Cue buyer etiquette?

bsarlo

B-Lock
Silver Member
How often is too often to call a cuemaker?

Here's why I ask...(and please bear with me)

I used to shoot pretty regularly when I lived in Phoenix. I didn't know too much about cues. My first cue was a Players because that's all I could afford. I started shooting better and started spending more time (a lot more time) at the pool hall near my work. I met a lot of good players and one of the older guys had a buddy who was kind enough to make me a deal on his old Meucci. It's a pretty nice cue, but I always envied my friends who had custom cues because I couldn't afford them.
Then I moved and stopped playing altogether for four years. I recently started playing again here in Washington. So I decided to save up for my first custom. (whew...thanks for reading this far. I'm getting there...)

I found a cue online that I absolutely fell in love with. The lady selling it was very kind and helpful. She actually taught me a lot about different joint types and woods. I did not have enough for her asking price and, from shopping around a bit (which led me to this amazing forum), I thought she may be asking too much. She was super nice still and lowered her price, but it was just more than I could afford. So...I called the cue maker to see if he remembered making the cue and if it was worth it to save up and pay her price. He did not sound happy that I called him. I explained my situation. (You could probably imagine from the length of this post so far that his patience was pretty thin listening to my story) When I told him who was selling the cue and gave him the cue's details, he told me that the lady selling it was a thief and a liar and that he would just make one for me. I was amazed and overwhelmed. So we started discussing different woods and inlays. He got really excited about the cue. At one point he called me four times in one afternoon to tell me his ideas for the cue. That sold it for me. If he was that excited about my cue, I would let him do whatever he wanted and pay him whatever he thought it would cost. Eventually we agreed on a price and the estimated completion date was some time in June. This was in December.

So now I'm super excited. I want to call every day to find out what he's done, but I have forced myself to wait one month between calls. I don't mean to be annoying or impatient. I truly am just interested in what he's done, how he did it, what else he is planning on doing. I wish I could sit and watch him work. I know the cue will be done in June and I don't expect it earlier so I am not calling to see if it will be finished ahead of schedule. My last call, last week, was because I couldn't remember how many points he was putting on the cue. I was not wanting to change the cue at all. Just couldn't remember if it was four or six points.

He seemed really annoyed.

Was I way out of line to call so often? Do you as cuemakers ever call your customers to let them know how things are going? Or is it customary to give a due date and then call when the cue is done?

I want to emphasize that I understand where he is coming from and can see how it would be annoying to answer silly questions from some impatient kid. I feel like he's gone out of his way for me by calling me with his own ideas for the cue design at the start. --EDIT-- I guess he did not get the pictures taken. He said that it takes too much time out of his other builds --EDIT-- I believe him since he has no cell phone or computer. He's an amazing guy who builds amazing cues and I don't want to piss him off any further.

I also don't want to make the same mistakes with my next cuemaker.

Any and all input is appreciated. I want to be a great customer. I want my next cuemaker to be glad to do business with me.

Thanks for reading.
Brian
 
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3kushn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sit back, relax and don't call till July.
Its way too early for progress reports and pictures.
He'll call you when there's something to talk about
 

West Point 1987

On the Hill, Out of Gas
Silver Member
I'd wait at least two months before asking for an update...I was a pain in that I changed things four times, but very early in the build, so I didn't waste his time. Then I sat on my hands and waited. Sent an email asking for an update or picture of the forearm after about two months, got a response with pics about a week later. I did all my contact with him via email, which he usually responded to within two or three days. They're busy folks, you've got to give them time to have something to report to you! There are stages in the build where some time goes by and nothing signficant will be done, waiting on epoxy to set or stuff to rest between turns, etc./. Calling every three or four weeks might be a little annoying. That said, I'm sure they've seen worse!

If I were you, I'd stick to email mostly and I'd wait until about June to start asking for an update...six months is a reasonable wait time for a build (start to finish), and he may not have a lot to tell you until then.

Good luck and congrats on ordering your first true custom cue!
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
How often is too often to call a cuemaker?

Here's why I ask...(and please bear with me)

I used to shoot pretty regularly when I lived in Phoenix. I didn't know too much about cues. My first cue was a Players because that's all I could afford. I started shooting better and started spending more time (a lot more time) at the pool hall near my work. I met a lot of good players and one of the older guys had a buddy who was kind enough to make me a deal on his old Meucci. It's a pretty nice cue, but I always envied my friends who had custom cues because I couldn't afford them.
Then I moved and stopped playing altogether for four years. I recently started playing again here in Washington. So I decided to save up for my first custom. (whew...thanks for reading this far. I'm getting there...)

I found a cue online that I absolutely fell in love with. The lady selling it was very kind and helpful. She actually taught me a lot about different joint types and woods. I did not have enough for her asking price and, from shopping around a bit (which led me to this amazing forum), I thought she may be asking too much. She was super nice still and lowered her price, but it was just more than I could afford. So...I called the cue maker to see if he remembered making the cue and if it was worth it to save up and pay her price. He did not sound happy that I called him. I explained my situation. (You could probably imagine from the length of this post so far that his patience was pretty thin listening to my story) When I told him who was selling the cue and gave him the cue's details, he told me that the lady selling it was a thief and a liar and that he would just make one for me. I was amazed and overwhelmed. So we started discussing different woods and inlays. He got really excited about the cue. At one point he called me four times in one afternoon to tell me his ideas for the cue. That sold it for me. If he was that excited about my cue, I would let him do whatever he wanted and pay him whatever he thought it would cost. Eventually we agreed on a price and the estimated completion date was some time in June. This was in December.

So now I'm super excited. I want to call every day to find out what he's done, but I have forced myself to wait one month between calls. I don't mean to be annoying or impatient. I truly am just interested in what he's done, how he did it, what else he is planning on doing. I wish I could sit and watch him work. I know the cue will be done in June and I don't expect it earlier so I am not calling to see if it will be finished ahead of schedule. My last call, last week, was because I couldn't remember how many points he was putting on the cue. I was not wanting to change the cue at all. Just couldn't remember if it was four or six points.

He seemed really annoyed.

Was I way out of line to call so often? Do you as cuemakers ever call your customers to let them know how things are going? Or is it customary to give a due date and then call when the cue is done?

I want to emphasize that I understand where he is coming from and can see how it would be annoying to answer silly questions from some impatient kid. I feel like he's gone out of his way for me by calling me with his own ideas for the cue design at the start. He even agreed to take pics along the way for me, which he assured me he never does. I believe him since he has no cell phone or computer. He's an amazing guy who builds amazing cues and I don't want to piss him off any further.

I also don't want to make the same mistakes with my next cuemaker.

Any and all input is appreciated. I want to be a great customer. I want my next cuemaker to be glad to do business with me.Thanks for reading.
Brian

you are already thinking about your next cue (from someone else) and you havent hit/played with this one yet???
just askin
p.s. im not a cuemaker but a player not a collector either
 

Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great thread from both the cuemaker and cuebuyer perspective! I and a well known cuemaker have designed my first high end cue recently. Two months ago the project got underway and I have forced myself to leave him alone. It's not easy because I am like many other folks and would love to see pics or get updates, but the reality is he is building my cue at the same time he is doing other cues. The nature of cuemaking and turning woods is time consuming and you can only do so much with wood at one time. Patience on the cuemakers end is imperative and therefore has to be on the cuebuyers end as well..
 

bsarlo

B-Lock
Silver Member
...
If I were you, I'd stick to email mostly and I'd wait until about June to start asking for an update...six months is a reasonable wait time for a build (start to finish), and he may not have a lot to tell you until then
...
Thanks. Email would be ideal for the both of us. I could send a message whenever and he could reply when convenient for him. Unfortunately, he doesn't own a computer or a smart phone.
 

pooln8r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First sorry about the long post. I'm not a cue maker and am only answering because, I like you, am fairly new to having customs made and have wanted to call almost daily. I wanted to do so to quiet my excitement as well as my curious mind as to whether the cue maker and I are on the same page about the design as well as where in the process my cue currently is. There has to be a trust established at some point between you and the maker. The updates and pictures definitely help to develop trust and subsequent dealings are made easier that way. My first experience wasn't perfect but the cue came out sweet although mostly but not exactly like I wanted it too. My second experience with a different cue maker was dead on! I drew a picture, sent specs via email, a couple initial conversations, monthly status requests on my part with periodic milestone updates from the cue maker and from that came a perfect representation of not only what I had drawn on my computer but it exceeded my expectations in playability. I can't wait to see how my second cue from him turns out.

I do 2nd what 3kushn said as in doing that you put it out of your mind until after the fair agreed upon completion date and allow the cue maker to work as much as possible on your cue. I like this piece of advice after working with a few cue makers but I just can't follow it as I get just too excited over what's being made for me and absolutely understand that without a previous experience with the cue maker in question that you will need to build that trust to quiet your mind as well. I do try like you to keep the calls or emails to once a month or even less often to allow some actual work to be done. Of course I slip up once in a while but who doesn't.

Something I think that might curb your calls when you realize that most of the time you're waiting there's not much to report other than the wood is now a few tenths or hundredths of an inch thinner than it was the last time you called for a status. What helped me most was that cue makers have milestones in their process which are update and/or picture opportunities. For example, veneers glued, forearm assembled, rings built, handle attached, inlays laid out and inlays installed with the final step of finish applied. I now keep track of the milestones as I'm told or better shown their completion which keeps my excitement at bay while awaiting updates of the next step in the build process. I have however worked with the maker I'm currently working with before and have that trust that it will turn out right, meaning not just a great player but as close to what I had designed initially as his process will allow which I now know will be better than my drawing.

I would also ask the cue maker about his/her process so you know about what to expect in reaction to frequent or infrequent calls and what their level of customer service will best accommodate. Some are very excited, almost more excited then you to start building the cue and then they want to be left to the work while others are happy to take your call almost on a daily basis from start to end of the build. It's up to you and the cue maker but I think the hands off way is best if the design is already clearly in place with you both on the same page about the build. That's the thing that got me to stop contacting more often then might be warranted is when I feel like I have confirmation that something I wanted done a certain way is already in place. I think it's all about trusting that you picked the right person to do the job and to produce the design you have so much personally invested in having creating.

I think you may have dodged a bullet on the online sale too. Try searching the AZ forum for that persons name and see if it comes up. I'll bet if it's who I'm thinking you'll find that you are happy you went with the original builder.

Have a good one,

Kevin
 

bsarlo

B-Lock
Silver Member
you are already thinking about your next cue (from someone else) and you havent hit/played with this one yet???
just askin
p.s. im not a cuemaker but a player not a collector either

Come on...Do you ever look at the pics in the Cue Forum or the Wanted/For Sale Forum?? How could I not want another? :D There are so many talented cue makers and different cues and woods that I definitely have the collector bug. I am not worried in the least about the hit of my new cue. From what I've read, he is among the top cuemakers for playability. My friend Crash owns one of his cues and I will hopefully make it back to AZ in April to try his out. Also, I mostly picked this cuemaker for his unique woods. Now that I've been on this forum for a while and am learning about new cuemakers, I'm considering a Sugartree next. I sure do love those cool, burly, figured woods!! Thanks for the reply.
 

scdiveteam

Rick Geschrey
Silver Member
Hi,

When I am building a custom order I like to send progress pics to the client/player so they see what is going on. It keeps them in touch and stops the phone calls.

Cue making should not be rushed and certain things take time and passes on wood over time. If you are buying a ordered cue you don't want the process rushed.

That's why if feel that you are always better off buying a cue that is already built that you can hit and inspect.

JMO,

Rick
 

bsarlo

B-Lock
Silver Member
...
I think you may have dodged a bullet on the online sale too. Try searching the AZ forum for that persons name and see if it comes up. I'll bet if it's who I'm thinking you'll find that you are happy you went with the original builder.
...
I definitely looked her up, even though it seems there are a few names to look up for her :confused:, and I guarantee it is the same woman you are thinking about. Not many nice things were said about her on this forum. Although, as I said in the original post, she was very nice and extremely helpful to me. She did knock quite a bit of cash off her asking price which was kind. I am definitely glad I called the builder. I kind of owe that woman a thank you. I feel like, because of her, I got to cut in line on the waiting list (disclaimer:don't know if there is a waiting list). I don't want to call her though because she may want to know more about the story.

...
Cue making should not be rushed and certain things take time and passes on wood over time. If you are buying a ordered cue you don't want the process rushed.
...

Thanks Rick! I love your cues by the way. I googled your company and the first link was to the pics you posted in November. Very nice work. I think it's cool that you approach cue building from an engineering perspective. You've found a way to merge art with science that non-scientific, art-lovers can appreciate.

One of the reasons I want to call everyday is to find out what he's doing/done. I think it would be awesome if a cuemaker would video or blog about the steps taken to complete a cue. I find the whole process facinating and would love it even if I was told "Took off a few millimeters today. Now I'm going to let it recoup for a few days."
 
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ridewiththewind

♥ Hippie Hustler ♥
Silver Member
I definitely looked her up, even though it seems there are a few names to look up for her :confused:, and I guarantee it is the same woman you are thinking about. Not many nice things were said about her on this forum. Although, as I said in the original post, she was very nice and extremely helpful to me. She did knock quite a bit of cash off her asking price which was kind. I am definitely glad I called the builder. I kind of owe that woman a thank you. I feel like, because of her, I got to cut in line on the waiting list (disclaimer:don't know if there is a waiting list). I don't want to call her though because she may want to know more about the story.



Thanks Rick! I love your cues by the way. I googled your company and the first link was to the pics you posted in November. Very nice work. I think it's cool that you approach cue building from an engineering perspective. You've found a way to merge art with science that non-scientific, art-lovers can appreciate.

One of the reasons I want to call everyday is to find out what he's doing/done. I think it would be awesome if a cuemaker would video or blog about the steps taken to complete a cue. I find the whole process facinating and would love it even if I was told "Took off a few millimeters today. Now I'm going to let it recoup for a few days."

Daily updates is a bit much to expect. Remember, the odds are high yours is not the only cue being built by the maker currently. Every time they have to take time to answer phone calls and emails is time being taken away from actually building the cues. This means it takes longer to get them completed and delivered.

At some point you need to just let the process happen, and trust that the maker will get in touch with you, should the need arise. I wouldn't start getting ansy until perhaps early August. Many makers hit a few shows a year...and often that time away from the shop doesn't get factored in as accurately as one hopes. Seems like every time I have had a cue near ready for completion, SBE happens and delays delivery by 3-4 weeks. The cues, when finally delivered, were always worth the slight delay.

And yes....the very first time you custom order a cue can be the longest wait of your life...LoL! It gets better as you do it more often. :grin:
 

BLACKHEARTCUES

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"I am not worried in the least about the hit of my new cue. From what I've read, he is among the top cuemakers for playability."

Sorry to burst your bubble, but every cuemakers creations play differently than others. If you like the way the Meucci played, I think you may be disappointed with your new one. Meucci cues play differently than any other. Mentioning the "Meucci name, will make most cuemakers shudder & say "mine will never play like that". If your cuemaker is on the phone or computer he is not working & therefore losing MONEY. Warning...if you bother him too much he may just tell you to go somewhere else, for your cue. HOPE THIS HELPS...JER
 

bsarlo

B-Lock
Silver Member
BLACKHEARTCUES;3503249 ... Sorry to burst your bubble said:
Nope. Don't like the Meucci. I liked the look of the cue more than anything at first. It's pretty beat up now though.

038.jpg

040.jpg

I have adjusted to its play over the years. I have hit other styles of cues so I know the dramatic difference I'm in for and I look forward to it. I doubt I will be disappointed about my new cue's play though. The cue maker's name gets mentioned on every "who makes the best playing cue" thread that I've ever read here.

Do you really think that a cuemaker would not sell me a cue that I had a part in designing because I call too often? That never crossed my mind. I was, ever so slightly, concerned that he may compromise the quality and detail just get rid of me. If I was that annoying though, I would hope that he would just tell me to stop calling before he would return my deposit and not sell me the cue. Talk about losing money... I guess artists can be tempramental and fickle and can do whatever they like. Although he would be losing a guaranteed revenue that he may or may not make back by reselling the cue. Then again, he probably could get more money out of it...hmmm

I think I'll stop calling. :sorry:
 

CMD

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess artists can be tempramental and fickle and can do whatever they like. Although he would be losing a guaranteed revenue that he may or may not make back by reselling the cue. Then again, he probably could get more money out of it...hmmm

I think I'll stop calling. :sorry:

Welcome to the wonderful world of cue buying....:thumbup:



Communication is the key to cue build. The more you know about yourself and your game, the better the cue "should" be. The more I've learned about myself, the better my builds have become.

I have very little communication with cuemakers on certain builds and tons of communication on others. The old saying "patience is a virtue" could not be truer than going through a cue build. I've made some great friends going through my last few builds. A good friend told me once - it becomes more about the experience than just getting another cue...


I wish you luck and patience,
Chris


Make sure you are happy in the end. Do not feel afraid to speak up if there is something you do not like about the quality of the cue. However, do not start a useless thread here before exhausting all avenues with the Cuemaker first.
 

BLACKHEARTCUES

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I made cues for the past 25 yrs & stayed about 8-12 months behind on my orders. I have indeed told several clients that our relationship was not working & that I would help them find ANOTHER Qmaker. One guy hounded me & even he came to my house, when I stopped answering his calls. Another guy insisted that he be in my shop when I did the inlays....GOODBY.
THANKS ...JER
 

zeeder

Will queue for cues
Silver Member
I feel your pain. My first custom build took around 12 months and my second took about 18 months. Patience is definitely required but progress pics go a long way in tiding you over. My builds were longer than yours but I would wait 3-4 months between e-mails.
 

skierlawyer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To the OP, I know exactly how you feel. I've been very fortunate to have had mostly very positive experiences having cues built. They are the cues in my collection most special to me and the last ones I would consider selling. I've had varying levels of communication with cue builders. With Tascarella, I ordered a cue and spent a fairly long time on the phone ordering the cue initially, then I waited 4 years and he called me to tell me my cue was just about done and to send the final payment. I got my cue and called to thank him and to tell him how pleased I was with the cue. With Ernie Martinez I am talking to him weekly, and visiting him in the shop to see the progress about 2x a month. The best experience you can imagine, I've been lucky enough to get and that is actually watching the cue maker work on your cue.

Try to remain patient, the wait is worth it and the anticipation is a good portion of the fun. I almost always have a cue in the works with someone now and I love always having something to look forward to. It's definitely addictive, as you said there are so many cue makers, so many woods, so many design possibilities that it can never get boring. As time has passed my tastes have changed. I started out only liking old school player cues, and now that I have several I'm now into some of the more new school stuff. I've gotten into fancier cues lately too. I still love the old school stuff, but now my tastes have broadened.

I justify my cue habit by considering my purchases investments. If you buy right and get cues directly from up and coming builders or you become a good customer to where the builder gives you a good deal, you almost always have a cue that appreciates or holds its value.

Remember to play with the cues you get. They are artwork, but also tools. Part of the "art" or the appreciation of a cue is how it plays. The balance, the feel of the handle, the slickness and taper of the shaft, the feel of the hit on hard, soft, center ball, and extreme english shots, the sound it makes when it strikes the ball, how you feel playing it, ect. Even the smell of a cue reveals something of its quality.

I am curious who is building your cue? If you want, just PM me.

Take care and good luck with this cue. Remember to update us when you receive the cue and to post pictures in the gallery.

Brian
 
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