Congratulations Topeka APA National Champions

[OUSooner]

Nationals are BS. This year most of the Oklahoma teams had skill levels bumped before they started. The past three years there has been an Oklahoma team threatened every time they win too much. They were about to beat the "wrong team" and were threatened with DQ if they won. Three years ago when one of our teams did beat the wrong team they were DQ'd. I find it hilarious because when our players that have been bumped a skill level too high usually, start to beat on the sandbaggers that are rated below them our guys get threatened with the DQ.

This is what gets me. APA officials approach teams and tell them if they win this match they are going to be DQ'd. That's BS. The APA is corrupt.

Its simple as this. If you have the wrong league operator and you start to win you get bumped or DQ'd. Its simply down to how strong your league operator is with the APA. If they don't hold enough sway its pointless for you to go to Vegas.

 

[Skywlker]

Your wrong...for one the apa will never approach a team and tell them a team will get dq if they win a match...most teams should know if they have players under handicapped...the apa gives plenty of chances for you too raise players...and for a team to get dq they have to take 3 hits then it is up to the national office to throw a team out and it does help with how the apa perceives your L.O.

 

[JMuck]

Doesn't this whole APA thing remind anybody of the "Quiz Show scandals" of the fifties.

 

[SpotMonster22]

Nationals are BS. This year most of the Oklahoma teams had skill levels bumped before they started. The past three years there has been an Oklahoma team threatened every time they win too much. They were about to beat the "wrong team" and were threatened with DQ if they won. Three years ago when one of our teams did beat the wrong team they were DQ'd. I find it hilarious because when our players that have been bumped a skill level too high usually, start to beat on the sandbaggers that are rated below them our guys get threatened with the DQ.

This is what gets me. APA officials approach teams and tell them if they win this match they are going to be DQ'd. That's BS. The APA is corrupt.

Its simple as this. If you have the wrong league operator and you start to win you get bumped or DQ'd. Its simply down to how strong your league operator is with the APA. If they don't hold enough sway its pointless for you to go to Vegas.

That's interesting. In Vegas, I've played against two Oklahoma City teams. Of all our opponents, these were the only ones where I felt they were throwing games and padding innings. Both teams were also reprimanded by refs for not marking safeties.

Both teams were very nice and sportsmanlike, and I enjoyed playing them. I just chalk it up to coming from a local league culture where sandbagging is believed to be the only way to win.

It wouldn't surprise me if the APA was letting teams know that they were close to being DQ'd, although I hesitate to believe that they would say "if you win." Everyone knows the rules as far as SL raises, but since its only full level raises that put you at risk for DQ, I don't think captains can always tell if they're really at risk or not.

 

[ridinda9]

That's interesting. In Vegas, I've played against two Oklahoma City teams. Of all our opponents, these were the only ones where I felt they were throwing games and padding innings. Both teams were also reprimanded by refs for not marking safeties.

Both teams were very nice and sportsmanlike, and I enjoyed playing them. I just chalk it up to coming from a local league culture where sandbagging is believed to be the only way to win.

It wouldn't surprise me if the APA was letting teams know that they were close to being DQ'd, although I hesitate to believe that they would say "if you win." Everyone knows the rules as far as SL raises, but since its only full level raises that put you at risk for DQ, I don't think captains can always tell if they're really at risk or not.

In Vegas it's not just the mathematical skill level raises that put you at risk .
There are also uniformed "watchers" and undercover "observers" with the ability to raise your skill level at the APA's sole discretion

 

[SpotMonster22]

In Vegas it's not just the mathematical skill level raises that put you at risk .
There are also uniformed "watchers" and undercover "observers" with the ability to raise your skill level at the APA's sole discretion

Yes, just like in your local league, where the LO has the discretion to manually adjust your rating. I know that observers will do it in the middle of a game if they feel it necessary.

Not sure what you're point was here. Even if its a manual raise, they're still looking at full level raises. If you're a 4.9, and an observer undercover or otherwise raises you to a 5, that won't necessarily be counted towards a DQ.

 

[Nawlinz_Glenn]

Apa

I was trying to not get involved in this subject, but I couldn't help myself. First, EVERYONE sandbags in the APA. Second, depending on what area you are from will determine if you can get away with it. Some get disciplined more than others. I have been to Vegas every year since 2004. (Mostly for doubles) My wife has actually won a National Championship in 2007 for 9-ball doubles. I am from New Orleans, LA and we had approximately 15-20 players get moved up prior to even going to Vegas. Then some of our players got moved up while they were there. Obviously the New Orleans, La area is not in "the cliq". I am not going to accuse the Topeka , Kansas area as being the worst league area, but it is clearly obvious that they get away with A LOT of sandbagging. I am not sure what year it was,maybe 2007 or 8 there was a Topeka team that played in the finals against a New Orleans team and they were completely out of line. There 3 in the finals beat our 6 , 2 to 1 in 3 innings. When our league operator at the time asked about protesting the match the National Office said you can't protest the finals. Lastly, as far as some questions about will they say if you when you get DQ'ed. ABSOLUTELY, that happens more than people think. You just can't beat the wrong team or you will get DQ'ed. Morale to the story if you don't like it don't play, but if you play this is what you got to put up with. That is all I gotta say about that other than that congrats to the Topeka, Kansas team on winning the national championship. Good luck next year to everyone who makes it to Vegas and remember you are in Vegas enjoy it. ............NAWLINZ_GLENN

 

[mosconiac]

It sucks that this team is manipulating the system (looking at the stats I can't see how you can say they are being honest), but you sure can't expect them to feel bad about it when they're cashing big checks & rubbing it in everyone's face every year.

I'm curious if they arranged a kick-back with the LO? Otherwise, why would he be motivated to defend their obvious sandbagging and turn a blind eye?

"That's not what the computer says" LOLOLOL

 

[cookie man]

Don't think you cleared anything up.

To clear some error's in prior posts, Brian Ramirez is the only player from the 04 and 10 that is the same. Only two players from the DQ'd team were on this team. One was a 7 and the other a 4. The guy running his mouth that says he knows all of us, doesn't. At least he doesn't know me, because I have only seen him (in the pool) there a handful of times while I was there. So i guess he must be going off someone else's opinion. I have seen him watch me play one time and I lost at a state tournament. Here is something that might make you go hmmmmm. Ask him what his son's different handicap s/l's are in different leagues. He is a rated apa 7 and is rated a skill level 4 in TAP. What is that saying, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree........

 

[LeagueGuy]

I was trying to not get involved in this subject, but I couldn't help myself. First, EVERYONE sandbags in the APA. Second, depending on what area you are from will determine if you can get away with it. Some get disciplined more than others. I have been to Vegas every year since 2004. (Mostly for doubles) My wife has actually won a National Championship in 2007 for 9-ball doubles. I am from New Orleans, LA and we had approximately 15-20 players get moved up prior to even going to Vegas. Then some of our players got moved up while they were there. Obviously the New Orleans, La area is not in "the cliq". I am not going to accuse the Topeka , Kansas area as being the worst league area, but it is clearly obvious that they get away with A LOT of sandbagging. I am not sure what year it was,maybe 2007 or 8 there was a Topeka team that played in the finals against a New Orleans team and they were completely out of line. There 3 in the finals beat our 6 , 2 to 1 in 3 innings. When our league operator at the time asked about protesting the match the National Office said you can't protest the finals. Lastly, as far as some questions about will they say if you when you get DQ'ed. ABSOLUTELY, that happens more than people think. You just can't beat the wrong team or you will get DQ'ed. Morale to the story if you don't like it don't play, but if you play this is what you got to put up with. That is all I gotta say about that other than that congrats to the Topeka, Kansas team on winning the national championship. Good luck next year to everyone who makes it to Vegas and remember you are in Vegas enjoy it. ............NAWLINZ_GLENN

You are what is wrong with the APA.

You claim that you have gone to Vegas every year since 2004 and that everyone sandbags. Well the truth is most likely that in your area a few teams have figured out that to compete with a cheater they have to become one. Obviously you are a cheater and your L.O. hasn't figured it out yet.

But obviously the APA has.

If they raise most of your area players, they already realize that your area has an advantage over otjers becuase you cheat. GOOD ON THE APA FOR MAKING IT FAIR. One of the 9-ball teams from our area made it to 17th and no one on the team got raised. Most likely becuase our area has a history of people not cheaing and not sandbaging and most importantly our area plpayers shot close to their skill levels all weekend. In fact we had a decent showing in 8-ball with our 3 teams as well and only 2 players were raised becuase they shot above their skill level.

As far as I am concerned, the APA has you pegged right on the money. If only your L.O. could catch you before you won then maybe the non- cheaters could have a chance in your area.


Leagueguy

 

[Snapshot9]

Sometimes

I was trying to not get involved in this subject, but I couldn't help myself. First, EVERYONE sandbags in the APA. Second, depending on what area you are from will determine if you can get away with it. Some get disciplined more than others. I have been to Vegas every year since 2004. (Mostly for doubles) My wife has actually won a National Championship in 2007 for 9-ball doubles. I am from New Orleans, LA and we had approximately 15-20 players get moved up prior to even going to Vegas. Then some of our players got moved up while they were there. Obviously the New Orleans, La area is not in "the cliq". I am not going to accuse the Topeka , Kansas area as being the worst league area, but it is clearly obvious that they get away with A LOT of sandbagging. I am not sure what year it was,maybe 2007 or 8 there was a Topeka team that played in the finals against a New Orleans team and they were completely out of line. There 3 in the finals beat our 6 , 2 to 1 in 3 innings. When our league operator at the time asked about protesting the match the National Office said you can't protest the finals. Lastly, as far as some questions about will they say if you when you get DQ'ed. ABSOLUTELY, that happens more than people think. You just can't beat the wrong team or you will get DQ'ed. Morale to the story if you don't like it don't play, but if you play this is what you got to put up with. That is all I gotta say about that other than that congrats to the Topeka, Kansas team on winning the national championship. Good luck next year to everyone who makes it to Vegas and remember you are in Vegas enjoy it. ............NAWLINZ_GLENN

Sometimes, the answer to playing 3,4's that are underrated is to play a
'closed' game leaving clusters and breakouts to be performed later in the game since 3's and 4's usually aren't very knowledeable about the finer points of the game. A 6 should be able to cherry pick, breakout, bank, and play safes a lot better than a 3 or 4 even if they are underrated.

I frequently will go to this type of defensive game if a 3 or 4 gets to the hill and I still need quite a few games.

 

[Nawlinz_Glenn]

Leagueguy

You are what is wrong with the APA.

You claim that you have gone to Vegas every year since 2004 and that everyone sandbags. Well the truth is most likely that in your area a few teams have figured out that to compete with a cheater they have to become one. Obviously you are a cheater and your L.O. hasn't figured it out yet.

But obviously the APA has.

If they raise most of your area players, they already realize that your area has an advantage over otjers becuase you cheat. GOOD ON THE APA FOR MAKING IT FAIR. One of the 9-ball teams from our area made it to 17th and no one on the team got raised. Most likely becuase our area has a history of people not cheaing and not sandbaging and most importantly our area plpayers shot close to their skill levels all weekend. In fact we had a decent showing in 8-ball with our 3 teams as well and only 2 players were raised becuase they shot above their skill level.

As far as I am concerned, the APA has you pegged right on the money. If only your L.O. could catch you before you won then maybe the non- cheaters could have a chance in your area.


Leagueguy

Obviously you didn't read my entire post. I stated mostly doubles first of all I have only been to vegas for the team tournament once in 2004. We went 2 and out. I have been there for a lot of doubles. Cheating, Yeah I am a six and for the people on here who know me they will tell you that is more than accurate. You said my league operator should catch me before I won, I SAID MY WIFE WON. You either do not play in the APA or you are living in denial. EVERYBODY cheats! The league is designed to force you to cheat. Most of us amateur pool players play to hang with there friends have a good time and drink. However, if all of your friends play to there capability you would not be able to field a team because of the stupid f'n 23-rule. I was not on here attacking any team or any person, I congratulated them at the end of my post so I don't appreicate you attacking me. I think overall most people would agree you CANNOT win the National Championship in the APA if you don't cheat. I don't think that is an opinion more so it is a fact. Oh and by the way that is the sandbagger excuse when there players go up. "They played above there skill levels." What a joke! Let me guess they started practicing harder and in turn playing better before Vegas. LOL. Go climb back in your cave and keep believing you gonna when a National Championship without cheating. Let me know when that happens or better yet tell me you agree with me in our afterlife cause you will die trying to win this league without cheating.

 

[Skywlker]

lol not everyone cheats and btw you can protest every match including the finals all do is not sign the paperwork....and my area sends out 6 teams a year to nationals and out of 6 teams took 3 hits....and we had a ladies team win in 06 and they took 1 hit ...it is mostly the L.O. problems if they have team gets dq obviously they dont watch teams in the LTC or they dont use a Board of Governers like we do

 

[Maniac]

EVERYBODY cheats! The league is designed to force you to cheat..

Respectfully Glenn, you are WAY off base with these comments. The two APA teams that I play on (and Captain) do not cheat, PERIOD!!! That said, we don't often finish high up in the rankings either. Just last night I had a guy inquiring whether or not he could play on my 9-ball team for next session. I told him flat-out to his face "If you're a sandbagger, then we don't want you on our team".

I mean c'mon Glenn, there are SOME players/teams that have integrity. Ours is in that category.

Maniac

 

[justadub]

I was trying to not get involved in this subject, but I couldn't help myself. First, EVERYONE sandbags in the APA.....NAWLINZ_GLENN

I too was trying to stay out of this argument, but here goes... (didn't think I'd miss this, did you Maniac? )

No sir, not everyone cheats. I don't cheat. My team doesn't cheat. Most of the players in our league don't cheat. I really don't care if you believe me or not, because I can look in the mirror every morning and know the kind of character that I have, and that includes not being a cheat.

Matter of fact, I got raised an Skill Level just today, going from an SL4 to an SL5, just one week before the summer session championship, and a week and a hlaf aware from the Tri-Cup state qualifier. Could I have padded my innings some to try and avoid being raised, yup. Did I do that, nope. Because I DON'T CHEAT. (Actually kind of proud of that little fact, going to an SL5 in just under one year from picking up a cue for the first time.)

Perhaps most of those who make it to Vegas do cheat. I don't believe that. I'm sure many do, but "most" or "everybody"? All I know is that when I go, it sure won't be "everybody in Vegas cheats..."

When you lower yourself to the level other peoples lack of character, you deserve what you get. If you cheat, you deserve to play others who cheat, probably better than you. Karma is a funny thing.

Why is it so damned difficult to play by the rules? What kind of good feeling does one get when they cheat to win? It's lost on me.

 

[ridinda9]

Otherwise, why would he be motivated to defend their obvious sandbagging and turn a blind eye

Not kickbacks , but financial motivation just the same .

LOCAL TEAMGOES TO VEGAS , WINS $25,000
screams the headline . "Wow , says the barplayer ,"That could be me ! I should join !" More members = more dollars today +higher franchise sale value down the road .
Blind eye ? I'm sure their LO sees this very clearly

 

[ridinda9]

Obviously the New Orleans, La area is not in "the cliq". INAWLINZ_GLENN

Well , Glenn , maybe Nawlins isn't in the cliq" , but your neighbors to the north surely are !
Remember 2003 ? I do.

8ball Open -Pool Time Grille -Baton Rouge , LA

9Ball Open - Lumberjacks - Independence , LA


8Ball ladies 2nd place - Jr.League -Baton Rouge , LA

Not only did they almost sweep the entire event , but Pool Time Grill and the Lumberjacks were practically the same team (high player commonality) . The captain of the Ladies Jr. League was on both open teams .

My players all give a collective groan now anytime we face a LA team . . . .

 

[ridinda9]

Yes, just like in your local league, where the LO has the discretion to manually adjust your rating. I know that observers will do it in the middle of a game if they feel it necessary.

Not sure what you're point was here. Even if its a manual raise, they're still looking at full level raises. If you're a 4.9, and an observer undercover or otherwise raises you to a 5, that won't necessarily be counted towards a DQ.

The observers have full acess to your records . If they see you are a 4.9 , you will be made a 6 .

 

[SweetPea]

Perhaps most of those who make it to Vegas do cheat. I don't believe that. I'm sure many do, but "most" or "everybody"? All I know is that when I go, it sure won't be "everybody in Vegas cheats..."

My 8-ball team went to Vegas this year and I can say without a doubt, WE DO NOT CHEAT!!! I feel the same as you do, I can look myself in the mirror everyday and know, our team got there the honest way. :thumbup: My 9-ball team does not cheat either (Maniac is our captain, and he has already made that clear). We do have many teams in our league that think cheating is best, but as you can see, it didn't get them to Vegas.

 

[TCIndepMo]

In my 30 years of being an APA league operator I have found that many times the player who proclaims "everybody cheats, blah, blah, blah, etc" is really himself a cheater who recently lost to an honest player and just can't stand it.

Sad. But very telling about the player who makes such a claim.

If you think I am talking about you - there you go.

It you think I am not talking about you - there you go.