Joey, I’ve seen both DVDs — I don’t recall anything there about all that.
Lou Figueroa
CTE Stepping Cue Ball.
- Thread starter tonythetiger583
- Start date
Joey, I’ve seen both DVDs — I don’t recall anything there about all that.
Lou Figueroa
Service pack came later.
The pros do it, they just don't know they do it.
Jeez all I did was call Butler Books and asked who published Center Pocket Music. From the reaction here you'd have thought I had the FBI storm Stan's home! lol
Nonsense.
No she didn't. There was NOTHING whatsoever that was said that was or could have been construed as threatening in any way. And for the record the ONLY characterization you could possibly have that contradicts mine is the narrative from Lalumiere. The whole conversation was very brief and nothing was said to her in any way that would have caused here to feel threatened. She volunteered the information that Mike Lalumiere was her son and offered the phone number after I POLITELY and RESPECTFULLY asked to speak to him. So, you are basing your statement of fact on HEARSAY told to you by a liar.
Once again you prove that you are not up to speed on what is going on in the billiard industry. Matchroom only barred me from the tournament and it was only because Mike pretended to be scared. They were wrong and the admitted that they had ZERO proof one way or the other. Mike flat out lied to them. The police report stated that he refused medical attention and had no signs of having been injured. Matchroom simply wanted to avoid any conflict at the venue. I have spoken to them about it and in fact they said they could have and should have handled it better.
Sure your "stories" get positive comments. You're a professional liar and so when you embellish you do it quite well. The only problem is that you don't tell people that you're not telling the truth and others who were there have different views on some of your descriptions of event and characterizations of the participants. When I first saw you writing I had no reason to doubt anything you wrote and I was entertained and grateful for the "cool stories". I also complimented and thanked you for them as did many others. But after you chose to target me and we entered into flame wars the cracks in your stories started to appear. You claim below to have been contacted by xyz.. in private offering to back you but you fail to consider that people have their "lou is a tool" stories to tell as well and they have told them to me during the lead up to the match.
Prove it. I doubt that anyone I deal with DIRECTLY has said this to you. But you won't prove it because it's easier to simply lie about it and say you're protecting their privacy.
Lol, ok, that MIGHT the only true thing you have said. But, that's what you claim now and yet IN PRIVATE where we were supposed to be negotiating in good faith you cried like a whiny child about it and threatened not to play. So maybe you were screwing with me or maybe you're just exactly that nitty or both. I know that the "crew" you had was deliberately screwing with me. Y'all are about the DUMBEST though because I offered to double the bet six weeks before the match and freeze it all up and instead of immediately jumping on that you decided to keep jerking me around with the possibility of having traveled to New Jersey for only 3k to split between you if I chose not to play.
I asked you to play for a thousand when I saw you in St. Louis and you refused. You said why play for less than ten when I could back out if you beat me for a lesser amount. I told you that I would freeze up the whole ten right then so that backing out wouldn't be an issue. You still refused and instead thought you could rely on gamesmanship.
As for CTE vs Feel. Lou, be honest and realize that you are a good average player and that's it. You have gotten to the level you are at though rote practice and that level is just average. Still you're a steady player with a textbook form and the first time we played when I beat you in the piddly race to two I was quite complimentary of your form and your game. If you remember I said something like you have an incredibly great stop shot.
But we have nine hours of footage now and you're just a decent player who misses a lot of easy shots and makes a lot of great shots. You know the game but you're not anything special. You played a guy who has said a zillion times that he has no self-discipline and whom was so dumb as to arrange an emotionally charged "grudge" match just two days after the conclusion of a major show where he had to put in a solid week of 16 hours days. I was so clueless that I didn't even realize how goofy my form had become and it was only exacerbated by the "revelation" that your secret backer was the LIAR Michael Lalumiere. Without him there wouldn't have been a match because you NEVER EVER would have played. You ducked me three times prior even when I came to St. Louis to play you.
So stop with the I have backers bullshit. Yes I certainly think that there are people who want to see me lose. And there are people who would be happy to bet against me. But the fact is that you will NOT play because you barely beat me when I was playing the worst pool I had played in years. I put myself into a high stress match and didn't adequately prepare. I was so dumb that I didn't negotiate a rematch before we played because I honestly thought naively that we could bury the animosity and there would not be any need for a rematch. I really do give people far too much credit for decency.
The bottom line is that you're a liar and you're a bully. I stand up to bullies and won't stop doing so. I said from the beginning that I would play you and I did exactly what I said I would do. You crew had no need to play the games you did, "purposely pulling my chain" as you said above. But you did which is reflective of how you all operate, you're two-bit jerkoffs who felt like you needed to "hustle" me instead of being honorable and competing fairly. I showed up and played even though your despicable behavior made me want to cancel the match. Unlike you I have heart. Too much heart sometimes. I challenged you to play before I knew ANYTHING about how you played. You on the other hand needed to have "intel" and play games to keep me off the practice table among other bullshit actions leading up to the match. When we finally did play I was super goofy and not still and emotionally wound up and it showed in the terrible form. So the fact is that CTE did help me to stay with you when I was playing horribly. Had I been steady I would have shot your nuts off and stomped them into such tiny pieces that not even dust mites could feed on them. You know this and that is why you can't afford to play me again. It isn't that you care about wasting the money of whomever might back you, it is that your ego could not take getting drilled by me. You could not possibly enjoy the rest of your life with a major loss to me on the books.
For me I don't give a shit whether we ever play again or not but I damned sure won't let you pretend that you don't want to because of any other reason than your own cowardice. You were a coward in 2001 when I challenged you to play and you are still a coward today. If you had the heart to play then we would have already played a rematch. But all you have is excuses and "stories".
Yes, the pool world is small. And you're a tiny part of that small world with a microscopic amount of heart that keeps you yapping on the porch.
Hey Joey, you do understand that a service pack is IMPROVEMENTS to existing software right? I mean I have seen you trying out this line in the past month or so like it's an insult.
Stan took the time to visit Hal Houle many times and then used his time to work on how to apply what he learned from Hal. It was the critics here that motivated Stan to make a DVD. It was Stan's wherewithal and determination that led him to keep improving and refining it and that led to a second dvd on the subject. And still he didn't stop and has written a book on the subject with more refinements to the point where, in Stan's words, he has solved CTE. He has been there for CTE students the whole way. Anyone can contact Stan and discuss any part of the DVDs and the book.
Now I get it that you think that ALL of that effort is wasted because you think that Hal Houle and the systems he taught are not valid. And you think that Stan is a snake-oil salesman. But the fact is that Stan is a top notch BCA and PBIA certified instructor. He is a 720 speed player whose son is a multi-time national champion. As a coach Stan is excellent and he has coached and instructed many professional players, including some who were publicly not supportive of aiming systems.
So, the fact is that CTE works incredibly well and any information that is new which you mock as "service packs" is just refinements to the process in support of the continued teaching and learning of CTE. I find it to admirable that Stan has done this. He literally could have quit after DVD one and that would have been enough to still provide an amazing amount of great instruction for those wanting to improve their aiming accuracy. Instead he published revisions to the process as he discovered them and kept his students informed of the state of the art in CTE aiming. From a cost standpoint that is lot of extra expense for no extra revenue. Yet he did it anyway for the benefit of those who bought the first DVD and continued the honorable dissemination of new information and revisions after the release of the second DVD.
Now with the book he is available for anyone who asks for help. As a companion to the book he made a series of videos going over each step of the process in detail.
Stan took the time to visit Hal Houle many times and then used his time to work on how to apply what he learned from Hal. It was the critics here that motivated Stan to make a DVD. It was Stan's wherewithal and determination that led him to keep improving and refining it and that led to a second dvd on the subject. And still he didn't stop and has written a book on the subject with more refinements to the point where, in Stan's words, he has solved CTE. He has been there for CTE students the whole way. Anyone can contact Stan and discuss any part of the DVDs and the book.
Now I get it that you think that ALL of that effort is wasted because you think that Hal Houle and the systems he taught are not valid. And you think that Stan is a snake-oil salesman. But the fact is that Stan is a top notch BCA and PBIA certified instructor. He is a 720 speed player whose son is a multi-time national champion. As a coach Stan is excellent and he has coached and instructed many professional players, including some who were publicly not supportive of aiming systems.
So, the fact is that CTE works incredibly well and any information that is new which you mock as "service packs" is just refinements to the process in support of the continued teaching and learning of CTE. I find it to admirable that Stan has done this. He literally could have quit after DVD one and that would have been enough to still provide an amazing amount of great instruction for those wanting to improve their aiming accuracy. Instead he published revisions to the process as he discovered them and kept his students informed of the state of the art in CTE aiming. From a cost standpoint that is lot of extra expense for no extra revenue. Yet he did it anyway for the benefit of those who bought the first DVD and continued the honorable dissemination of new information and revisions after the release of the second DVD.
Now with the book he is available for anyone who asks for help. As a companion to the book he made a series of videos going over each step of the process in detail.
People who learn CTE play better. CTE is not objective and does not work the way the inventor thinks it does.
Both statements can be true. It is not proof that CTE does anything any differently than any other aiming system. It's like saying the patient died of covid but in reality he died by getting hit by a bus and happened to have covid.
Dude, we can present slow motion videos and close up pictures of the shooters' eyes, stance and movement and they don't show any kind of that stuff in the service packs , YOU WILL STILL insist they are happening because they hide it so well . You argument cannot lose . Even if it can't be proven . The only proof is the claim . " Are you calling them a liar ?" Will be your next offense .
We don't need contact points but then videos show they do sometimes . Defense would " how do you know what they are looking at while bending down?" ≥
Billions of people believe some dude flew to heaven on a white horse . Billions believe some dude rose from the dead after 3 days. Hundreds of millions believe a Jewish dude spent years in Utah . There are no proofs of it . If you believe in it, it's called faith . Some would call it lunacy.
An expert and professional opinion from Mark Wilson would not be good enough . Along with his slow motion videos and still photos .
CTE was the nuts BEFORE you learned how to use it properly.
It became the nuts after the first dvd. Became the nuts after the second DVD.
Became the nuts after more follow-up videos .
Then the book and the service packs .
Also, service packs FIX THE BUGS IN THE PROGRAMS more than improvements .
If the program has no bugs , it won't have service packs .
Improvements would be on the next version .
If the program has no bugs , it won't have service packs .
Improvements would be on the next version .
This is the problem I have always had. Hal invented something that all the real players used super secretly. If it was so good why did it take another guy 15 years to improve it?
Service packs are fixes to bugs in existing systems. Generally service packs are released by developing companies that discovered flaws after initial release of a product. Case in point is some Windows operating systems. If you call support for a problem, the first thing they'll ask you is what service packs you have installed. (released fixes to known problems)
You can certainly consider them 'improvements', as they should in theory make the initial release work better. However it's not a bonus but just a fix to make it do what it was supposed to do in the first place. Another equal comparison would be a recall on say your car's seat belts. Yes after the seat belt is 'fixed' it will work better than it did, but when you bought the car didn't you already believe the seat belts should work correctly..?
So yes, saying the system required a service pack is an insult. That is if you think the product out of the gate should have done what it claimed to do. A perfectly good system should not require service packs, aka: fixes.
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ok, then call them updates. Either way, it is making something better. If you have something good and there is a problem that needs to be corrected then a good builder corrects the problem on the existing product and for all subsequently made products. The MAIN point here is that Stan didn't take something and dump it on the market with no continuous improvement and study.
There is no such thing as a perfectly good system created by man. No matter what things can always be improved and since they can be improved then they were not perfect when created.
the key word is SERVICE. Stan provides the SERVICE for his students in the form of updates and improvements.
Regarding seatbelts, of course you EXPECT that they should work as designed. The car manufacturer and the engineers all thought it worked as designed when they built and sold the car. IF a flaw is discovered then they fix it and the fix is implemented for all cars going forward.
But, that's not really the point. The point is that Joey is spending his time INSULTING as you agree with him that he is DENIGRATING CTE and DENIGRATING Stan Shuffett, denigrating Hal Houle, denigrating EVERY PERSON who uses and is learning CTE, denigrating EVERY INSTRUCTOR who teaches CTE and related systems. DENIGRATING every professional player who says that they use CTE aiming.
And furthermore the updates/improvements are NOT bug fixes. They are literally ways to get even more accurately lined up than the previously awesome way to do it. The ONLY actual "fixes" ever put out were corrections when directions were misstated, such as saying this shot is A-inside when actually A-outside is the solution, or typos.
So Joey is trying to insult and in fact it's NOT an insult because the supplier is providing ongoing material support for the product he put out.
As opposed to say someone who puts out an aiming system and charges $25 for it and never bothers to continue developing and testing. Someone who leaves the industry and provides no support would be an example of an orphan method that MIGHT actually need more study and refinement but without someone doing that most ordinary users who are themselves not developers will be left with questions.
Stan on the other hand has always been available to anyone. Even Joey and you, without any need to purchase anything from him. Why that isn't applauded is beyond me. Agree with the efficacy of the system or not the commitment should be recognized. Calling someone a snake-oil salesman because you simply do not think that what they offer works is no different than me calling Joey a hack cuemaker because I don't like the color of his cues.
My point is that Joey and all the other knockers here are not contributing to the growth of pool when they spend time trying to tear down those that are using baseless claims and insults. I HATE Mike Hoang with every fiber of my being. I think that he is a criminal, based on the crime he committed against me and I think that the moves he makes are super shady. But I applaud his recent activity to arrange big matches and big tournaments. He is helping to keep this sport going and as a player and fan of pool I can recognize that and don't let my hate cause me to follow him around online where he is active with these matches and promotions and denigrate him by airing my grievances in those places.
Saying that a system doesn't work is not the same as proving that it doesn't. If Joey and others want to REALLY kill CTE then they need to prove that it doesn't work. But that requires more work than simply thinking of new ways to insult anyone who uses CTE aiming. Joey can wake up, fire off some insults, feel really good that he thought of "service packs" as an insult and go about his day savoring the "zinger" he threw. But that doesn't help this sport at all. You would think that a tip repairman would be out there encouraging everyone to play as much as possible, try everything, practice CTE until you need a new tip, give discounts to CTE users to encourage them to play enough to need tips more often. One would think that a person would easily see the synergies available.
Oh, but wait, this is a MORAL thing right? Joey, et al.... thinks that CTE is bogus and a waste of time/money to mess with and so ethically he is honor-bound to denigrate the method and all who teach and learn it. Joey thinks that people SHOULD play as much as possible but they should be doing drills and practicing whatever Joey's favorite "famous" instructor tells them to do. Well, then in that case we are back to PROVING that CTE is bogus so that all that needs to be done every time a CTE discussion pops up is to link to the proof. Wouldn't a person who honestly believes as Joey does and who thinks he MUST knock CTE and CTE teachers/users be also honor-bound to create that evidence? If that person is actually honest?
I mean, for myself personally, I would learn it and dissect the shit out of it so that I could clearly demonstrate where and why it is bogus if I had the same conviction as Joey and the Knockers. What a great name for a 60s cover band...... tonight only Joey and the Knockers will be performing their greatest hits from their only album, CTE Don't Work. Featuring the smooth sounds on Subconscious Adjustment, the clear lines, and different viewpoints on the catchy Objection Perception. And of course, containing the classic Ain't No Angle Wide Enough.
Does anyone read what I write?
Some do,
"All that said, I get the basic CTE with pivot approach, but have struggled with knowing whether I'm looking at a 15 or a 30, or a 30 or a 45...where are the boundaries? I may have made a break through last weekend just by chance after From what I've read of your comments on it"
So, despite your insults and bullying ways and your "gang" of knockers, there are plenty of people who want to learn CTE and are interested in seeing if it improves their aiming ability.
And thanks to the band I have coined Joey and the Knockers I have been motivated to use my resources to promote CTE far and wide. I sincerely hope that every time you see CTE mentioned that you get upset, even subconsciously, and you think of your role in causing people like me to promote it to a much higher degree than they would be inclined to do so otherwise.
What's kind of cool is that you have no idea of the activity surrounding CTE and how well it is spreading. With the right marketing boost, you won't be able to turn around without CTE in your face and the knocker gang can wear themselves out trying to repeat their knocks like the broken record that they actually are.
And I don't mean writing long posts. I do that for myself and the readers. Your inability/unwillingness to read and study anything that isn't spoon-fed to you is why you don't understand the CTE objective aiming process. Your apparent laziness is why you and the rest of the Knockers won't produce any credible rebuttal to the claims CTE makes much less get off your asses and take it to the table. So there is ZERO chance that your small gang of circle-jerkers will out-market CTE even if I did nothing extra to promote it. Because CTE users take it to the table, learn the process to use the tool, hone their skill in using the tool, and get the benefit of making more shots and being confident that they are on the correct shot line. So while you are talking, they are chalking.
You keep motivating pj chgo and I will keep creating.
Both can be true certainly.
Other statements that can be true.
CTE is objective from the user's perspective.
CTE provides a clear step-by-step process using objective connections to lead the user to the shot line.
CTE provides the correct shot line more often than many other systems.
CTE does do things differently than many other aiming systems.
CTE is easier to learn in person than through a forum where every attempt to discuss the process in peace devolves into a shitty flamewar.
It has yet to be demonstrated that CTE provides the shot line. The patient with covid died but covid didn't kill him. The player pocketed the ball while using CTE but CTE did not give the shot line to the player. Hint: The player did by himself.
He coached both players .
And his slowmo video of Landon shows nothing of that service pack .
And your physical proof he did=ZERO.
Mark shows how to properly setup and shoot .
Compared to your videos of using magic , it's an Oscar winner .
But, you're the expert . So, Mark is wrong .
Wait, is it disservice if I tell people to watch Mark's videos and watch yours instead ?
Again, the proof is only the player's statements that they follow the process and adopt the shot line given by the process. We can chicken/egg this to infinity but it doesn't change the dynamic. Colloquially, "the proof is on the table". Pool is a results-based activity. People simply feel much better when they are able to pocket more balls and win more matches and place high in tournaments. So any time a player reports that the CTE method takes them to the shot line what they are saying is that by following the process they are getting results that are satisfactory and pleasing to them. One can make assumptions about how CTE works in regards to the conscious and subconscious but one cannot PROVE those assumptions. In the absence of such proof/disproof what we are left with is to analyze results.
IF a player is using ANY aiming method that is defined as a process then they are NOT getting to the shot line by themselves. They are using a tool to assist them. No different than if I use a ratchet to take a bolt off. Did I take the bolt off? Yes I did but not without the assistance of a tool specifically designed for that purpose.
You made statements that COULD be true as did I.
Do you know what the memory palace is? It is part of a technique to improve the memorization of things, names, lists of numbers, etc... it is a completely mental technique in that the instructions on the process are not accompanied by any kind of visible physical activity.
The ONLY proof that it works is through the results demonstrated by the people who use it. Those people are far more skilled at remembering lists of items than the average person. Is it possible that every person who claims to use the memory palace technique is lying about it and they are not actually using that technique? Sure it is possible. Is it probable that they are doing so? No, it isn't probable. It is highly IMPROBABLE that a person who tests with average ability to remember lists of things is going to improve dramatically AFTER learning the memory palace technique by some other mechanism and even more improbable that many people would do so.
What video? What "service pack", what OPINION. So you are now claiming that Landon Shuffett, the son of Stan Shuffett, was not using CTE aiming when he claimed that he was? You are calling Landon and Stan both liars?
Did Mark Wilson say that Landon was not using CTE?
You're really hard to follow here, maybe you don't even realize the incoherency you display. You said that even the OPINION of a certain instructor isn't enough but enough FOR WHAT? OPINION ON WHAT? How to aim? Provide the slow-motion video that you are referring to and we can discuss the content but it sounds to me like you are drawing conclusions that are not supported. I believe I have commented on everything you have presented in the past couple months but if I missed something please link to it.
And, it's ok pal. I am making notes as you ramble. You're great for ONE THING in this discussion. Motivation to respond to your claims with videos that include the players you accuse of lying. I will say in the videos that Joey Bautista says you are lying about your use of CTE and get their answers so that you can enjoy those answers every time I post links to those videos.
Tell us what he did before he went down on the shot .
I didn't accuse them of lying. I accused you. You really have a vag .
You want me to say that to your face ?