Consensus "Greatest of All Time" (GOAT) List

[evergruven]

hi dave,

for the second round I got:

efren- 4
busty- 1

I sort of alluded to it in my initial post here, but to me, longevity is a key attribute to be considered for GOAT status- who has done it better, for longer than efren?

and busty is still hangin' tough at 50+, too!

 

[dr_dave]

Today's all around greatest players, considering rotation (10 ball), straight pool, one pocket, banks and eight ball:

1a. Alex Pagulayan
1b. Dennis Orcullo
3. Shane Van Boening
4. Jason Shaw
5. Francisco Bustamante
6. Corey Deuel

20 years ago

1. Efren Reyes
2. Nick Varner
3. Mike Sigel
4. Shannon Daulton
5. Earl Strickland

If you want to make your opinions official, please vote per the instructions on the first post. You missed the first round where you could have helped get some of your chosen players into the Top 10, but you can still influence the final Top 10.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

hi dave,

for the second round I got:

efren- 4
busty- 1

I sort of alluded to it in my initial post here, but to me, longevity is a key attribute to be considered for GOAT status- who has done it better, for longer than efren?

and busty is still hangin' tough at 50+, too!

Here's the Current Top 10 GOAT List (see the first post for more info and voting instructions):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 213
2 - Earl Strickland - 118
3 - Shane Van Boening - 109
4 - Nick Varner - 100
5 - Alex Pagulayan - 95
6 - Mike Sigel - 86
7 - Buddy Hall - 51
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 51
9 - Johnny Archer - 50
10 - Wu Chia-ching - 49
11 - Dennis Ocollo - 47

NOTE - Anybody can vote in this round, even if you didn't vote in the first round.

People who have already voted in the second round (total number: 52): 9 Ball Fan, atlas333, beetle, Bob Jewett, CGM, charlietango7, Chili Palmer, Cornerman, deanoc, dontscratch, dr_dave, evergruven, follownoone, Get_A_Grip, gordml, Grilled Cheese, harleydon1950, highkarate, icucybe, jay helfert, JazzyJeff87, K2Kraze, kkdanamatt, Luxury, maha, Maniac, mark187, mattb, MattPoland, noMoreSchon, oldschool1478, parvus1202, Pete, Poolmanis, pt109, RailBanger, ricardo, Rimfirejunkie, Runnintable, Saint1500, SamShaddey, Scratch85, Sealegs50, sjharr, sjm, skogstokig, Snooker Theory, Tennesseejoe, Tooler, TX Poolnut, West Point 1987.

Thank you for participating,
Dave

PS: Remember, we're not just determining the consensus GOAT. We are also identifying the consensus Top 10 GOAT. So chose your vote points with this in mind. Voting ends on 6/30/2019, at which point the 11th spot will be dropped.

 

[MississaugaFats]

I cast my 5 for Alex the Lion :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[Sunchaser]

Efren gets 5

 

[jay helfert]

Looks like it's Efren and then everybody else. I have to agree with this, except for one thing. IMO Steve Mizerak belongs on the top ten in any list of greatest players. He beat all these guys in this prime (except Earl at 9-Ball) and even Efren would have no chance against him at 14.1. Parica also belongs on here somewhere. He only beat the world for twenty years! :wink:

 

[Maniac]

IMO Steve Mizerak belongs on the top ten in any list of greatest players. He beat all these guys in this prime (except Earl at 9-Ball) and even Efren would have no chance against him at 14.1. Parica also belongs on here somewhere. He only beat the world for twenty years! :wink:

I agree. IMO there are two players on the list that should be replaced with Mizerak and Parica.

Maniac (not sayin' which two....don't wanna be called a hater )

 

[dr_dave]

I cast my 5 for Alex the Lion :thumbup::thumbup:

Here's the Current Top 10 GOAT List (see the first post for more info and voting instructions):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 213
2 - Earl Strickland - 118
3 - Shane Van Boening - 109
4 - Nick Varner - 100
5 - Alex Pagulayan - 100
6 - Mike Sigel - 86
7 - Buddy Hall - 51
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 51
9 - Johnny Archer - 50
10 - Wu Chia-ching - 49
11 - Dennis Ocollo - 47

NOTE - Anybody can vote in this round, even if you didn't vote in the first round.

People who have already voted in the second round (total number: 59): 9 Ball Fan, AtLarge, atlas333, beetle, Bic D, Bob Jewett, CGM, Chili Palmer, Cornerman, Creedo, CrownCityCorey, deanoc, Dimeball, dontscratch, dr_dave, evergruven, follownoone, Get_A_Grip, gordml, highkarate, icucybe, JazzyJeff87, JC, jeephawk, Johnny Rosato, justadub, kkdanamatt, LeftyIke, Luxury, Magyar19, Maniac, Marc, mark187, markjames, mattb, MattPoland, megatron69, Mich, Mick, monsterdog, noMoreSchon, oldschool1478, Pete, PoloBob, PoolBum, Poolmanis, ricardo, Rico, Rimfirejunkie, SamShaddey, Scratch85, Sealegs50, sjm, Snooker Theory, spliced, Tennesseejoe, Tin Man, Tooler, TX Poolnut.

Thank you for participating,
Dave

PS: Remember, we're not just determining the consensus GOAT. We are also identifying the consensus Top 10 GOAT. So chose your vote points with this in mind. Voting ends on 6/30/2019, at which point the 11th spot will be dropped.

 

[dr_dave]

Efren gets 5

Here's the Current Top 10 GOAT List (see the first post for more info and voting instructions):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 218
2 - Earl Strickland - 118
3 - Shane Van Boening - 109
4 - Nick Varner - 100
5 - Alex Pagulayan - 100
6 - Mike Sigel - 86
7 - Buddy Hall - 51
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 51
9 - Johnny Archer - 50
10 - Wu Chia-ching - 49
11 - Dennis Ocollo - 47

NOTE - Anybody can vote in this round, even if you didn't vote in the first round.

People who have already voted in the second round (total number: 54): 9 Ball Fan, atlas333, beetle, Bob Jewett, CGM, charlietango7, Chili Palmer, Cornerman, deanoc, dontscratch, dr_dave, evergruven, follownoone, Get_A_Grip, gordml, Grilled Cheese, harleydon1950, highkarate, icucybe, jay helfert, JazzyJeff87, K2Kraze, kkdanamatt, Luxury, maha, Maniac, mark187, mattb, MattPoland, MississaugaFats, noMoreSchon, oldschool1478, parvus1202, Pete, Poolmanis, pt109, RailBanger, ricardo, Rimfirejunkie, Runnintable, Saint1500, SamShaddey, Scratch85, Sealegs50, sjharr, sjm, skogstokig, Snooker Theory, Sunchaser, Tennesseejoe, Tooler, TX Poolnut, West Point 1987.

Thank you for participating,
Dave

PS: Remember, we're not just determining the consensus GOAT. We are also identifying the consensus Top 10 GOAT. So chose your vote points with this in mind. Voting ends on 6/30/2019, at which point the 11th spot will be dropped.

 

[dr_dave]

Looks like it's Efren and then everybody else. I have to agree with this, except for one thing. IMO Steve Mizerak belongs on the top ten in any list of greatest players. He beat all these guys in this prime (except Earl at 9-Ball) and even Efren would have no chance against him at 14.1. Parica also belongs on here somewhere. He only beat the world for twenty years! :wink:

Mizerak and Parica were both in the Top 25, but neither got enough votes in the first round to put them in the running for the Top 10 in the second round of voting. For more info, see the first post.

That's too bad you and others with strong opinions didn't vote in the first round. If you had, the outcome for the Top 10 could have been different ... or not.

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

I agree. IMO there are two players on the list that should be replaced with Mizerak and Parica.

Maniac (not sayin' which two....don't wanna be called a hater )

Feel free to list the two you think should not be in the Top 10, and explain why. This might help influence how others might still vote in the remainder of the second round.

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

Here's the Current Top 10 GOAT List (see the first post for more info and voting instructions):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 218
2 - Earl Strickland - 118
3 - Shane Van Boening - 109
4 - Nick Varner - 100
5 - Alex Pagulayan - 100
6 - Mike Sigel - 86
7 - Buddy Hall - 51
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 51
9 - Johnny Archer - 50
10 - Wu Chia-ching - 49
11 - Dennis Ocollo - 47

NOTE - Anybody can vote in this round, even if you didn't vote in the first round.

People who have already voted in the second round (total number: 54): 9 Ball Fan, atlas333, beetle, Bob Jewett, CGM, charlietango7, Chili Palmer, Cornerman, deanoc, dontscratch, dr_dave, evergruven, follownoone, Get_A_Grip, gordml, Grilled Cheese, harleydon1950, highkarate, icucybe, jay helfert, JazzyJeff87, K2Kraze, kkdanamatt, Luxury, maha, Maniac, mark187, mattb, MattPoland, MississaugaFats, noMoreSchon, oldschool1478, parvus1202, Pete, Poolmanis, pt109, RailBanger, ricardo, Rimfirejunkie, Runnintable, Saint1500, SamShaddey, Scratch85, Sealegs50, sjharr, sjm, skogstokig, Snooker Theory, Sunchaser, Tennesseejoe, Tooler, TX Poolnut, West Point 1987.

Remember, we are not just determining the consensus GOAT. We are also identifying the consensus Top 10 GOAT. So chose your vote points with this in mind. Voting ends on 6/30/2019, at which point the 11th spot will be dropped.

 

[dr_dave]

Let's get some more votes! Any of the players in spots 7-11 can easily be bumped off the Top 10 list if the other players in that range are given points. It would also be nice if we can break the tie for 4th and 5th places.

Here's the Current Top 10 GOAT List (see the first post for more info and voting instructions):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 218
2 - Earl Strickland - 118
3 - Shane Van Boening - 109
4 - Nick Varner - 100
5 - Alex Pagulayan - 100
6 - Mike Sigel - 86
7 - Buddy Hall - 51
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 51
9 - Johnny Archer - 50
10 - Wu Chia-ching - 49
11 - Dennis Ocollo - 47

NOTE - Anybody can vote in this round, even if you didn't vote in the first round.

People who have already voted in the second round (total number: 54): 9 Ball Fan, atlas333, beetle, Bob Jewett, CGM, charlietango7, Chili Palmer, Cornerman, deanoc, dontscratch, dr_dave, evergruven, follownoone, Get_A_Grip, gordml, Grilled Cheese, harleydon1950, highkarate, icucybe, jay helfert, JazzyJeff87, K2Kraze, kkdanamatt, Luxury, maha, Maniac, mark187, mattb, MattPoland, MississaugaFats, noMoreSchon, oldschool1478, parvus1202, Pete, Poolmanis, pt109, RailBanger, ricardo, Rimfirejunkie, Runnintable, Saint1500, SamShaddey, Scratch85, Sealegs50, sjharr, sjm, skogstokig, Snooker Theory, Sunchaser, Tennesseejoe, Tooler, TX Poolnut, West Point 1987.

 

[jay helfert]

Mizerak and Parica were both in the Top 25, but neither got enough votes in the first round to put them in the running for the Top 10 in the second round of voting. For more info, see the first post.

That's too bad you and others with strong opinions didn't vote in the first round. If you had, the outcome for the Top 10 could have been different ... or not.

Regards,
Dave

No problem Dave. ALL thse guys in the top ten (or eleven) are great players and I don't know who I would bump from that list if I could. Maybe they might just move down a notch or two to make room for the Mighty Miz and the GREAT Parica. As for me and my personal opinion (I saw all these guys play a lot!), there is no one I would put above Jose Parica. He is one of the two or three best players I've seen play in my lifetime. IMO in his prime even Shane would have had trouble against him in a big Ten Ball money match. If they played alternate break I would bet the ranch on Jose. Bottom line, he was the best money player I ever saw. NO ONE could beat him!

As for Steve, he knew more and had a bigger game than anyone in his prime. Even the great Sigel struggled to beat him at any game. Buddy was the only other player who could keep up with him until Earl came along. But Earl could only win at 9-Ball. He had no chance at 14.1 or One Pocket with him. Steve had the most powerful and the most delicate stroke at the same time. He was not a money player and that puts him behind Parica and Buddy in my mind.

 

[PoolBum]

Looks like it's Efren and then everybody else. I have to agree with this...

As for me and my personal opinion (I saw all these guys play a lot!), there is no one I would put above Jose Parica. He is one of the two or three best players I've seen play in my lifetime.

So who's at the top of your list for this era Jay, Efren or Jose?

And who are the other one or two players you think are the best you've seen play in your lifetime? Harold Worst?

 

[9 Ball Fan]

It's worth mentioning that some otherwise excellent players, were unfortunately playing while one or more of the top 5 greatest players of all time was ripping tournament win after tournament win; making it very difficult for other excellent players to stand out and distinguish themselves.

Perhaps they were the 2nd best player of their era, but there was another buzzsaw of a player competing in the same big tournaments.

Easy to get overshadowed by Efren, Earl, etc.

 

[mark187]

It's worth mentioning that some otherwise excellent players, were unfortunately playing while one or more of the top 5 greatest players of all time was ripping tournament win after tournament win; making it very difficult for other excellent players to stand out and distinguish themselves.

Perhaps they were the 2nd best player of their era, but there was another buzzsaw of a player competing in the same big tournaments.

Easy to get overshadowed by Efren, Earl, etc.

Not sure about that. Lots of Efren/Earl contemporaries on the list.

 

[dr_dave]

Let's get some more votes! Any of the players in spots 7-11 can easily be bumped off the Top 10 list if the other players in that range are given points. It would also be nice if we can break the tie for 4th and 5th places.

Here's the Current Top 10 GOAT List (see the first post for more info and voting instructions):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 218
2 - Earl Strickland - 118
3 - Shane Van Boening - 109
4 - Nick Varner - 100
5 - Alex Pagulayan - 100
6 - Mike Sigel - 86
7 - Buddy Hall - 51
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 51
9 - Johnny Archer - 50
10 - Wu Chia-ching - 49
11 - Dennis Ocollo - 47

NOTE - Anybody can vote in this round, even if you didn't vote in the first round.

People who have already voted in the second round (total number: 54): 9 Ball Fan, atlas333, beetle, Bob Jewett, CGM, charlietango7, Chili Palmer, Cornerman, deanoc, dontscratch, dr_dave, evergruven, follownoone, Get_A_Grip, gordml, Grilled Cheese, harleydon1950, highkarate, icucybe, jay helfert, JazzyJeff87, K2Kraze, kkdanamatt, Luxury, maha, Maniac, mark187, mattb, MattPoland, MississaugaFats, noMoreSchon, oldschool1478, parvus1202, Pete, Poolmanis, pt109, RailBanger, ricardo, Rimfirejunkie, Runnintable, Saint1500, SamShaddey, Scratch85, Sealegs50, sjharr, sjm, skogstokig, Snooker Theory, Sunchaser, Tennesseejoe, Tooler, TX Poolnut, West Point 1987.

Mizerak and Parica were both in the Top 25, but neither got enough votes in the first round to put them in the running for the Top 10 in the second round of voting. For more info, see the first post.

That's too bad you and others with strong opinions didn't vote in the first round. If you had, the outcome for the Top 10 could have been different ... or not.

Regards,
Dave

No problem Dave. ALL these guys in the top ten (or eleven) are great players and I don't know who I would bump from that list if I could. Maybe they might just move down a notch or two to make room for the Mighty Miz and the GREAT Parica.

Jay,

Whoever is at the bottom of the list at the end of the voting (6/30/2019) will be dropped (to trim the list from 11 to 10). The only way to add Miz or Parica would be to invent a time machine, get a bunch of people together that agree with you, and go back in time to vote in the first round. Miz and Parica were on the initial Top 25 list, but they did not get enough first-round votes to put them in contention for the final Top 10 list that we are voting on in the second round.

If you or others want more info about the selection process, it is documented in the first post of this thread.

Regards,
Dave

 

[flyvirginiaguy]

When big money was on the line, who was beating Efren in his prime?

Mike Sigel


Sigel 5

 

[dr_dave]

When big money was on the line, who was beating Efren in his prime?

Mike Sigel

Please make your opinion official by placing a vote (e.g., "Sigel 5") per the info in the first post.

Regards,
Dave