CTE automatically corrects stroke issues

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Of course one can celebrate successful results without giving any thought to whatever claims anyone made about the process that produced the results.

I don't have to believe in Santa Claus to experience the joy of giving and getting presents on a certain day that society uses for that purpose.

Pressed for proof? Of what? That a system was never meant to be? That's an opinion.

That it connects to the geometry of the table? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't but is that statement necessary to use the system?

I mean if someone sells me a fuel additive where they claim that the nano-particles caused by the excitement of the vibration creates more efficiency resulting in a clear increase in miles per gallon then for me the increase in miles per gallon part is the most interesting. That gets me looking at the product and my two criteria are will it harm my engine and does it work.

What else? Cte straightens the shot.... Whatever that means maybe it does. Again we come back to the fact that pool is a results based activity. You shoot until you miss. So when the frequency of missing is reduced satisfactorily for the shooter then that shooter doesn't care whether or not the process straightens the shot or not.

And, I imagine that this applies to poolology users as well, any method that produces greater confidence in the aim which in turn results in a measurable increase in pocketing does "feel like cheating" the emotional high that a player gets from mastering a new tool that produces solid results is overwhelming. That exhilaration also inspires the user to want to practice more and to compete more. Which is great for the sport.

Much better than anything else? Again this is an opinion in the absence of data that backs it up. I can say that in my opinion cte is better than anything else I have tried and that should never be taken as anything more than my anecdotal communication about it.

Professional system....I would ask in what context? What professionals use? Produces professional level aiming accuracy? But this falls into the marketing sphere in the same way of "never meant to be" in that it is simply not relevant to whether the system works or not. If one assumes that most professional players aim accurately for a high percentage of the shots they face then any system that leads the user to a similar level of aiming accuracy would be ok to describe as a professional system. Although I would give the reasoning that I just did if I chose to use that description.

Lastly I completely disagree about the point being to build a memory bank of shot pictures. I disagree with aiming system proponents on this as well. I think that having such a library to the extent that we could imagine such actually exists it should serve as a reference which can be double-checked through the objective aiming process. I think that entire point of having effective objective aiming methods is that one doesn't need to rely on having ever shot any particular shot in order to aim it correctly.

Sure, refinement of any working system through reduction of steps with no loss in accuracy of results is desirable.

That's exactly why we no longer do a fire dance before lighting the charcoal. However you have not been able to identify which steps in the cte process are unnecessary and you won't identify them as long as you have no data comparing the efficacy of various methods.

Because that is actually the most important criteria. Which methods produce the shot line accurately and consistently? And of those methods which is the easiest to learn and master on average?

One would be entirely correct to say that the learning curve for cte is currently steep. This isn't any sort of "magic bullet" like some critics attempt to claim that it is marketed as such. Despite the actual steps being pretty easy once understood learning those steps often requires a letting go of concepts that have been drilled into us by most pool books, such as the idea that aiming is a byproduct of a developing a straight stroke.

Aiming has traditionally been an underserved aspect of the sport. The assumption that everyone can aim accurately just because they have developed a straight stroke is not supported by any evidence. The idea that ghost ball is the only aiming method one needs if one needs an aiming system is equally unsupported. The claim that all aiming systems are just guessing and none are better than any other is also not proven. The idea that aiming cannot be objective is not correct. The idea that it is impossible for an aiming system user to aim, objectively is disproven by poolology because as you say, it works perfectly right or of the box.

So what's left?

Demonstrate the effectiveness of your jelly bean method by performing as good or better than Stan to pique my interest and I will give you $100 for your two jellybeans.

And then I will report back on my results of the Dan "Jelly Bean" White aiming method.
Here's the bottom line. There is absolutely no reason to believe CTE is an objective process that gives you the shot line. It is not up for me to disprove something that Stan claims yet cannot prove. The reason Poolology works immediately is because it is a geometrically correct method that tells you the shot line. The reason CTE has that steep learning curve is because students, IMO, are basically learning how to pocket balls through HAMB with the CTE pre shot steps as basically a placebo. I will say that the perceptions will get the player in the general vicinity of the pocket but only through that steep learning curve will they start to shoot better. If you can create some studies that prove otherwise then great. Until then, don't you think its best not to make claims that you can't substantiate? I personally think if Stan took the tactic that you mention a lot of arguing would have been avoided. Don't make any claims other than you will play much better after learning this. Stan had enough cred he didn't need the hyperbole and idiots like Low Joe saying ridiculous things.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Really?

When the balls go into the pockets.

Lou Figueroa
That's the result AFTER finding the shot line and after STROKING correctly to send the cue ball down that line.

Finding the shot line is the first step.

Do you have a perfect PSR? If you miss why do you miss?

Was your pre-shot routine not perfect? What part wasn't perfect?
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Here's the bottom line. There is absolutely no reason to believe CTE is an objective process that gives you the shot line.
For you. For cte users it is objective.

It is not up for me to disprove something that Stan claims yet cannot prove.
He has proven it to the satisfaction of the users who have mastered the method.


The reason Poolology works immediately is because it is a geometrically correct method that tells you the shot line.
Even the creator doesn't claim it works immediately.
The reason CTE has that steep learning curve is because students, IMO, are basically learning how to pocket balls through HAMB with the CTE pre shot steps as basically a placebo.
That is completely incorrect. Incredibly incorrect and shows a deep misunderstanding of the process. CTE users can shoot shots with at least a 50% chance of success that they have never shot before.

They don't need to practice every shot for that.

You can have a bunch of proficient cte users and a bunch of ghost ball users and the CTE users can call out the aiming solution in "cte-code"and any of them will know how to align without hesitation. Thus the make percentage for the CTE users is likely to be higher, probably much higher.

I will say that the perceptions will get the player in the general vicinity of the pocket
Every aiming method gets the shooter in the "vicinity of the pocket" so to speak. Otherwise it isn't even brought out for public consumption.

but only through that steep learning curve will they start to shoot better.

Lasting improvement takes dedicated effort. Some people benefit from cte within days of starting to learn it. As with all methods some people get things faster than others and some take more time to digest the information.

If you can create some studies that prove otherwise then great.

Prove what otherwise? I will prove that cte is very effective at leading the user to shot line.

Until then, don't you think its best not to make claims that you can't substantiate?
What claims have I made that I cannot substantiate? I said that from the user's perspective the process is objective. That has been echoed by many other cte users. By it's very nature one would have to be a proficient cte user to offer a valid opinion on what the process looks like from the shooter's perspective.


I personally think if Stan took the tactic that you mention a lot of arguing would have been avoided.
Fair enough. But again when anyone else makes similar claims like "never miss another shot" then it is curious that the cte critics aren't so diligent about challenging claims.


Don't make any claims other than you will play much better after learning this.
Let's not pretend that this would not be criticized. In fact you and all of the cte critics have consistently challenged the "play better after leaning it". You all have literally rejected every person's claim of improvement due to cte by saying that the claimant is self-deluded.

Stan had enough cred he didn't need the hyperbole and idiots like Low Joe saying ridiculous things.
Maybe but Stan has his reasons for saying everything he says. To him it is not hyperbole.

The criticism is excessive and obsessive in my opinion.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Yo

That's what the top of the ellipse is for. You seem to be straddling the fraud line.
Nah, the ellipse means nothing. More nonsense.

When you have a practical set of instructions to present we will try them out. Until then the pretentiousness is just noise.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
how bout the untold number that aim, shoot but can't make the QB hit where they aim on a consistent basis

you've displayed stroke issues in the past (iirc), if that has been resolved what % do you attribute to an aiming system and what % to other factors

You were a hundred ball runner playing 14-1 prior to cte, what is your high run since if you don't mind me asking

BTW, i tried cte without a coach and just don't get it....do you know of anyone in the mid-south who is capable of basic instruction
Bob Nunley is in Arkansas

 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John Barton:
In post #184, (one of your best posts) you stated: "Let's not pretend that this would not be criticized. In fact you and all of the CTE critics have consistently challenged the "play better after learning it". You all have literally rejected every person's claim of improvement due to CTE by saying that the claimant is self-deluded."
John, your statement is perfectly congruent with what I posted somewhere around here that "pathological losers will always find something wrong with CTE"..... (since it clashes with their own belief systems.)
You never hear any of them rejecting any person's claim of improvement from using any other method of aiming a shot, however.
Friend, it is your life to live as you wish.....I still maintain you're wasting your mental energy attempting to enlighten dullards in these arguments.

Kindest regards,(y)
P. Lowenstein.
CTE ProOne Patch very small.jpg
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
What claims have I made that I cannot substantiate?
You can have a bunch of proficient cte users and a bunch of ghost ball users and the CTE users can call out the aiming solution in "cte-code"and any of them will know how to align without hesitation. Thus the make percentage for the CTE users is likely to be higher, probably much higher.
Found one... took longer than I thought though. I had to go backward several lines within the same post. Usually it's a mere sentence or two away.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Asshole. Explain why the ellipse means nothing.
Would there perhaps also be an ellipse on the OB or is that a different shape? I'd imagine if there were an ellipse on the OB it would be much thinner at it's short radius. I might be seeing this entirely wrong.
 

8pack

They call me 2 county !
Silver Member
Following the facebook page has been getting more and more frustrating. Every day there seems to be some new imaginary yet not imaginary line im supposed to be paying attention to or some new epiphany i'm supposed to be having based on totally cryptic messages. Its honestly a headache and its exhausting.

I just want to miss less my dude.
If you're talking about pro1 ,it might be the worst way on how to aim properly unless you got a good handle on pocketing balls before hand. Then you need to add english to it.. over complicating matters in my opinion.
 

8pack

They call me 2 county !
Silver Member
What happens when you get a bad visual using cte. Example...your edge of the cb isn't aligned with a.. b... or c but yo I think you are.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Would there perhaps also be an ellipse on the OB or is that a different shape? I'd imagine if there were an ellipse on the OB it would be much thinner at it's short radius. I might be seeing this entirely wrong.
I suppose if you're close enough to envision an oval on the object ball, you could experiment with it. The beauty of the ellipse on the cue ball is the side you face - the equator gives you the correct curve no matter the elevation. Center sphere is always center sphere so you only need flip the equator over the center point. You now have x-ray vision and can correctly orient the contact point and connect the dots from there. Granted the true shot image may take some practice before you can conjure it at will but pool is all small steps anyway.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's the result AFTER finding the shot line and after STROKING correctly to send the cue ball down that line.

Finding the shot line is the first step.

Do you have a perfect PSR? If you miss why do you miss?

Was your pre-shot routine not perfect? What part wasn't perfect?

It's: experimenting, observing the results, determining what caused the observed result, and then duplicating the experiment.

Because we're human and not robots, there will always be a certain percentage of failure. But, if you nail down what is producing your positive outcomes you can reduce your failure percentage to an ever diminishing amount.

Lou Figueroa
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Found one... took longer than I thought though. I had to go backward several lines within the same post. Usually it's a mere sentence or two away.
What that the make percentage of a cte user would "likely" be higher, sounds more like an opinion then a claim.
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you're talking about pro1 ,it might be the worst way on how to aim properly unless you got a good handle on pocketing balls before hand. Then you need to add english to it.. over complicating matters in my opinion.
And my opinion would be that pro1 is the best center ball system, no english needed.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
CTE users can call out the aiming solution in "cte-code"and any of them will know how to align without hesitation.
"CTE-code" doesn't describe an "aiming solution" - it describes a reference alignment from which to estimate the actual solution. The reference may be more or less "objective" - the solution obviously isn't.

Exactly like other aiming methods, except more confused.

pj
chgo
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
What that the make percentage of a cte user would "likely" be higher, sounds more like an opinion then a claim.
Don't cherry pick... It was "the make percentage for the CTE users is likely to be higher, probably much higher".

opinion:
noun
  1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge

claim:
verb
  1. state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof

unsubstantiated:
adjective
  1. not supported or proven by evidence.

Edit: Apologies cookie. You saw this post before I edited it to remove comments that could escalate the debate. I'm not interested in bickering. Just thought I'd point out the hypocrisy in JB's post
 
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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
It's: experimenting, observing the results, determining what caused the observed result, and then duplicating the experiment.

Because we're human and not robots, there will always be a certain percentage of failure. But, if you nail down what is producing your positive outcomes you can reduce your failure percentage to an ever diminishing amount.

Lou Figueroa
That is so specific.
 
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