Cue Ball Behind Head String

jgpool

jgpool

Cue ball draw with this?
Silver Member
1). When you have cue ball in hand behind the head string, does the object ball that is your target have to be completely over the head string or most of it over the head string? I cannot find this in the BCA Rules.

2). When you have ball in hand behind the head string can you place the cue ball partially over the head string or does it have to be completely in the kitchen?

Thanks in advance.
 
Where the ball touches the cloth is what determines in or out of the kitchen. That goes for cue ball and object ball.
According to BCA:
When the shooter has the cue ball in hand behind the head string and all the legal object balls are behind the head string, he may request the legal object ball nearest the head string to be spotted. If two or more balls are equal distance from the head string, the shooter may designate which of the equidistant balls is to be spotted. An object ball that rests exactly on the head string is playable.
 
The cue ball BASE must be behind the line. The object ball base can be on the line. If the object ball base is on the line, you may cut the object ball back to a head pocket.
 
From the BCAPL rule book.

Position of Ball
When a ball is resting on the bed of the table, its position is determined by its base.

Kitchen
The area of the table between the head string and the head cushion. Also referred to as the area “behind the line” or "behind the head string". The kitchen does not include the head string

.http://www.playcsipool.com/bcapl-rules.html
 
I prefer the same rule for both cue ball and object ball
if the ball touches the line it is back,including the cue ball
 
deanoc said:
I prefer the same rule for both cue ball and object ball if the ball touches the line it is back,including the cue ball
Click to expand...

Well, OK, but that is not the rule. I think it's best to play by the official rules and not what each player prefers.

But practically the only time the on-the-line in-or-out rule comes up is when a ball has been spotted at 14.1. "Exactly" on the line otherwise is a very rare event.
 
Funny how some things just get to us . This happens to be one of the topics that
really irks me. How for the life of me, people can play "the entire ball has to be over the line" as opposed to the base of the ball is beyond me.

The logic is simple.

1. You can (AND SHOULD) draw a line on the table designating the head string.

2. You can't draw line an inch an an eighth off the table in mid air.

3. When there is the ability to physically see the base of the ball, as well as the ability to physically see the drawn line on the table, and physically see where those two objects touch, it is FAR more accurate to use those two markers, than it is to guesstimate where the equator of a ball touches an imaginary force field in mid air that runs perpendicular to the head string.

Even an idiot should realize that base of the ball is the logical way to determine if a ball is or isn't over the head string.

But ... we still don't draw the head string line, we still don't draw the rack outline and we still don't draw the line through the rack to the foot string center to guide the placement of balls that have to be spotted.

Everyone carries tip tappers, chalk, and various pool accessories, perhaps one of the things in everyone's tool bag should be a piece of soapstone, or tailors chalk which both easily clean off the table. That way you could lightly mark the table before you play, and wipe it off with a damp cloth from the restroom before you leave.
 
Here's another twist to all this....

Let's say the base of the target object ball is on the line (or just slightly outside). If you line up the cue ball in the kitchen and hit a draw shot the cue ball may never cross the line - thus it's not a legal shot. So, the entire target object ball needs to be outside the line? But if you follow and the cue ball crosses the line then it's OK?
 
I'm sorry in advance if this sounds like nit picking but officially there are no BCA rules anymore. There is BCAPL which recognizes its own rules but the BCA officially recognizes the WPA rules. In fact, there are differences between BCAPL rules and BCA/WPA rules.

That said, what can happen with BIH behind the head-string is different. In BCAPL, you must always shoot at a ball that is outside the kitchen. In WPA, you may shoot at a ball inside the kitchen so long as contact occurs outside the kitchen.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I'm sorry in advance if this sounds like nit picking but officially there are no BCA rules anymore. There is BCAPL which recognizes its own rules but the BCA officially recognizes the WPA rules. In fact, there are differences between BCAPL rules and BCA/WPA rules.

That said, what can happen with BIH behind the head-string is different. In BCAPL, you must always shoot at a ball that is outside the kitchen. In WPA, you may shoot at a ball inside the kitchen so long as contact occurs outside the kitchen.
Click to expand...

I think in both sets of rules the first ball you contact can be behind the line as long as the cue ball hits a cushion over the line. (BCAPL rule 1-36) WPA doesn't actually require that you contact a cushion as long as you have crossed over the line, so a masse shot out and back is legal. It's hard to imagine a situation where you would want to do the masse shot, though.

I see that the BCAPL has an additional rule that you are not permitted to first contact a rail in the kitchen when you have ball in hand. I have a hard time thinking of when you would want to do that, but it's possible that you might. Why make it illegal, though?
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think in both sets of rules the first ball you contact can be behind the line as long as the cue ball hits a cushion over the line. (BCAPL rule 1-36) WPA doesn't actually require that you contact a cushion as long as you have crossed over the line, so a masse shot out and back is legal. It's hard to imagine a situation where you would want to do the masse shot, though.
Click to expand...

That's not exactly how I interpret the WPA rule and I thought we clarified that in previous discussions but correct me if I'm wrong. This WPA rule seems to allow shooting at an object ball that rests in the kitchen so long as the point of contact is outside the kitchen. No masse, no kick. I can just cut the ball in. Is that not right?

6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.
The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game. If such shot is intentional, it is also unsportsmanlike conduct.
Click to expand...
 
Bob Jewett said:
It's hard to imagine a situation where you would want to do the masse shot, though.

I have a hard time thinking of when you would want to do that, but it's possible that you might. Why make it illegal, though?
Click to expand...

I do agree with your opinion on both of these examples. Doing a masse with BIH in kitchen to return to the kitchen or contacting a rail before crossing the head string doesn't have to be illegal. Not only can I not think of a sane reason to do either, I would welcome my opponents to try. When determining the legality of a shot, it should first be established that the shooter possesses some sort of advantage in executing it. In your citations, I only see disaster happening about 99.9999999999999% of the time.
 
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