Changing my ways... Mike Surber's death has got me thinking... PLEASE READ!!!

[ShootingArts]

Certainly the best move when legal

the simple solution i use is to carry a gun...everywhere.

That is certainly the smartest move when it is legal. I only carry a gun or two, rarely more than three, sometimes. Folks that feel really lucky can try to guess which times. I'm happiest with a .45 if just toting a pistol but two or three of the little tiny seven shot .380's are much better to have on me than nothing.

Hu

 

[Maniac]

The murder of Mike Surber among other reasons has really got me thinking. I believe that most of us are a bit cavalier in telling others (basically strangers) about the cues, cases and other valuables that we own. Many of us list the cues (expensive or not) we own or play with as part of our profiles or in our sig lines for posts. Not like we're bragging, just telling folks what we have and use. I'm thinking maybe that ain't too smart...

In this day and age it's pretty simple to find out real names, addresses, phone numbers among other personal information. With a little more digging someone could easily find out when were home, at work, playing pool, whatever. It would be VERY easy to find out these things and exploit them.

I guess I'm just a little freaked out by Mike Surber's death even though I never met the man. I don't know if he was targeted because of a steer or was just unlucky, picked after a little social engineering. Not too different than the way we used to "hack" computers and networks back in day (way back) find out a little information, ask a few telling questions and then before you know it, you had pretty much everything you needed.

Even though my valuables are pretty safe, I think I'm going to be A LOT more protective of my information, my schedules, my hang out's, pretty much all of it. There's enough bad stuff happening to people without broadcasting to the entire freaking globe what we own, where we go, what we do and with whom.

thoughts? am I over reacting?

I don't think you are overreacting, but I don't think what you worry about is as serious for some of us as it is for others. For instance, the cues I have listed at the bottom of my posts are not of any great value as far as someone going to the trouble of looking up info on me with the intent to rob me. Like MOST of us on this site, I have much more valuable possessions in my house worth stealing than pool cues. A person could break into almost anyone's house and reap a haul of valuables worth more than my cues. Just the fact alone that I'm posting on this site tells everyone reading this that I AT LEAST have a computer that is more than likely worth more than my listed cues. What happened to Mike Surber was a random attack. It could happen to anyone on or not on this site, info or no info.

The most valuable things in my house are the human lives that abide inside it's walls. Those I will protect to my last dying breath! Anything else I have is in a VERY secure gun-safe and/or I have insured properly.

I have been the victim of theft/burglary on at least four occasions but never have been seriously threatened with a violent confrontation. I stay prepared for both.

I am a fairly private person and until you truly get to know someone/people, I suggest that others do the same.

Maniac

 

[or1pkt]

well stated. i personally prefer .40 or a .38 for most uses however the smaller pocket calibers are nice to, although legal or illegal i always pack...if i shoot someone who trys to rob me in a place im not supposed to have a gun then so be it cause id rather be judged by twelve than carried by six...

 

[ugotactionTX]

That's kinda what I was getting at...

Pool cues, though not necessarily as valuable as other household possessions, can indicate taste, and taste is usually a reflection of $$$ resources. It would not hard to deduce from someones cue collection or how much they gamble, what kind of lifestyle they have. Cars, electronics, stamp collection whatever. Believe me, I am not scared at all just in a heightened state of awareness.

I don't think you are overreacting, but I don't think what you worry about is as serious for some of us as it is for others. For instance, the cues I have listed at the bottom of my posts are not of any great value as far as someone going to the trouble of looking up info on me with the intent to rob me. Like MOST of us on this site, I have much more valuable possessions in my house worth stealing than pool cues. A person could break into almost anyone's house and reap a haul of valuables worth more than my cues. Just the fact alone that I'm posting on this site tells everyone reading this that I AT LEAST have a computer that is more than likely worth more than my listed cues. What happened to Mike Surber was a random attack. It could happen to anyone on or not on this site, info or no info.

The most valuable things in my house are the human lives that abide inside it's walls. Those I will protect to my last dying breath! Anything else I have is in a VERY secure gun-safe and/or I have insured properly.

I have been the victim of theft/burglary on at least four occasions but never have been seriously threatened with a violent confrontation. I stay prepared for both.

I am a fairly private person and until you truly get to know someone/people, I suggest that others do the same.

Maniac

 

[Nostroke]

and yet there are always people who say you should use your real name as your ID on the internet and if you dont, somehow what you say "doesn't count"

I have always thought those people were ridiculous.

 

[watchez]

I think it is a good time to discuss such matters in light of the terrible tragedy of Mike. I have often thought very much of the same things. Being in this business we sometimes use material things as a sign of prestige. We have no problems boasting about our cue collections, cases, bankrolls, and other personal objects of value. Hell, a lot of us gamble quite a bit and have no problem discussing dollar amounts, or even flashing a bankroll from time to time as a symbol of prosperous times in our gambling exhibitions. Such pecuniary things can catch the eye of a myriad of thugs and thieves in such an unstable time. I often have to remind myself that some of the things we do as pool players are taken for granted, and there are people struggling to put food on the table every single day, much less have the luxury of betting a few hundred on the next TAR match or buying the newest OB shaft.

I think we should begin to operate with a bit more caution. I thought of this same thing tonight while driving home, and decided I'm going to operate a lot differently and not disclose things to people I do not know, no matter how nice or trustworthy they may seem.

People have killed over the most minimal of things, and $1,000 dollar cues and bankrolls would be a score that would change the lives of some of these creeps (at least in their eyes for a short period of time) and be easy pickings in many a rooms across the country.

100% agree. Sometimes it is hard to operate with caution but it is usually best.

I tried to explain to another poster last week about the Red Roof Inn special for pool players and it wasn't a good idea to state where you are staying. They argued with me that I was wrong.

I had an acquaintance that I played poker with. He went over to the Casino Queen (1on1 knows this casino) to play blackjack one night. Two people followed him in their car after he left and killed him in his garage for $4200. He died right next to his kid's toys. Knowing they were robbing a child of their father still didn't stop them.

 

[vagabond]

Usually I give out information about me.I have no reason to fear because I have nothing to loose.I am a vagabond and they can`t get blood out of a Turnip


May be, I should change my attitude.I should stop giving any info about me.

 

[blah blah]

It's a painful topic, all the way around.

All of these stories hurt.

On the one hand, I feel that we are all in danger, all of the time. A guy at the nearest gas station to my house was killed about a year ago in a robbery. He only had three dollars on him. And then another young man by the poolroom was killed in a carjacking- just while he was sitting, waiting on a red light... How do you feel safe against that?

But on the other hand, I think being careful is all that we can do. Not being too flashy, braggy, opinionated, or too open and sharing... We're probably all guilty of that in one way or another. I am, I know. Freaks scare me- the ones who don't like (or like too much) what you say and come after you- as much as the thieves.

And I keep thinking about the recurring theme/ thread we get in here and in npr daring people to come out and post their true names and pictures, always with the insinuation that your word or opinion don't count if you refuse to identify yourself personally... We should try to respect each other's anonymity more.

 

[Andrew Manning]

thoughts? am I over reacting?

IMO, yes. Why would anyone stalk you over the internet to find out that you, who may turn out to live across the country, possess a lot of valuables whose value is hard to discern, and which would be almost impossible to fence, when they instead could just drive to the nearest neighborhood where rich people live, and rob them of the valuables that are conveniently located in their homes?

I believe higher risks than broadcasting your cue purchases/holdings on the internet include:
Walking around in any city wearing expensive shoes, watch, and/or coat.
Owning a home.
Parking your car on a city street.
Using an ATM in an urban setting.

In short, things many people do every single day without thinking twice. I think a non-anonymous internet presence advertising your cues effects no significant increase in the risk of robbery/violence you already run just by living your life.

-Andrew

 

[alstl]

I used to work and walk the streets daily in North St Louis. Twice this decade St Louis has been voted the most dangerous city in the United States and North St Louis is the most dangerous, crime ridden part of St Louis.

I had several rules I followed and one of them was never let anybody know I had money. If somebody asked me for money my reply was "I never carry money on me". You show a guy (or gal) you have money and 30 minutes later you might find yourself looking down the barrel of a gun.

Another rule was all strangers are hustlers. If somebody I didn't know offered to do me a favor, figure out what they really want.

Be polite and speak to everybody, even known criminals, drug dealers, whores, etc but don't trust them and never get involved in anybody's business.

It seems like common sense but you would be surprised how many people fall victim.

 

[JoeW]

Among the many things I have done in life at one time I was a Pinkerton Detective working mostly undercover in the 60s and 70s. It is much easier than people think to find you and any information about just about anyone. With the right scam your family, friends, place of employment (co-workers), trash can and many people will provide all sorts of information about you. People who work in law enforcement and with related agencies are well aware of just how easy it is to learn about a person if needed. When you know this is true then you live your life accordingly.

Someone posted a photo in the funny picture thread that said something to the effect, “Don’t worry about the dog -- worry about the man with a gun.” Good advice. My wife among others have been taught, don’t just shoot him, unload the whole damn thing in him, that way he can’t use it to shoot you.

As a forensic psychologist I have been involved with the apprehension and incarceration of hundreds of people and have worked with too many incarcerated people to even begin to estimate. The internet is a public phone book and information is easy to acquire by anyone including those who are currently incarcerated. I figure if you want the correct information get it from me and so it is on the net. It is usual for people to place their resume (or CV) on the net and these are accessible to most anyone. If anyone wants to find me it is a very easy thing to do. What you get when you find me may be another matter.

I think the real problem is the way that people interact on the net. Don’t make others angry and they have no reason to come looking. Don’t display your wealth and they have no need to desire it. I think of the internet as no different than being in the middle of a public mall, God knows who is here and why they are here. Life is too short to be paranoid – just be careful. I have many more positive interactions on the net (and in life) than negative ones and that makes it all worthwhile.

Terrorists domestic or foreign will not determine my life – but I know they are out there.

 

[JoeW]

One cute story. One time we were hired to find an underworld type of guy who was supposed to testify in a criminal case. He could not be found for about six months with all the formal public agencies and they were seriously looking for him.

My partner who was my agency mentor at the time went to the guy’s last known residence, used a scam and the landlady says, “ Oh – him, he hangs out at Johnny’s bar down on the Warf.” We drove to the bar, picked him up and had him downtown is less than one hour. Sometimes you just gotta know where to look and how to ask questions.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

and yet there are always people who say you should use your real name as your ID on the internet and if you dont, somehow what you say "doesn't count"

I have always thought those people were ridiculous.

I get this all the time.
OR, it's, "you know we all hear what your saying, but if we don't know who you are, we are gonna have a REAL hard time believing it."

I always have to laugh, cause i don't care if they believe me or not.
Contrary to what they think, there is no law that says i have to do things their way, simply to appease them.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Interesting.

In this thread that is fairly new.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=164205

After posting his full name, city and number in another thread, JADEN, is wondering who crank called him, and some people are telling him it's his fault for putting that information out there.

Not as serious as murder, but then again, who knows how far the clown doing it is willing to take it.

 

[genomachino]

Just as bad as it used to be if not worse..............

Another dynamite drop in.

Hi there everyone,


I didn't know Mike but he seemed like a really nice guy that was nice to everyone. A person can never be too careful today.

I played pool on the road for about 10 years in the late 70's and the 80's. You really had to watch what was going on back then or you would get robbed. The threat back then was mostly just getting robbed.

These people now adays that are doing drugs are really dangerous. Many of them have no regards for anyone. Just look at all the stupid things that happen in the world today. Most of the treacherous degrading crimes to people and children are done by people that are doing drugs. They just don't think right.

Not all people that are doing drugs are dangerous but a very high percentage.

After being on the road for 2 months it would take me about a week of being home to sleep real well again. I could write a 30 chapter book on real things that happened to me and people around me.

I always worried about the players in these towns that lived there. Everyone in these towns knows that these guys carry alot of money and play for money alot. I guess the term would be sitting duck. For a crook this would be perfect.

I lived in Lees Summit ,Mo in 2008, had a beautiful home and felt very secure. The city approved the lot next to me commercial construction so the vocational school across the street could build offices in the 2 lots next to my house.
I even signed the petition that approved the event.

They lied. A foot clinic,chiropractor,therapist, and about 5 other little offices were put in there that never had anything to do with the school.

So much for my secure environment. They could park in the lot and go through the pine trees that seperated the property line and break right in. They new somehow to disable the alarm system.

I got broke into twice in 6 months. First time I came home and they were in the house and got away. The second one they wrote bad things on my walls with my name involved in the words. All that was missing was vcrs,dvd players,remotes. They tried to get in my safe. Too big to carry out and they couldn't get in it. But they tried. I might of come home before they got the job done.

I'm sure they might have had guns. A few seconds here or there and my life could have ended.

I had trouble sleeping in my own house after that. I knew I was not safe there anymore.

Bottom line is all we can do is put ourselves in the safest environment we can and hope for the best. Unfortuanately the pool world with the gambling has always been a draw for bad people.

When on the road I expected to have people try to rob me because I was always in bad places trying to play for money.

Working and living in a great nieghborhood I didn't expect this. The world is changed so much over the last 30 years. You need to do everything to protect your loved ones and yourself.

When someone is playing for some money whether it be for 100 or 5,000. If there is a bad element in the area they know how much money is at stake. In fact if the bet is high maybe everyone in town knows it. Now after the match you go home to your children and wife. Many players don't even realise what kind of danger they might be putting their families in. Even the thought that someone might be planning to try to rob you is
terrible let alone them trying it and something really goes haywire and someone gets killed. Most people that try to rob people I don't think plan on killing somebody but if thier plan doesn't go right you never know what they will do. In the heat of the moment. Add some drugs and you really have a bad situation.

I think you can get the point. Pretty scary of just the thought of some of these thugs trying to figure out how to get your money. The thought of them coming into your home and doing whatever to get the cash.

Just some words of wisdom to share with everyone. Be careful and be safe.

I am a lucky man to still be walking around after all the hustling I did over the years. I've been on the road for 7 months giving lessons and playing some players. In those months I have had about 5 scary incidents. I don't know how many scary ones I didn't know about.

Watch your back everyone all the time. No matter where you are or what your doing and try to be as safe as possible.

Just imagine a gun pointed at you. A man in a ski mask and coveralls. You think you recognize the voice and are probably right. But you know if you let on that you know he will probably shoot you. You notice the hammer is cocked back on the gun and you notice the person with the gun is shaking real bad. Now you are just praying that the gun doesn't go off by accident. Your digging for your money hoping the crook doesn't get spooked and fire away. In fact your kind of happy you have some money to give him so he might not shoot you. But if you let on that yiou know who it was you might get shot.

I guess what I'm trying to say is in my travels the last 7 months I have met so many good people in this pool world. I never met Mike but I wish I would have. I'm sure we would have had some good stories to trade.

Be safe eneryone and have a good life.......................

 

[TATE]

IMO, yes. Why would anyone stalk you over the internet to find out that you, who may turn out to live across the country, possess a lot of valuables whose value is hard to discern, and which would be almost impossible to fence, when they instead could just drive to the nearest neighborhood where rich people live, and rob them of the valuables that are conveniently located in their homes?

I believe higher risks than broadcasting your cue purchases/holdings on the internet include:
Walking around in any city wearing expensive shoes, watch, and/or coat.
Owning a home.
Parking your car on a city street.
Using an ATM in an urban setting.

In short, things many people do every single day without thinking twice. I think a non-anonymous internet presence advertising your cues effects no significant increase in the risk of robbery/violence you already run just by living your life.

-Andrew

I agree with this. I think for the average person, it's more important to carefully choose who you associate with than it is to hide who you are and what you've got.

Chris