ElCorazonFrio
Banned
Really? Guy says something finally and the usual suspects come out to hold a parade. He hasn't even actually done anything yet.
could whoever been ripped off by showman cues post here
- Thread starter merylane
- Start date
Really? Guy says something finally and the usual suspects come out to hold a parade. He hasn't even actually done anything yet.
... feels compelled to finish the project ....?
hmmm, after only a year. I wonder how compelled he'd be if you hadn't posted the thread and why is it that took the subtlety of what amounted to being bashed over the head with a cue butt to compel him.
I really hope it works out for you and I hope Mr. Showman is past any difficulties he may have been having.
...I do have my doubts, though
hmmm, after only a year. I wonder how compelled he'd be if you hadn't posted the thread and why is it that took the subtlety of what amounted to being bashed over the head with a cue butt to compel him.
I really hope it works out for you and I hope Mr. Showman is past any difficulties he may have been having.
...I do have my doubts, though
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
Actually, yeah, it kinda is. There were agreements made, one side didn't live up to them.
Then he kept property and money when asked to return it on grounds of breach of contract.
NYC cue dude
Banned
At what point does it become theft in your eyes? Obviously being deprived for a year or more of his property, worth in excess of $7K doesn't meet your standard. And without this thread, a resolution wasn't ever forthcoming. Or perhaps Mike should've just taken Showman at his word, that at some unspecified date in the future he would return it?
As consumers, we can't enable this despicable behavior.
John Showman finally showed up........and has the spine to face his accusers.........long overdue but way to go John...........
Let's not dredge up all the details of every complaint........simply post and say you sent John the details and mention the date and time........come back and let us know the problem is being worked on and then when resolved, come back again and let us know how things turned out......were you ultimately made happy......did you get your cue back........really, that's all that matters.
As far as John Showman, any of us can have our worlds turned upside down and shaken vigorously. Sometimes it takes a long time for things to settle down where you can regain control over your life and when you do get control again, all too often your life has permanently changed as a result of it.
We're not entitled to know what caused John to have issues with his customers......only his customers deserve to know any details........the only thing that matters is that John is willing, interested and prepared to make things right with his clients........you can't change history but you can pay more attention to the current state of affairs which John appears to be doing.
Mr. Showman, the fact that you are attempting to restore your reputation on the Forum impresses me a lot and I've admired your cue-making for years.....if it wasn't for California's pending AB-96 legislation, I'd be willing to trust you with my wallet if you do the right thing with your clients that have a gripe with you......it takes a big man to ask people to post their complaints for all to see.....again, not necessary......just want to see posts from your accusers saying things are now okay.....that's all that matters.
Matt B.
p.s. Mike, I think you have a gorgeous Showman cue........it's exactly the type Showman design I would want.
Let's not dredge up all the details of every complaint........simply post and say you sent John the details and mention the date and time........come back and let us know the problem is being worked on and then when resolved, come back again and let us know how things turned out......were you ultimately made happy......did you get your cue back........really, that's all that matters.
As far as John Showman, any of us can have our worlds turned upside down and shaken vigorously. Sometimes it takes a long time for things to settle down where you can regain control over your life and when you do get control again, all too often your life has permanently changed as a result of it.
We're not entitled to know what caused John to have issues with his customers......only his customers deserve to know any details........the only thing that matters is that John is willing, interested and prepared to make things right with his clients........you can't change history but you can pay more attention to the current state of affairs which John appears to be doing.
Mr. Showman, the fact that you are attempting to restore your reputation on the Forum impresses me a lot and I've admired your cue-making for years.....if it wasn't for California's pending AB-96 legislation, I'd be willing to trust you with my wallet if you do the right thing with your clients that have a gripe with you......it takes a big man to ask people to post their complaints for all to see.....again, not necessary......just want to see posts from your accusers saying things are now okay.....that's all that matters.
Matt B.
p.s. Mike, I think you have a gorgeous Showman cue........it's exactly the type Showman design I would want.
Agreed actions speak louder than words.
Thats why, this action of the phone call and the action of a detailed explanation is a BIG step in my opinion.
My post was, my way of saying and acknowledging Mike's kindness and good deed to extend Mr. Showman a extension. Despite, the ordeal he experienced for roughly a year. Even after all that, he has sympathy for whatever phlight Mr. Showman finds himself in. The tone of his post and the sincere nature of the wording was what caught my attention and warranted my response.
I was in no way rolling out the red carpet for this type of behavior in the pool industry.
KD
i dont think he is a thief just a bad business person who lies to keep his customers from bugging him. so now everyone knows he takes as long as he wants to finish and you have to wait .
to restore his reputation he just has to tell his customers all orders are done whenever he feels like it and that can take months to years. and not lie to them about it. then its on the customer to make the decision to use him or not.
but as in the past with cue makers sooner or later many of them quit making cues and keep all the money that is owed and disappear. so the fools that send money in advance get what they deserve. as this is an ongoing trait.
to restore his reputation he just has to tell his customers all orders are done whenever he feels like it and that can take months to years. and not lie to them about it. then its on the customer to make the decision to use him or not.
but as in the past with cue makers sooner or later many of them quit making cues and keep all the money that is owed and disappear. so the fools that send money in advance get what they deserve. as this is an ongoing trait.
Well at this point in time I can say that if there is no one else that has an issue, I think that is acceptable. Not that I have low standards but everyone I know has dropped the ball at least once in their career including myself...
I agree but this showman guy is more like a thief unless he return the cue very very soon
What a MAJOR nut hug!!!!! John has done nothing to deserve any credit. No matter what happened to him, there are no excuses how this has been handled. All he had to do was ship the fukn cue back.
It is theft if the guy asks for his cue back and Showman refuses. It isn't a crime if he is simply slow/disorganized/sick/old/etc. Is there a hard copy legally binding contract stating an exact date when Showman will finish the cue? He used to finish 4 to 6 cues a month. Now he finishes 4 to 6 a year. If it is a crime to slow down as you age a lot of us would be locked up.
When Kevin Varney was dying and in the hospital for months at a time he was accused of a lot of stuff on this forum because he wasn't getting work done. Was he a criminal?
I sat on my hands and didn't say anything, throughout this whole mess.
Now, I must speak up.
Your request is:
could whoever been ripped off by showman cues post here
I say we all have.
What a drama filled circus.
Threads are all over the board like some kind of rash.
I don't want to make enemies here, rather friends than enemies.
The spirit of the original thread was too sharp. That is why a mod stepped in.
This forums primary focus is pool playing.
I know forums, really well. These mods aren't anywhere close to nazis.
They basically sit back, with a bucket of water next to them, and wait for a fire. Outside of that, it's all "Free Speech".
The members here are "blessed" with good mods that donate tons of time with little or no reward, and rarely if ever any thanks.
As for the OP...........
We are all grown men here.
We all know that is very often a Bad idea to make decisions when we are upset.
"A good friend of mine beat a man to death because the guy stuck a finger in his nose".
When it comes to forums. Sometimes it's best to write, or type out, what you intend to post. Wait until the next day and read it again.
And remember, "the whole world will be able to view what you posted"
Can I relate to the OP's frustration? "Hell yes in spades!"
Can I relate to Mr. Showman, yes I honestly can.
This would have very likely been enough.........
Showman
I am suffering through a very long delay getting a unit back from Showman, and he's not returning my calls.
Anyone here know if he has moved or going through some health problems?
Then let things develop from there, but maintain your integrity.
The above example has, how do you say,..... less teeth in it.
The guy posting this gave a bicycle to a guy for some minor repair "15 years ago",... and I still haven't seen hide nor hair of it.
The guy posting this gave a Crossman pellet pistol to a guy to install new seals "18 years ago",.... and still no sign of it.
Same guy by the way
Maybe he just needs a little more time.
LOL
Now, I must speak up.
Your request is:
could whoever been ripped off by showman cues post here
I say we all have.
What a drama filled circus.
Threads are all over the board like some kind of rash.
I don't want to make enemies here, rather friends than enemies.
The spirit of the original thread was too sharp. That is why a mod stepped in.
This forums primary focus is pool playing.
I know forums, really well. These mods aren't anywhere close to nazis.
They basically sit back, with a bucket of water next to them, and wait for a fire. Outside of that, it's all "Free Speech".
The members here are "blessed" with good mods that donate tons of time with little or no reward, and rarely if ever any thanks.
As for the OP...........
We are all grown men here.
We all know that is very often a Bad idea to make decisions when we are upset.
"A good friend of mine beat a man to death because the guy stuck a finger in his nose".
When it comes to forums. Sometimes it's best to write, or type out, what you intend to post. Wait until the next day and read it again.
And remember, "the whole world will be able to view what you posted"
Can I relate to the OP's frustration? "Hell yes in spades!"
Can I relate to Mr. Showman, yes I honestly can.
This would have very likely been enough.........
Showman
I am suffering through a very long delay getting a unit back from Showman, and he's not returning my calls.
Anyone here know if he has moved or going through some health problems?
Then let things develop from there, but maintain your integrity.
The above example has, how do you say,..... less teeth in it.
The guy posting this gave a bicycle to a guy for some minor repair "15 years ago",... and I still haven't seen hide nor hair of it.
The guy posting this gave a Crossman pellet pistol to a guy to install new seals "18 years ago",.... and still no sign of it.
Same guy by the way
Maybe he just needs a little more time.
LOL
If someone dies in possession of your money or belongings, the family does not inherit them???
If the person runs up a huge amount of debt while on their death bed, the family does not get their inheritance without subtracting the debt.
His business and creditors are entitled to what ever can be salvaged to reimburse those affected customers and any judge would intercede on behalf of those to facilitate the return of deposits and items for repair.
I do not understand your "Logic" this is the second post regarding what an outrage it is and you persist that "deadlines" are irrelevant and craftsman can be as late and as slow as possible with no consequences.
Fact is, a contract has to have certain terms regarding payment and dates of completion . They must also be entered into by mentally competent people. Contracts can be written and verbal . The contract is nullified if it does not have a due date. The judge is going to ascertain what the agreed date of completion was/is and find the person in possession of the property in breach of contract. The deposit and cue go back to the original owner as the work was never completed to retain the payment.
KD
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I'm with ya on this. Countless threads by the OP about not getting his cue and nothing but excuses from the cue maker. Then countless nonsensical posts by the cue maker with excuses and no response to any of the accusations. After a 10-minute phone call, no doubt filled with more ecusess (life, health issues) OP is now satisfied that the SAME guy is going to follow through, Then OP posts in all threads all is well, nothing to see here.
In fairness to the readers of this forum all of those threads should be deleted because if they spend a considerable chunk of time reading all that drama only to get to the last page of each thread and read "Nevermind" they are gonna be ticked.
Where am I supporting him? I said in multiple places he is 100% wrong. I would consider going from no communication and threats of police to a conversation and Mike graciously offering him time to finish the work is working towards settling the situation.
Do you want the OP to get his cue back or do you just want John ran into the mud until you get bored? Call John all the names you want. Never buy a cue from him. Tell all your friends. None of that does anything to help the OP get his cue.
John is my friend and he screwed up. I want him to make it right. I called him and talked to him about the deal to see if there was anything I could do to help get it resolved. How does that make me a bad guy? Or do you just so want to be outraged that a resolution would be a let down for you?
EDIT: I had written something here but it served no useful purpose. I just want to see this situation end up with Mike getting his cue back and John moving forward.
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When you discover your law degree is fake are you going to sue cracker jacks?
Showman didn't steal the guy's cue. He is simply extremely slow. If my neighbor borrows my truck to haul some stuff and says he will have back by 3 but doesn't get it back until later he didn't steal my truck.
Now Quality has agreed to let a person he believes to be a thief and pathological liar keep the cue for the repairs. I suspect next time he will send a cue for repairs to someone who he knows will get it back to him in a timely manner.
$7,000 dollars for a Showman? If he actually paid that much that was his first mistake. It will be interesting to see how much he asks for the cue when he gets it back.
You obviously misread my post about my conversation with John. I never said that "all is well." I can only hope that I get my cue back in the very near future, and if not, will pursue a course of action that I have charted out in my mind that will result in me getting my cue back.
JCIN, your reasoning is very clear and spot on
but unfortunately some people are not happy unless they can point their finger at another human and say "look, his life is shittier than mine. Now i feel much better"
even if that means they must make the other persons life shittier first.
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
You are supporting him by coming on and saying things about how he'll get his cue back and it'll be perfect.
How does that help the OP get the cue back?
Thanks for calling Mr. Showman. If you would have simply written that, I would have liked it much better.
It is a simple thing, when things go wrong you don't tell them how much better they are going to be afterward. When a friend gets served with divorce papers, you don't tell him how much happier he'll be after...even if he is going to be happier.
Essentially what you told the OP with your post is that it's all going to be awesome...when in fact it never will.
If this were done with me, I would never be able to separate the cue from the memory of this incident. I would get the cue I loved back, see every flaw and hate the cue. Maybe that is just me.
People can be so understanding that it is amazing. Business people should learn from this. If the cuemaker in question had quoted a realistic time, the OP wouldn't be angry. If the cuemaker had called the OP when the original date came and explained that it would be longer, the OP probably wouldn't have been angry.
But, the fact is that the cuemaker in question didn't do that. He avoided contact. He did, in the eyes of the law (regardless of what Alstl thinks) steal the cue. He had this man's money and possession past when he agreed to have it and then refuses to return it. That is theft.