Could This Debacle Kill the Mosconi Cup

US + UK vs Europe (now that UK is not part of Europe)
That'd be close.

* a part of the European Union. Still a part of the continent though. Would make an interesting match though :)

I cant understand how the crowd can behave as classless like this. Bloody shouting and howling like retarded coyotes all the time :angry: How can it be so hard for pool to be played and watched with manners like Snooker where the crowd appreciates a good shot but also can behave like adults, giving the players a chance to play their best :confused:
 
So, the rest of the world finally learned the American game well enough to beat us at it.

Congrats to them.

Now it's time to play a different game.
 
So, the rest of the world finally learned the American game well enough to beat us at it.

Congrats to them.

Now it's time to play a different game.

Europe vs. the USA in baseball?

Sorry...I'm not ready to give up on the USA just yet. Hey, the Cubs won the world series by not giving up.
 
Matchroom moved their production to the largest arena in the history of the event.

They're selling out a 2,000 seat arena each day.

Even though we're getting devoured each year, the MC of late has turned into an annual holiday party and fat paycheck for team Euro.

What am I missing, how is this event struggling?
 
Great question!

Matchroom moved their production to the largest arena in the history of the event.

They're selling out a 2,000 seat arena each day.

Even though we're getting devoured each year, the MC of late has turned into an annual holiday party and fat paycheck for team Euro.

What am I missing, how is this event struggling?

Sold out arenas, rabbit fans, the whole world hates the USA and loves to see the USA take a beating, whats not to like?
 
Competition is what drives sport. Clearly, there isn't any of this happening in London. Do you think the future of the Mosconi Cup is in question? Who wants to watch one side kill the other year after year. The sport could lose this important event if this wipe out every year continues and I see no reason for it not to. Pool is dead in America and we simply cannot compete against the Europeans. We will not be able to develop any world class players in the future since all we play on is 7 foot bar tables.

It occurs to me that this could be the final or nearly final Mosconi Cup.

The winning side. ^^^

Keith
 
I think this Mosconi Cup is going as designed. The worse we get beat the better the numbers get. I love to see my teams blowout other supposed good teams in every other sport, this is likely no difference for the Europeans. They'd probably be happiest winning 11-0 and the prize money might even go up from there. This thing isn't designed with Americans as the primary audience best I can tell.
 
I think this Mosconi Cup is going as designed. The worse we get beat the better the numbers get. I love to see my teams blowout other supposed good teams in every other sport, this is likely no difference for the Europeans. They'd probably be happiest winning 11-0 and the prize money might even go up from there. This thing isn't designed with Americans as the primary audience best I can tell.

Agreed. Makes me wonder if ticket sales will decrease for 2017 MC in Vegas, will the Americans lose faith in their team and just stay home, or will 1,000 Europeans fly to Vegas to fill the seats and watch a good beating? I was at Tropicana last year and even though there were more Americans in the arena, Europe's presence was definitely felt and it seemed as if we were outnumbered. My girlfriend even asked me why are there more Europeans here in Vegas rather than Americans.
 
I see alot of people blaming players, fans, etc. But when, i say when have so many people in attendance or on tv cared this much about pool.

Just think if we could find a way to keep it going for more than one event per year!
 
I understand your position and I don't disagree completely but..., Do we all believe that we cant win a race to 5!!!!! This is not the insane races to 100 that everybody on this form thinks you have win to prove your the best. Its not even a Professional level race to 9 or 11, its a amateurish race to 5!!! Anybody can win a race to 5 against anybody, right? That's whats always stated, that the short race favors the weaker player..., so are the Europeans the weaker players or is the short race argument BS?

neither, only the saying should be changed to something like "anybody can win a rt 5 vs a american"
 
needs other nations, Taiwan, China, Phillipines to start, move to smaller teams if you need to to accomodate production time



shaw and appleton playing for europe irks me when they not only reside in the usa but also benefit from so many things american

ever been to scotland? ask the scotts if they consider themselves "european", lol

with the above allowances its a shame they couldnt allow Alex on team usa, the talent level on the team just blows, bunch of misfits way of their league outside of Shane of course against world beaters

team usa coach with good intentions is also just plain bad
 
So, the rest of the world finally learned the American game well enough to beat us at it.

Congrats to them.

Now it's time to play a different game.

:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:

Just one game, though. There's still one-pocket, banks, et cetera, left on the table. [Pun intended]. :grin-square:
 
needs other nations, Taiwan, China, Phillipines to start, move to smaller teams if you need to to accomodate production time



shaw and appleton playing for europe irks me when they not only reside in the usa but also benefit from so many things american

ever been to scotland? ask the scotts if they consider themselves "european", lol

with the above allowances its a shame they couldnt allow Alex on team usa, the talent level on the team just blows, bunch of misfits way of their league outside of Shane of course against world beaters

team usa coach with good intentions is also just plain bad

A small note off this is that many Olympic athletes live and train in America and then go pay for their perspective country.
(One example comes to mind is basketball) Dirk Nowitzki (Germany), the Gasol brothers (Spain), Ginobli (Argentina) etc all play in the NBA and live in America, but come Olympic time, play for their homeland.

USA has quite the tradition of international athletes coming here for training, coaching, and competition in other sports.
 
I like Justin, but he said something on his American Billiard Radio interview a few weeks ago that shocked me. He said "I'm not used to practicing my break."

I don't know the practice habits of the Euros, but that statement just seems unprofessional to me. How can we compete if our pro players have anything less than a world class work ethic?

I really like Justin too, but I agree with you 100%. Players from the United States (except Shane) are great players, but the Europeans treat their play as a profession.

To me, this is why the coach doesn't matter all that much. I really like Mark Wilson, and I hope he gets to continue, as I cannot blame him if all the players on the American team choose to spend their year not practicing the Mosconi Cup break when they CLEARLY need the practice. What is Mark supposed to do to them? Kick them off the team? He does not have the power to kick three people off? I am not sure if he can select a player and then boot them if they are a knucklehead either.

The Americans are getting killed in the break shot, and it is a shot they KNOW they will shoot. There is no excuse for this.

kollegedave
 
I'm an amateur history buff, so a big factor I take into account when thinking about questions like this is context.

The Mosconi Cup has already shifted from its original purpose once. When originally created, the Mosconi Cup was designed to be an exhibition match similar to the Ryder Cup to introduce the European public to pool and the American stars, while also giving screen time to the Euros best billiards players, who also happened to be mostly snooker players.

Since those early days when America ran roughshod over the likes of O'Sullivan, White, and Davis, the Cup blossomed into a rivalry event. For a decade between 2000 and 2010, the west was treated to some highly compelling displays of pool and we watched Europe grow and get stronger. 9 ball pool took off, and with it other forms of pool as well became popular.

Then things began to go downhill. In 2011 and 2012 there were whispers and glimpses of Americans losing an edge, but excitement from 2009 was still high, and 2012 was especially close finishing at 11-9. All seemed well, until the next year. 2013, a year that will live in infamy (sorry, couldn't help it) was a three day stretch where five of Americas greatest legends in pool that had pounded Europe for much of the last decade got shellacked. America had lost cups before, but to lose 12-2, in Vegas, on the 20th anniversary of the cup? That was too much for a lot of people to take. Rumors and conspiracies began to fly that someone or a group of someones had fixed the event. Accusations were rampant, and while little was said publicly by anyone involved in that Cup, the landscape was already shifting under America's feet.

That Cup was a microcosm of the current state of pool in the US, and a glimpse into the future as a warning. Europe now had teeth, and American legends were losing ground. Many of them had been in so many cups, there was a question of who would replace them. To make matters worse, the hints of scandal never went away. Finger pointing and knee jerk reactions on the part of America and its players both professional and amateur began to become a regular part of the discussion. The landscape began to bring in new faces and people who had been successful in pool for years, but never to the level of an Archer or a Strickland. These were people like Mike Dechaine, Brandon Shuff, Justin Bergman, Skyler Woodward, and a few hold overs remained such as Shane Van Boening, Dennis Hatch, and Corey Deuel. In an attempt to find ethical leadership and experience, players like John Schmidt were included on teams to be emotional anchors, with some players like Rodney Morris being deemed too unstable and unpredictable to continue to serve as mentors for young players.

After 2013, the losses continued to mount, the gap in play grew wider, and the fun began to be sucked out of the MC for Americans. They were like a lion who has grown older and long in the tooth, watching another young lion come in and take away their territory and prestige. To make matters worse for the old lion, its own cubs were trying to come up in their own way, but the newcomers looked at and played the game differently than the graybeards, for better or worse. Ultimately, it has continued to be proven that either due to needing more time on the bigger stages of pool or simply due to a change in expectations for playing pool in America, its youngest and brightest stars have talent and confidence, but still are not ready to seriously challenge the best from around the globe in the new pool world their forebears helped create.

So, where does this leave America, the Mosconi Cup, and pool? Rest assured, the Mosconi Cup is far from done as long as the fans continue to show and the sponsors make money. Also, pool is far from dead and has more top quality players around the globe than at any other time in the game's history. And that trend shows no sign of slowing down. So what is over? To be frank, America's dominance of the game is over. We worked for years to spread the game we love, to build the field, sow the seeds for the love of our game, and build it into a world wide phenomenon. By doing so, we created the eventual generations that would dethrone us and take the game over, which we are currently seeing right before our eyes. America has fallen down a few pegs on the pool ladder.

This does not mean America is finished forever in pool, doomed to only have it has an amateur past time and hobby. What it does mean is America has a choice to make, collectively, both for non player and player alike. Either we embrace our new position in this sport and begin our steady climb back up the mountain through dedication, hard work, and a commitment to the game of pool the way that other countries have in the new pool world, or we will continue to slide down into oblivion until the day people begin to make a conscious effort to rebuild the game in America. It all depends how long we want the road back to be and how uphill.
 
American pool took a major nose dive when the BCA took a step backwards and became nothing more than a figurehead marketing organization. No nationally sanctioned pro tour, no club system... Just APA, NAPA, BCA and whatever other half dozen or so social leagues there are, with Las Vegas 7' bar box tourneys as final prize. It's kind of a joke compared to what the Europeans have.

The only way I think American pool will ever be taken seriously on the world stage again is if a sanctioned national league emerges that focuses on pool as a serious SPORT, not just promoting a fun social past time (or gambling big-pecker contests) for adults.

We have some of the best "social" leagues where players try to be once-a-week pool heroes (none of which use all-ball-foul rules) but the European countries have the best nationally sanctioned leagues in the world based on private local clubs (which members must pay to belong) which in turn also encourages players from all age groups to participate and develop. All of those leagues use all-ball-foul, serious type rules.

It starts from the ground up. Play sloppy from the ground up, you get sloppy results.

When was the last time you saw an elementary school aged kid learning how to play pool in an American pool hall? Would you even take your kid to the pool hall you frequent?

Here is a write up of my experience with German pool leagues in the late 80's, and I understand their league system remains virtually unchanged today: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=343498
 
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The winning side. ^^^

Keith

Given that this isn't even televised live in the U.S., I'd imagine they're mostly concerned with ratings in the U.K. and Europe where it's on cable/satellite television. Are the European fans put off by watching their boys trample all over the U.S.? I'd guess that they probably revel in it, and I'm sure that Matchroom and Co. are closely tracking those numbers.
 
Matchroom moved their production to the largest arena in the history of the event.

They're selling out a 2,000 seat arena each day.

Even though we're getting devoured each year, the MC of late has turned into an annual holiday party and fat paycheck for team Euro.

What am I missing, how is this event struggling?

I agree with you. We had pool league last night, and a number of casual players were googling dates for next year in Vegas and talking about plans to make the trip... I see no evidence interest is waning...
 
ok that's just idiotic...

Europe against the World. Except there's no Americans that would qualify.

Shane has been the top qualifying player for the mosconi cup of anyone in the world, let alone just north america...lol

That aside, he needs to do something about his mosconi cup play because it isn't his usual level of play.. He must've found a girlfriend in London...

Jaden
 
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