Challenge of Champions dump

[AtLarge]

... Here's one for AtLarge "how many times has CJ won three matches in a row in a major tournament on ESPN (singles and/or doubles)?" We'll make it multiple choice:

1) 0

2) 1

3) 2

4) 3

5) 4

Sorry, I have no interest in trying to research this one. But my quick answer would be none of the above, i.e., more than 4 times.

As you may remember, a few months ago I looked up info about your "world" championship in the 1996 ESPN World Open 9-Ball Championships, and posted the info here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4527950&postcount=112

In that event, you won 4 matches in a row to win the Men's Singles, 1 match to win the Mixed Singles, and 4 matches in a row to win the Mixed Doubles. So you won 9 matches in a row in that event. Now 9 in a row actually contains 3 in a row 7 times -- matches 1-2-3 and 2-3-4 and 3-4-5 and 4-5-6 and 5-6-7 and 6-7-8 and 7-8-9.

So, right there I have identified 7 groups of 3 in a row, meaning the correct answer is none of the choices you listed, and no further research is needed.

Now, on the other hand, some people would not call that a major tournament (despite the amount of money involved), because most of the top players were still in the PBT, which was holding their own event the same week.

 

[gregcantrall]

I was heavily involved in pool and played in the 'Challenge of Champions' in 1994.....there was NO MENTION of these claims by anyone, ......

There were a lot of things that a lot of pool players did in those days that did not get MENTIONED.

After hours at the Sands Reno tournament in the late 80's, I had a couple of non playing friends that were watching pro pool for the first time, come to me and ask me to tell this BIG NAME PLAYER(that I admired and respected) to leave them alone as this FAMOUS player with a STERLING reputation (that did not know them from Adam) was bugging them for coke. They did do it recreation-ally but were not dealers and only had enough for themselves.

I was sweating a money match so my wife(also a huge fan) volunteered to take this inebriated Pool Legend to the restaurant and try and get him sober and keep him from embarrassing himself further. His way of showing his gratitude for her concern was to make the rudest and most vulgar pass at her that a person could imagine. Needless to say he did not "Earn Loyalty" with me. I am sure his wife would never have believed it either.:frown:

 

[The Renfro]

Would you like to gamble SVB winner breaks 9-ball or 10-ball in modern standard professional rules in races to 7 getting 2/1 on the money on a neutral 9-foot diamond for $5,000+ on your end in each set?

Wow you backing this???

No?

Instead of 2 to 1 on the money how bout CJ gets 4 on the wire on his first break in a set and 3 on Shane's first break for the set.... race to 7 makes the spot huge btw whether you know it or not..

 

[The Renfro]

...............

 

[CJ Wiley]

There's some trivia about those two finals that are really unusual.

Thanks for the uncomplicated answer AtLarge.....I need an aspirin after trying to decipher that post. LoL

He's not even considering 97 and 98 where I won a cumulative 6 in a row (getting to the finals in both events). There's some trivia about those two finals that are really unusual.

It's interesting to see the "die hard" pool people still trying to knock ESPN's tournaments when they did more for pool in those three years (arguably) than having $10,000,000 in commercials.....they played their tournaments thousands of hours internationally......the impact was incredible...and still, some want to act like it was "no big deal" (the tournament in 96 paid the players over $500,000 and gave them the chance to get more in endorsements because of all the exposure to the general public).

Sorry, I have no interest in trying to research this one. But my quick answer would be none of the above, i.e., more than 4 times.

As you may remember, a few months ago I looked up info about your "world" championship in the 1996 ESPN World Open 9-Ball Championships, and posted the info here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4527950&postcount=112

In that event, you won 4 matches in a row to win the Men's Singles, 1 match to win the Mixed Singles, and 4 matches in a row to win the Mixed Doubles. So you won 9 matches in a row in that event. Now 9 in a row actually contains 3 in a row 7 times -- matches 1-2-3 and 2-3-4 and 3-4-5 and 4-5-6 and 5-6-7 and 6-7-8 and 7-8-9.

So, right there I have identified 7 groups of 3 in a row, meaning the correct answer is none of the choices you listed, and no further research is needed.

Now, on the other hand, some people would not call that a major tournament (despite the amount of money involved), because most of the top players were still in the PBT, which was holding their own event the same week.

 

[terryhanna]

i know C J does not play much in tournaments but he was one of the greatest big money players i ever saw and had a gear that most people can only dream about

 

[MahnaMahna]

Now, on the other hand, some people would not call that a major tournament (despite the amount of money involved), because most of the top players were still in the PBT, which was holding their own event the same week.

So why wasn't CJ at the PBT tournament?

 

[terryhanna]

So why wasn't CJ at the PBT tournament?

He was busy winning 80K on ESPN thats why lol

 

[MahnaMahna]

He was busy winning 80K on ESPN thats why lol

So why is this guy implying that all the other pros were elsewhere?

 

[AtLarge]

[/B]

Another Nice one atlarge but you fail in the world of forums once again by trying to puff up online to the point you can even start to discuss things with an actual expert.... Now if you would like to add your name.. where you play and the current APA handicap maybe you can still get there but I don't think so....

4000, 5000 or even 10000 posts won't get you there... but it's the internet so you can try and test my theory....

Please. You won't find too many posters who stick to the facts more than I. What offends you in the post you quoted? And what do you mean by "once again"?

 

[AtLarge]

Thanks for the uncomplicated answer AtLarge.....I need an aspirin after trying to decipher that post. LoL

So was "none of the above" correct (using your way of counting, let alone my odd way)?

He's not even considering 97 and 98 where I won a cumulative 6 in a row (getting to the finals in both events). There's some trivia about those two finals that are really unusual.

Because of my rather tongue-in-cheek response and way of counting, I didn't need to look further!

It's interesting to see the "die hard" pool people still trying to knock ESPN's tournaments when they did more for pool in those three years (arguably) than having $10,000,000 in commercials.....they played their tournaments thousands of hours internationally......the impact was incredible...and still, some want to act like it was "no big deal" (the tournament in 96 paid the players over $500,000 and gave them the chance to get more in endorsements because of all the exposure to the general public).

I'm not knocking the tournament. I think it made for interesting viewing, paid out a lot of money, and brought the sport to lots of people. But I imagine many "die hards" would have trouble saying it was a real world championship, because it was just 16 invited players who were not members of the PBT. And it was single elimination, which meant only 4 short matches (races to 7) for the title.

And, by my arithmetic (using the prizes listed in Billiards Digest, April 1996), the total of the prize purses for the 4 pro events ($61,000 for the men's singles event, $61,000 for the women's singles event, $59,000 for the mixed-doubles event, and $100,000 for the playoff between the men's and women's winners) was $281,000, so I don't know where you got the "over $500,000."

Edit: Since each of the 16 men and 16 women pros got an appearance fee of $1,000 for the pro-am event, you can add $32,000 to the total purse, making it $313,000.

 

[AtLarge]

So why wasn't CJ at the PBT tournament?

The ESPN event was held right between the break-away by a number of players from the men's PBT (Pro Billiards Tour) and the formation of CJ's PCA (Professional Cuesports Association).

CJ and a number of other players were dissatisfied with the direction and management of the existing tour and its leader, Don Mackey, and split from it in hopes of creating something better for the players.

 

[AtLarge]

So why is this guy implying that all the other pros were elsewhere?

A PBT event was being played at the same time in another part of California. It was won by Reyes. Others in the field included Wetch, Ellin, Rempe, Luat, Robles, Coltrain, Kennedy, Carter, Dominguez, Lebron, Mizerak, Davenport, Varner, Vickery, Archer.

This event had 32 players, with double elimination and races to either 13 or 11. But the total prize purse was only $42,000, far below what ESPN was funding 400 miles away.

 

[Luxury]

Dying to see Shane vs CJ

 

[CJ Wiley]

ESPN.......for the years 1996/97/98/99 with the PCA and WPA

A PBT event was being played at the same time in another part of California. It was won by Reyes. Others in the field included Wetch, Ellin, Rempe, Luat, Robles, Coltrain, Kennedy, Carter, Dominguez, Lebron, Mizerak, Davenport, Varner, Vickery, Archer.

This event had 32 players, with double elimination and races to either 13 or 11. But the total prize purse was only $42,000, far below what ESPN was funding 400 miles away.

The ESPN events had international players from the WPA and the American players from the PCA (sanctioning body) and WPA supplied (in conjunction) supplied the international players (Finland, Germany, England, China, Japan, etc.) and the WPBA were the sanctioning body for the women players.

Because of this event Pro Pool received tremendous exposure and averaged over a million viewers per episode. This generated millions of dollars for the players, industry, and of course ESPN.......for the years 1996/97/98/99 - I took a sabbatical in 99 and have only heard 2nd hand what happened after that.....it certainly wasn't good for whatever reason you decide to believe.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I took a sabbatical

Pro Players lives are one Sabbatical with the odd tournament thrown in for something different.

A Sabbatical is a Rest from Work. Sabbaticals are generally granted. If you were able to grant your own Sabbatical, then you weren't working in the first place.

In other words, you took a break from playing pool but it wasn't a Sabbatical.

 

[CJ Wiley]

PCA was the santioning body of Men's Professional Pool with ESPN

The ESPN event was held right between the break-away by a number of players from the men's PBT (Pro Billiards Tour) and the formation of CJ's PCA (Professional Cuesports Association).

CJ and a number of other players were dissatisfied with the direction and management of the existing tour and its leader, Don Mackey, and split from it in hopes of creating something better for the players.

This isn't correct, the ESPN event was part of our reorganization strategy. We spit the two organizations up and approximately half of the players joined the PCA (the WPA "World Pool Association" also had players that participated).

We decided it wasn't a "bad" thing for our PCA to be the sanctioning body of Men's Professional Pool with ESPN and join the WPBA to compete for over $1,200,000 the next 4 years......and get thousands of international hours for pool on ESPN.....I'd do it again, and again, and again.......anyone that doesn't think ESPN is "good for pool" is living in a fantasy world.

In our documentary on the PCA and Earl's Million Dollar Shot we outlined in much more detail how all of this happened and the other TV events we had scheduled. We came really close to getting pool on TV weekly.....then Earl ran the 11 racks for the million dollar annuity and plans quickly changed......and unfortunately we didn't recuperate from that "miracle"......sometimes miracles don't turn out positively for everyone involved.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Get your "horse" and ride it to Texas....I'll play any American player other than Shane even in Ft. Worth - 9 Ball (two shot shoot out of course)

Would you like to gamble SVB winner breaks 9-ball or 10-ball in modern standard professional rules in races to 7 getting 2/1 on the money on a neutral 9-foot diamond for $5,000+ on your end in each set?

Absolutely.....we can play 9-Ball at Buffalo Billiards in New Orleans.

Neutral Racker is Required

So you won't play Shane even in your hometown and in, supposedly your best game (2F9B), and a game he most certainly never plays.

But you'll play him even (with 2/1) in a neutral environment in one his best games.

Interesting.

 

[Celtic]

So was "none of the above" correct

Seems so.

Let us know when you get your DVD's. Hopefully CJ proves to be a little more honorable about sending what he owes then other pros have proven to be.

 

[(((Satori)))]

If you think I'm 2/1 dog against anyone in a race to 7 .....well, I want to gamble with you sir.

Everyone knows that none of these players are on this forum to defend themselves.

I believe Buddy Hall deserves to be respected and not slandered behind his back. No one came forward in 1991 or 1992 to accuse him of anything, so why now? In this country we have the right to face the accuser, and after 23 years it's just maliciousness, not "justice". I really don't know what happened that day at the Mirage in Las Vegas..... no one else knows for sure either. Maybe Buddy was threatened by the ones that made that stupid line in the first place, maybe he just didn't want to win, maybe he didn't feel well that day, maybe it was the pressure.....who knows?

Are all these "people" trying to save the Casinos from Buddy Hall all of a sudden? After 1991 Casinos and ESPN put in over $3,000,000 to support Pro Pool......this went on many, many years.....where are they at now? I will assure you it has nothing to do with Buddy or Mike why Casinos only ended up funding the 'Challenge of Champions' through the 2000-2012 time period.

This is a great post.