. No one is talking absolutes, but you somehow incorporated them...DrCue'sProtege said:
To reiterate, the advice given - many times - is:
1) there are times to look at the CB last, and times to look at the OB last
2) practice
3) do what works
You don't need an 11th commandment, pro advice, a self help book, an email, a memo, or a fortune cookie to confirm that.
IMO, your statements are moving targets that can't be addressed, because as soon as someone points out the flaw in your position, you immediately change the premise. This type of debating might work with 13 year olds on the playground, but here in grown-up land you had better have a defendable position, an argument without massive holes in it, or at the LEAST the humility to admit when your position was fundamentally and irreparably flawed. To simply argue for the sake of argument removes all incentive for people give advice...
Just my $0.02
-td
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DCP...the only two people I have ever heard of who look at the CB while delivering their final forward stroke are Ralf and you.
While that puts you in excellent company, you are also a tiny minority.
Cleary, I have not heard of what EVERYONE does or does not do so for all the hair-spltters, please accept my statement as written.
Personally, while I totally subscribe to the thesis that a fixed, routine eye pattern is very beneficial, I deviate from the SPF pattern in the following way.
My eye returns to the OB as I initiate the back stroke. That is more intuitive for me. I almost feel as though my eyes are being pulled up to the OB by a string attached to the cue.
In the end, my focus is intently on the OB before and at the end of the backstroke and to that extent, my method complies with SPF.
But again, I fully agree with the core philosophy that a systematic eye pattern is an awfully good idea.
Regards,
Jim
While that puts you in excellent company, you are also a tiny minority.
Cleary, I have not heard of what EVERYONE does or does not do so for all the hair-spltters, please accept my statement as written.
Personally, while I totally subscribe to the thesis that a fixed, routine eye pattern is very beneficial, I deviate from the SPF pattern in the following way.
My eye returns to the OB as I initiate the back stroke. That is more intuitive for me. I almost feel as though my eyes are being pulled up to the OB by a string attached to the cue.
In the end, my focus is intently on the OB before and at the end of the backstroke and to that extent, my method complies with SPF.
But again, I fully agree with the core philosophy that a systematic eye pattern is an awfully good idea.
Regards,
Jim