Criticizing Gambling

[JoeyA]

NO, THAT IS NOT WHAT I AM SAYING.

I'm saying that people who don't gamble haven't personally experienced the things that are sometimes tolerated in the gambling world and so their opinions as to what is right or wrong should not carry the same weight as those who gamble on a regular basis.

Some gamblers might say that non-gamblers should mind their own ****ing business when it comes to admonishing those who gamble but that's not what I am saying either. Lol

Until you have walked a mile in another man's shoes, you really don't have the personal experience to know what he has gone through, what he has to deal with.

I have no problem with non-gamblers criticizing gambling. Gambling is a terrible thing for many people. It has destroyed marriages, ruined relationships, cost people their jobs, even their careers.

A cab driver in Las Vegas recently told me about a guy who came to Vegas and lost everything he had and went to the local shooting range in Vegas and blew his brains out.

It's easy for me to understand how non-gamblers would have the ability to have a valid opinion about not gambling but that isn't what this thread is about. Hope that makes more sense now.

JoeyA

This statement literally make NO SENSE whatsoever


If a person is critical of gambling, then by default he shouldn't be gambling else he's being hypocritical. You're saying the only people who have the right to criticize gambling are people who gamble??? LMAO now I've heard everything.

 

[DAVE_M]

NO, THAT IS NOT WHAT I AM SAYING.

I'm saying that people who don't gamble haven't personally experienced the things that are sometimes tolerated in the gambling world and so their opinions as to what is right or wrong should not carry the same weight as those who gamble on a regular basis.

Some gamblers might say that non-gamblers should mind their own ****ing business when it comes to admonishing those who gamble but that's not what I am saying either. Lol

Until you have walked a mile in another man's shoes, you really don't have the personal experience to know what he has gone through, what he has to deal with.

I have no problem with non-gamblers criticizing gambling. Gambling is a terrible thing for many people. It has destroyed marriages, ruined relationships, cost people their jobs, even their careers.

A cab driver in Las Vegas recently told me about a guy who came to Vegas and lost everything he had and went to the local shooting range in Vegas and blew his brains out.

It's easy for me to understand how non-gamblers would have the ability to have a valid opinion about not gambling but that isn't what this thread is about. Hope that makes more sense now.

JoeyA

How do you know if people that don't gamble, haven't gambled? I know lots of people that blow their savings in every tournament calcutta, but never bet on themselves playing. I've been backed by guys that are exactly like that and I'm sure you have too.

You're saying if someone doesn't gamble, then their opinion has no value. So, are you asking our opinions on if their opinion is valuable, or are you fishing for opinions that agree with your opinion? Do you think others' opinions will sway your opinion?

 

[Mikey Town]

It all depends on the non-gambler in question, and how exposed to/educated about gambling that they are.

I don't think that anyone would say that Vin Scully's opinions on the game of professional baseball don't hold as much weight as someone who actually played professional baseball. He is someone that has been long exposed to the game, and highly educated about it, even though he's never actually played it. In this case, his opinion should carry a lot of weight.

If the "non-gambler" likes to spend time at the pool hall watching the action, it's very possible that they could gather enough perspective to have a valid opinion about certain situations that arise while gambling.

Is this usually the case? No. But that's not to say that you must have experience doing something in order to be knowledgeable about it.

 

[pt109]

It all depends on the non-gambler in question, and how exposed to/educated about gambling that they are.

I don't think that anyone would say that Vin Scully's opinions on the game of professional baseball don't hold as much weight as someone who actually played professional baseball. He is someone that has been long exposed to the game, and highly educated about it, even though he's never actually played it. In this case, his opinion should carry a lot of weight.

If the "non-gambler" likes to spend time at the pool hall watching the action, it's very possible that they could gather enough perspective to have a valid opinion about certain situations that arise while gambling.

Is this usually the case? No. But that's not to say that you must have experience doing something in order to be knowledgeable about it.

I like this post.
I have lots of friends that don't gamble.....and I use them for advice.
I like their somewhat remote point of view.....tends to be objective.

Did you ever watch two people play while you're having a coffee?
I tend to see things to establish why one player is winning...
..now, if I bet on the match....it doesn't seem to be the same match....'cause I want the cash.

 

[West Point 1987]

I don't gamble on pool now, but I used to. I quit gambling on pool about 20 years ago, because it wasn't fun for me anymore, win or lose. I know how to gamble/match up, how to string the match along to maximize the take or when to pull up without too much drama. I realized that enjoying gambling and enjoying playing were two different things to me. I take great satisfaction in just playing with anonymous people I run into at a pool room or in a tournament. I love the game for the sake of the skill involved in playing my best. The game gives me all the rush I need.

Like many have said here, there's no connection to being a better player because of gambling. Gambling is a different skill set that you can apply while playing pool...but top notch pool doesn't require the test of fire of betting up in the box. I've done both and I was a decent gambler when I started out playing pool, but now I don't gamble and I'm a much better player...probably wouldn't do well matching up these days, I've lost my touch for getting/giving the spot to maximize my chances. Really two different things. I don't criticize folks for enjoying gambling (although I think it's insane to think you can make a living at it), and I think it's asinine for someone to criticize folks for NOT gambling, as though they're somehow less a part of the game.

JoeyA, this is not the first time you've asked everyone about their take on gambling...but I've never really heard your take on it...I'd really like to hear it. :smile:

 

[Scott Lee]

ktrepal84...You don't get better just by gambling. If you cannot understand that, then good luck with improving your game. The majority of your threads and posts have to do with your inability to be consistent in your pool game. Gambling is not the route to find improvement...without a consistent stroke to back it up.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I think the OP was referring to people who don't gamble coming out and saying how gambling is not going to get you better or bring out your best game. If someone has never gambled then how can they have a meaningful opinion on whether or not it would get you any better?

 

[Drop The Rock]

ktrepal84...You don't get better just by gambling. If you cannot understand that, then good luck with improving your game. The majority of your threads and posts have to do with your inability to be consistent in your pool game. Gambling is not the route to find improvement...without a consistent stroke to back it up.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Pressure helps, whether it is being competitive for free, cheap, or expensive. Tournaments apply pressure as well. Scott is very correct though, brushing up on ze fundamentals constantly is the only way.

 

[JoeyA]

EXCELLENT POINT!

JoeyA

It all depends on the non-gambler in question, and how exposed to/educated about gambling that they are.

I don't think that anyone would say that Vin Scully's opinions on the game of professional baseball don't hold as much weight as someone who actually played professional baseball. He is someone that has been long exposed to the game, and highly educated about it, even though he's never actually played it. In this case, his opinion should carry a lot of weight.

If the "non-gambler" likes to spend time at the pool hall watching the action, it's very possible that they could gather enough perspective to have a valid opinion about certain situations that arise while gambling.

Is this usually the case? No. But that's not to say that you must have experience doing something in order to be knowledgeable about it.

 

[wayne]

That Einstein guy was a real loser. Van Gogh, whatta rube. Mother Teresa must have been a complete failure.

..
I knew Einstein played pool but didn't know he was a real loser. I had no idea that Van Gogh and Mother Teresa were pool players.

 

[JoeyA]

West Point,
My take on gambling is simple enough. Gamble it you like or don't gamble. It makes no difference to me. It doesn't impact me one way or the other.

Gambling won't improve most players' pool game and the reasons are varied but not limited to: they just aren't good at gambling or they haven't studied in school long enough or just couldn't learn the required material.

Gambling at pool does help some people to focus better; for some it makes them choke and creates too much pressure.

For a minority of people gambling is the WORST thing they could ever do.

Gambling at pool in itself isn't as detrimental as some of the other things in pool like dumping, cheating, sharking, bullying and angry, boisterous players demanding that another player wager what they want to bet.

I try to bite my tongue when I see others gambling because you don't always know all of the ins and outs of the wager taking place right before you eyes.

When I see people like my best friend who doesn't gamble, I smile and admire their savvy.

In gambling, if you win, you almost never played a fair game and your opponent practically demands that you adjust the spot.

If you win many will consider that you were stealing.

If you lose, you just played bad.

If you lose regularly, you are just a sucker.

If you do win, you aren't allowed to quit a winner.

Some of the best people in pool think gambling is a pox on pool.

If you lose, you can lose until you are broke and it will be all right with your opponent.

If the banditos know that you gamble for big stakes, you will always be a target for them, in or out the pool room.

In spite of all that, I kind of like it but doubt very seriously that it is good for pool. That's about all I can think of for now.

JoeyA

I don't gamble on pool now, but I used to. I quit gambling on pool about 20 years ago, because it wasn't fun for me anymore, win or lose. I know how to gamble/match up, how to string the match along to maximize the take or when to pull up without too much drama. I realized that enjoying gambling and enjoying playing were two different things to me. I take great satisfaction in just playing with anonymous people I run into at a pool room or in a tournament. I love the game for the sake of the skill involved in playing my best. The game gives me all the rush I need.

Like many have said here, there's no connection to being a better player because of gambling. Gambling is a different skill set that you can apply while playing pool...but top notch pool doesn't require the test of fire of betting up in the box. I've done both and I was a decent gambler when I started out playing pool, but now I don't gamble and I'm a much better player...probably wouldn't do well matching up these days, I've lost my touch for getting/giving the spot to maximize my chances. Really two different things. I don't criticize folks for enjoying gambling (although I think it's insane to think you can make a living at it), and I think it's asinine for someone to criticize folks for NOT gambling, as though they're somehow less a part of the game.

JoeyA, this is not the first time you've asked everyone about their take on gambling...but I've never really heard your take on it...I'd really like to hear it. :smile:

 

[jackpot]

different for everyone

It seems to me everyone is different. Some can bare down and play
hard for fun the same as when they are gambling. Others can't. But I wonder
how many pros or top players didn't gamble as they were learning the game
and improving to the level that they now play. ANY ? I realize that If pool
was like golf, tennis, etc. that it might be possible to become a champion
with out gambling but I doubt it. There are enough games for the non-gambler
But that is another thing that is unique about this game that makes it the
best of all games. Play 24 hours a day year round, short, tall, skinny, fat,
smart,dumb, cheap to play, the coolest of all equipment (cues) call fun
players no gambling nits, call gamblers low class thieving ner-do-wells,
we are truly blessed to be pool players. I love it all.
jack
FREE SJD

 

[sixpack]

West Point,
My take on gambling is simple enough. Gamble it you like or don't gamble. It makes no difference to me. It doesn't impact me one way or the other.

Gambling won't improve most players' pool game and the reasons are varied but not limited to: they just aren't good at gambling or they haven't studied in school long enough or just couldn't learn the required material.

Gambling at pool does help some people to focus better; for some it makes them choke and creates too much pressure.

For a minority of people gambling is the WORST thing they could ever do.

Gambling at pool in itself isn't as detrimental as some of the other things in pool like dumping, cheating, sharking, bullying and angry, boisterous players demanding that another player wager what they want to bet.

I try to bite my tongue when I see others gambling because you don't always know all of the ins and outs of the wager taking place right before you eyes.

When I see people like my best friend who doesn't gamble, I smile and admire their savvy.

In gambling, if you win, you almost never played a fair game and your opponent practically demands that you adjust the spot.

If you win many will consider that you were stealing.

If you lose, you just played bad.

If you lose regularly, you are just a sucker.

If you do win, you aren't allowed to quit a winner.

Some of the best people in pool think gambling is a pox on pool.

If you lose, you can lose until you are broke and it will be all right with your opponent.

If the banditos know that you gamble for big stakes, you will always be a target for them, in or out the pool room.

In spite of all that, I kind of like it but doubt very seriously that it is good for pool. That's about all I can think of for now.

JoeyA

I agree with this. I used to gamble more but now if I do gamble it's just a small friendly wager. What I hate when I'm in a game with someone is when somebody from the sidelines starts sticking their nose in the game when they have no idea what's going on.

And I really don't need to hear from people who don't gamble about whether or not I should gamble. Trust me I've been through it in my head enough.

And I really hate it when I match up over my head (which I like to do from time to time) and have people I don't even know come up and tell me the game is unfair and I need to get some weight. I know they mean well but I know what the game is and I'm an adult and I'm not betting more than I can lose. Buzz off.

 

[JC]

I don't care whether a person gambles or not, but I find it pathetic when people say they can't play their best game unless there is some cash on the line.

They don't mean that their skill level suddenly increases, what they mean is that their performance level increases because they are more interested in it and play up to their best level for longer. Whatever that level is. They get tired quickly watching someone beat balls around the table with no reason to try harder and lose interest.

I don't find it pathetic, I find it honest and reasonable. And usually true.

Most people who think like you do so because they wouldn't bet a penny that water is wet. Am I in the wrong thread? Isn't there a "nit" thread going right now?

JC

 

[macguy]

I don't care whether a person gambles or not, but I find it pathetic when people say they can't play their best game unless there is some cash on the line.

How do you know what your best game is? Unless you play under ligit conditions and pressure such as tournament play of gambling, you may be fooling yourself.

I have seen it many times. I used to run a lot of tournaments. I almost always put players in to fill out the field. Some times I had to talk them into it, good players that came in the room every night.

They have all the equipment, the books, can name drop players they have see and so on. You know the players I am taking about, I am sure you know a few. It would be very rare if they would finish in the money. In fact they usually would sh!t all over themselves.

It wasn't quite the same as playing for fun. They didn't even put up any money but they were now playing under a more real pressure then they were used to.

This is not to say they could never get used to it, but unless they expose themselves to it all those balls they run and racks they run in practice or for fun with friends are hollow. That is why fun players get less respect, unless you can do it when it counts, it don't mean anything.

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

How do you know what your best game is? Unless you play under ligit conditions and pressure such as tournament play of gambling, you may be fooling yourself.

I have seen it many times. I used to run a lot of tournaments. I almost always put players in to fill out the field. Some times I had to talk them into it, good players that came in the room every night.

Had all the equipment, the books, can name drop players they have see and so on. It would be very rare if they would finish in the money. In fact they usually would sh!t all over themselves.

It wasn't quite the same as playing for fun. They didn't even put up any money but they were now playing under a more real pressure then they were used to.

This is not to say they could never get used to it, but unless they expose themselves to it all those balls they run and racks they run in practice or for fun with friends are hollow. That is why fun players get less respect, unless you can do it when it counts, it don't mean anything.

I'm pretty realistic when I talk about what my best game is. I've played in enough pressure situations.

I've felt more pressure in my local non-handicapped league than anywhere else, I've been the final game to win matches and have mostly won the match, many times by b&r.

It is likely for some that they don't put the same pressure on themselves when they are playing for fun, but for me, I simply won't play if it isn't fun. Practice is fun, tourneys are fun...as such, the pressures are the same. Gambling is not for me, because I don't want to make some dude 'eat noodles for a week'...and most have a lot less money than I do while dealing with a lot more responsibility. Why would that be fun for me? Make a bit of money that won't change my life?

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

They don't mean that their skill level suddenly increases, what they mean is that their performance level increases because they are more interested in it and play up to their best level for longer. Whatever that level is. They get tired quickly watching someone beat balls around the table with no reason to try harder and lose interest.

I don't find it pathetic, I find it honest and reasonable. And usually true.

Most people who think like you do so because they wouldn't bet a penny that water is wet. Am I in the wrong thread? Isn't there a "nit" thread going right now?

JC

This is exactly why I find it pathetic...their interest level goes up.

I love people like you, figuring you know me and find some sort of character flaw in the fact that I won't bet. At all. It doesn't interest me.

You don't know how I think. If you ever got in my head, I guarantee you couldn't keep up.

I used to bet on a lot of things, but it all started to bore me.

 

[macguy]

I'm pretty realistic when I talk about what my best game is. I've played in enough pressure situations.

I've felt more pressure in my local non-handicapped league than anywhere else, I've been the final game to win matches and have mostly won the match, many times by b&r.

It is likely for some that they don't put the same pressure on themselves when they are playing for fun, but for me, I simply won't play if it isn't fun. Practice is fun, tourneys are fun...as such, the pressures are the same. Gambling is not for me, because I don't want to make some dude 'eat noodles for a week'...and most have a lot less money than I do while dealing with a lot more responsibility. Why would that be fun for me? Make a bit of money that won't change my life?

I think tournament and league play is more pressure then gambling. Tournaments are sudden death and money players don't like that. In fact I have seen top money players actually dog it in tournaments. They have no control over anything. Can't say "Play another" or "Raise the bet". They can lose to anybody.

League play you have a responsibility to the team. That is real pressure, especially if you are a good player and expected to win, they are counting on you.

 

[JoeyA]

Boy oh boy, do I like your post and not because we have similar perspectives but that last paragraph almost made me get up out of my chair. If they tell me I'm in a bad game while I'm playing the game to be determined, it really riles me up so much I can barely stand it. Pals? Lol
At least wait until its over before you tell me I was in a bad game. It won't be the first and guess what? I've won a match or two of those "bad games" and it never killed me to lose the others.

JoeyA

I agree with this. I used to gamble more but now if I do gamble it's just a small friendly wager. What I hate when I'm in a game with someone is when somebody from the sidelines starts sticking their nose in the game when they have no idea what's going on.

And I really don't need to hear from people who don't gamble about whether or not I should gamble. Trust me I've been through it in my head enough.

And I really hate it when I match up over my head (which I like to do from time to time) and have people I don't even know come up and tell me the game is unfair and I need to get some weight. I know they mean well but I know what the game is and I'm an adult and I'm not betting more than I can lose. Buzz off.

 

[jackpot]

league is the hardest

I agree with MACGUY I think league play is by far the hardest. I grew up
playing in the 60s and 70s so it was almost all gambling. There were very
few tournaments and no leagues so you were comfortable gambling. It
takes a while to get used to playing anything else. It's one thing to dog it
when it's just you but when it's the other people on the team that it effects
I hate it. And they all say "that's all right shake it off". You know damn well
they want to hit you right in the mouth and you wish they would. Tournaments
are hard, because no matter how good you play you can lose to a much
weaker player, and it really pisses you off. This very, very rarely happens
gambling.
jack
FREE SJD

 

[West Point 1987]

West Point,
My take on gambling is simple enough. Gamble it you like or don't gamble. It makes no difference to me. It doesn't impact me one way or the other.

Gambling won't improve most players' pool game and the reasons are varied but not limited to: they just aren't good at gambling or they haven't studied in school long enough or just couldn't learn the required material.

Gambling at pool does help some people to focus better; for some it makes them choke and creates too much pressure.

For a minority of people gambling is the WORST thing they could ever do.

Gambling at pool in itself isn't as detrimental as some of the other things in pool like dumping, cheating, sharking, bullying and angry, boisterous players demanding that another player wager what they want to bet.

I try to bite my tongue when I see others gambling because you don't always know all of the ins and outs of the wager taking place right before you eyes.

When I see people like my best friend who doesn't gamble, I smile and admire their savvy.

In gambling, if you win, you almost never played a fair game and your opponent practically demands that you adjust the spot.

If you win many will consider that you were stealing.

If you lose, you just played bad.

If you lose regularly, you are just a sucker.

If you do win, you aren't allowed to quit a winner.

Some of the best people in pool think gambling is a pox on pool.

If you lose, you can lose until you are broke and it will be all right with your opponent.

If the banditos know that you gamble for big stakes, you will always be a target for them, in or out the pool room.

In spite of all that, I kind of like it but doubt very seriously that it is good for pool. That's about all I can think of for now.

JoeyA

Very good post...can't fault a bit of it. I absolutely agree!