dave sutton
Banned
i think if your tolerances are tight just about any glue will be ok
coring & gluing
- Thread starter BHQ
- Start date
I don't think anyone so far has stated that poly doesn't work or is no good.
(maybe in the past but I don't remember)
I have some of the same feelings as others on which is better for my application. As I mentioned previously, I don't believe all epoxies are created equal. I know it's very popular in the building circle but I do not use any West System products for any of my applications. Again, not saying it isn't any good or that it won't work (for some apps)....I just don't use their products.
With that said.........if the proper technique were implemented, even the West may be usable for a core glue....never did any testing with.
I have glued a core in using Titebond though and was pleased with the end result but because of the close tolerances you can't take the time to even fart when assembling the two parts together because if you do your going to be in trouble. Epoxy and poly are a little more forgiving in that dept.
I do believe it is as much about technique as it is the glue being used.
Just like all aspects of the construction process.....10 different builders will tell you 11 different ways that are the best.
(maybe in the past but I don't remember)
I have some of the same feelings as others on which is better for my application. As I mentioned previously, I don't believe all epoxies are created equal. I know it's very popular in the building circle but I do not use any West System products for any of my applications. Again, not saying it isn't any good or that it won't work (for some apps)....I just don't use their products.
With that said.........if the proper technique were implemented, even the West may be usable for a core glue....never did any testing with.
I have glued a core in using Titebond though and was pleased with the end result but because of the close tolerances you can't take the time to even fart when assembling the two parts together because if you do your going to be in trouble. Epoxy and poly are a little more forgiving in that dept.
I do believe it is as much about technique as it is the glue being used.
Just like all aspects of the construction process.....10 different builders will tell you 11 different ways that are the best.
BarenbruggeCues said:
Ta, Tap, Tap.
hmmm, one button double post, Must be Sunday.
in this day and age with all of the adhesives that are out there for us all to use, i honestly don't think the glue/epoxy whatever makes any difference*
*providing that it, whatever glue or epoxy is used is applied properly
unless that cue is to be cut apart and inspected with a microscope ,
BUT, for argument sake here, let's say that particular example is screwed up with gaps , flaws, so forth
who is to say that the next speciman wont be perfect even though the same exact procedure and glue is used
i'm not arguing with anyone about glues, i'm just saying that shit happens, things beyond OUR control
you could do 5 cues identical and you know damn well as i do, that they will not be identical in hit, feel, etc.
*providing that it, whatever glue or epoxy is used is applied properly
unless that cue is to be cut apart and inspected with a microscope ,
BUT, for argument sake here, let's say that particular example is screwed up with gaps , flaws, so forth
who is to say that the next speciman wont be perfect even though the same exact procedure and glue is used
i'm not arguing with anyone about glues, i'm just saying that shit happens, things beyond OUR control
you could do 5 cues identical and you know damn well as i do, that they will not be identical in hit, feel, etc.
dave sutton
Banned
i dont use any west systems either. i use the atlas slow cure 30 min poxy. 20 min finish epoxy, and 5 min epoxy for ferrules. i love the results i get.
I glued up 5 full splice cues in a little over a week and I used West System for them all. I have used Gorilla Glue on all the forearms I have cored in recent years. I have see full splice cues glued with Elmers wood glue and held up fine. In 20 years or so I can let you know how well the West System held up for the Full Splice cues I just glued up, and I can let you know if the Gorilla Glue cores held up. Be sure and remind me to post the results.
I think the actual question was more about what size to make the dowel, and in answer to that, I believe it depends on the type of glue used. Most slow cure epoxies are thin, and will lube the dowel as you insert it, but if using something like titebond 1 or 2....extra clearance is needed, IMO. I tried it once and needed a hammer to force the dowel thru after about halfway, as the 'gripping' power of titebond took over. I use elmer's poly, and it works good, and the clearance of the dowel is a little tighter than if using titebond, but a little looser than epoxy. If it's to tight, too much glue/epoxy will be squeezed out.
I currently am using a .680 drill, and make the dowel approx. .675-.678, I test fit until it goes well.
I do agree with the statement about the wood absorbing the epoxy, as depending on the type of wood, it can suck a lot in and not leave much if any on the surfaces of the core. I just epoxy coated some redwood burl, and had to recoat about 4 times to get a consistant coating on it as it keep absorbing the epoxy, making it look very dull, but only in the softspots of the wood.
Dave
I currently am using a .680 drill, and make the dowel approx. .675-.678, I test fit until it goes well.
I do agree with the statement about the wood absorbing the epoxy, as depending on the type of wood, it can suck a lot in and not leave much if any on the surfaces of the core. I just epoxy coated some redwood burl, and had to recoat about 4 times to get a consistant coating on it as it keep absorbing the epoxy, making it look very dull, but only in the softspots of the wood.
Dave
are the gorilla fans saying that the epoxy will absorb into the cue saying that if you get the dowell and the sleeve both completely coated in epoxy that one of them will suck all the epoxy off part of the other and leave a dry spot on the wood?
does that go for the a-joint,joint pin,butt sleeves and collars as well?
does that go for the a-joint,joint pin,butt sleeves and collars as well?
dave sutton
Banned
masonh said:
i thought the same thing. i core and epoxy every buttsleeve. most do the same. no one is scared of that falling off or coming loose.
how about core then coat of epoxy to seal. let it dry recut it clean then epoxt dowel in. little extra work but should stop this so called absorption
Last edited:
I have a footnote on my calendar for 2028...........cueman said:
There's no such thing as a little extra to do some jobs right!
What do they use on boats and planes?masonh said:
Part I.-
Does anyone have a spec sheet for the Atlas epoxy 20 and 30 minute drying or is it speculation and assumption that if Atlas sells it, It must be good. The two above don't seem to be system III. Just curious what the actual bonding strength is?
How much do you actually think it's penetrating and or bonding if it dries that quick?
Part II.-
Does anyone core today and turn the wood today? If the answer is no, you already know where I'm going with this.
Part III.-
West system, System III and gorilla glue might seem dry to the touch today but is it cured because it's dry to the touch?
Part IV.-
For those just using drills not gun drills, Do you use a reamer after that?
A- Right after drilling?
B- After the wood cools?
C-Tomorrow?
D-No Reamer needed.
Part V.-
For those using gun drills.
A- Do you step drill it first?
B- WHY?
C- For those who don't, WHY NOT?
No answers needed, just wanted to give you all something to think about. We all don't follow the same path but how many paths are there, Did you research or did you go by what someone else said to do.
* DON"T ANSWER, JUST THINK.*
Does anyone have a spec sheet for the Atlas epoxy 20 and 30 minute drying or is it speculation and assumption that if Atlas sells it, It must be good. The two above don't seem to be system III. Just curious what the actual bonding strength is?
How much do you actually think it's penetrating and or bonding if it dries that quick?
Part II.-
Does anyone core today and turn the wood today? If the answer is no, you already know where I'm going with this.
Part III.-
West system, System III and gorilla glue might seem dry to the touch today but is it cured because it's dry to the touch?
Part IV.-
For those just using drills not gun drills, Do you use a reamer after that?
A- Right after drilling?
B- After the wood cools?
C-Tomorrow?
D-No Reamer needed.
Part V.-
For those using gun drills.
A- Do you step drill it first?
B- WHY?
C- For those who don't, WHY NOT?
No answers needed, just wanted to give you all something to think about. We all don't follow the same path but how many paths are there, Did you research or did you go by what someone else said to do.
* DON"T ANSWER, JUST THINK.*
Last edited:
dave sutton
Banned
JoeyInCali said:
interesting find joey. so basically to sum it up the slow cure and west system have little if any difference in bonding wood (plywood) looking at the numbers given the slow cures breaking point was a hair better then west system. both were only half as good ad aeropoxy.
hope that answers anyones question. i guess now we all should switching to aeropoxy to do our Ajoints.
next test should be what force it takes to rip apart an ajoint of a cue. i bet if far more then any two humans can exert at one time
how about core then coat of epoxy to seal. let it dry recut it clean then epoxt dowel in. little extra work but should stop this so called absorptiondave sutton said:
BINGO
that's what i did with a lyptus core
more porous than maple, so i figured i would seal it first
after all epoxy does stick to expoxy
So many adhesives...
There are so many adhesive choices today that were not available in the past. I, for one, am very thankful to all here on AZB for their knowledge and opinions. I guess it all comes down to what works best for each individual at any particular given time. Thank you all for your insights and opinions!
There are so many adhesive choices today that were not available in the past. I, for one, am very thankful to all here on AZB for their knowledge and opinions. I guess it all comes down to what works best for each individual at any particular given time. Thank you all for your insights and opinions!
Question about how you guys are using the poly glue.
Are you guys using water on the coring dowel at all or just using the glue straight from the bottle?
The poly glue needs moisture in the mix to respond and work accordingly. I'm not sure if 6% moisture content of wood is enough for the glue to react and reach it's full cure.
Regards,
Frank
Are you guys using water on the coring dowel at all or just using the glue straight from the bottle?
The poly glue needs moisture in the mix to respond and work accordingly. I'm not sure if 6% moisture content of wood is enough for the glue to react and reach it's full cure.
Regards,
Frank
I had the exact same results. I have tried the vaccum method to draw the epoxy thru the assembly and it worked pretty much the same. I had the best results with the epoxy when I loosened up the clearence and used the core as a ram with the tube held vertically. I would pour epoxy down in the tube and push the core down into it and it forces the epoxy up and out the top filling the assembly completely. I did that only as an expirement and it is not a good method. The clearance was way too loose. I have found the poly glue to work fantastic with the right clearence. Chrisqbilder said: