Cue Buying Market Crashed! Fact or Fiction?

skins said:
there are some not so recognized great makers out there so what would any of you consider an acceptable annual production for a "great" makers cue to be deemed "collectible"?
Click to expand...

Collectible is a choice by the cuebuyer. I might buy a Tascarella to play with, while Marcus would buy it to collect; ie make collectible. So maybe Pete makes 25 cues a year (number just for point) to some people they maybe collectible, to some people they are still to be played with. Also I don't think numbers play into it that much. If a guy made one cue a year that was crappy, it wouldn't be as collectible to someone that collects South Wests where the annual production is sometimes over 200.

(I intentionally am omitting anniversary type cues, and high end one offs, that could be considered collectible)

skins said:
i'm also curious to opinions as to the determination that a makers status has reached "great/collectible"?
Click to expand...

The market ie; availability, wait, perception by the masses, secondary market pricing.

JV
 
classiccues said:
Collectible is a choice by the cuebuyer. I might buy a Tascarella to play with, while Marcus would buy it to collect; ie make collectible. So maybe Pete makes 25 cues a year (number just for point) to some people they maybe collectible, to some people they are still to be played with. Also I don't think numbers play into it that much. If a guy made one cue a year that was crappy, it wouldn't be as collectible to someone that collects South Wests where the annual production is sometimes over 200.

(I intentionally am omitting anniversary type cues, and high end one offs, that could be considered collectible)



The market ie; availability, wait, perception by the masses, secondary market pricing.

JV
Click to expand...

i think this answer is too much of a generalization for me. my ? was intended for collectors and buyers to include only great makers. ones where their process of building is great and "thought" process to their work unique. imo there are not many "great" makers out there, beyond the standard 8 or so highly "sought" after ones, where most all aspects of the cue building process are "great" including originality aspects. my ? in mind was intended for such because it's the collectors that controls and sellers that make those markets. i would like opinions from collectors and sellers alike on this. as far the thought of people who buy them to play with or collect it doesn't matter. that's like saying i have a Picasso and i put it in a bank vault and my friend has his hanging on his wall to enjoy so the values are different. all things being the same their worth and collectible aspect on that market is the same. as a collector i also buy what i like but when it comes to the player/collector who owns, lets say more than 2 cues, i'd believe they (i) would think of the collectivity factors more often than not when acquiring more cues. i think most all collectors in this market have an opinion on annual production and factors with it that can "hurt" that aspect of a makers market. i'd like to here them.
 
ohhh! sean

cueaddicts said:
As usual, no intelligent input on a subject....just advertising.
Click to expand...
My input is the market is great! dont despair we are buying and selling better than ever before ,dont attack my intelligence over jealousy! I do wish your sales improve and all others across the board ,the more cues moving and changing hands helps both collectors and resellers!:)
 
cornerstone said:
My input is the market is great! dont despair we are buying and selling better than ever before ,dont attack my intelligence over jealousy! I do wish your sales improve and all others across the board ,the more cues moving and changing hands helps both collectors and resellers!:)
Click to expand...

Oh, there's no despair. Just trying to help other posters understand the dynamics of the present and entire cue market. You can blow smoke up people's ass all you want here on this forum, but everyone knows that a large segment of the cue market is in fact down right now. Hopefully this is just a phase and it will come back across the spectrum.

I appreciate your empathy, but our sales have been great for the limited stuff we're involved in these days. Time and other obligations have slowed us more than anything.

Trust me when I say (to you and to all) that there is absolutely ZERO with respect to you that makes me jealous. You can take that to the bank along with the payments from your fictitious sales ("cuegirl", etc., etc.).

Sean
 
When you talk about a collectable market (I bought & sold guitars for years) when you see non pool players buy cues as a investmant, that is the time cues will go all to hell.
Prices will be inflated and players won't be able to afford blue chip cues, It's already happening with Zambo's, Buskas, Fancy SW's, Schick's, and such, Next Hercek,Tasca, Searing, etc. I hope this does not happen as cues are built and meant to shoot balls with by players........
A word to the wise and get what you want now, while it is still affordable because in my honest opinion the writing is alreay on the wall.......
In 1968 I bought a 1959 Gibson, Les Paul Sunburst out of a pawn Shop for $150 now their $200K....... why? foreign investers wanted a peice of Americana at what ever price they had to pay....... and they had the Do Re Me to spend
 
Last edited:
cueaddicts said:
Oh, there's no despair. Just trying to help other posters understand the dynamics of the present and entire cue market. You can blow smoke up people's ass all you want here on this forum, but everyone knows that a large segment of the cue market is in fact down right now. Hopefully this is just a phase and it will come back across the spectrum.

I appreciate your empathy, but our sales have been great for the limited stuff we're involved in these days. Time and other obligations have slowed us more than anything.

Trust me when I say (to you and to all) that there is absolutely ZERO with respect to you that makes me jealous. You can take that to the bank along with the payments from your fictitious sales ("cuegirl", etc., etc.).

Sean
Click to expand...


Another fine post and on the money!:D
 
cueaddicts said:
Oh, there's no despair. Just trying to help other posters understand the dynamics of the present and entire cue market. You can blow smoke up people's ass all you want here on this forum, but everyone knows that a large segment of the cue market is in fact down right now. Hopefully this is just a phase and it will come back across the spectrum.

I appreciate your empathy, but our sales have been great for the limited stuff we're involved in these days. Time and other obligations have slowed us more than anything.

Trust me when I say (to you and to all) that there is absolutely ZERO with respect to you that makes me jealous. You can take that to the bank along with the payments from your fictitious sales ("cuegirl", etc., etc.).

Sean
Click to expand...
well sean , I wish you the best , but when another DEALER attacts me for no reason unprovoked,there must be more to it!as for my fictitious cue sales they shure are booming!and alot of new ones came up today on the site!and keep a eye out 2 manzinos will be here tues and 2 ginacues wed and another fancy black by friday! Great ad!!have a nice day sean and loosen up a bit! If iam selling it is a good thing for all of us! Bill
 
No prob here!

Everything posted yesterday gone today.
Scruggs box veneers
Felini case
Frey sneaky
and Judd Fuller
Still some Scruggs cues left so
Later
Nick
 
I appreciate your viewpoint and candor Sean. There seem to be several segments to the cue market (e.g, high, mid, low, new, used, regional, etc). Glad to hear sales are robust for Bill at Cornerstone. Maybe he deals with a segment of the market that is subject to fewer seasonal and economic fluctuations.

Only if the summer lull were to continue into the winter would I be disappointed and begin to wonder what was going on. I expect cue sales in general to pick up speed from here, heading into the holidays, and then bottom out again late next spring. We'll see what happens. Interesting thread for sure.

Martin

cueaddicts said:
Oh, there's no despair. Just trying to help other posters understand the dynamics of the present and entire cue market. You can blow smoke up people's ass all you want here on this forum, but everyone knows that a large segment of the cue market is in fact down right now. Hopefully this is just a phase and it will come back across the spectrum.

I appreciate your empathy, but our sales have been great for the limited stuff we're involved in these days. Time and other obligations have slowed us more than anything.

Trust me when I say (to you and to all) that there is absolutely ZERO with respect to you that makes me jealous. You can take that to the bank along with the payments from your fictitious sales ("cuegirl", etc., etc.).

Sean
Click to expand...
 
Nick,
A individual will always be able to sell a good product at a good price.
A dealer has higher mark up to cover higher overhead and soft cost that are much higher than you or I have. Also a individual will sell us a cue at better price than he expects to get from a dealer, the "after all if you re-sell my cue at such a high price you can give me more for it" mentality. So in closing I'm saying "you will always be able to sell cues Nick", wether the markets soft or not.
 
I think one of the reasons that the market is down for sub-$1000 cues is the effect of the low deflection shafts on the market. The Predator effect I guess.

It use to be that when you wanted to get a decent hitting cue you had to go custom. Now some people believe that they can slap a low deflection shaft on a low end production cue and it will hit as well as a cue built by a custom cuemaker.

Deflection is all the hype these days.

Or they would just buy a Predator cue since the shaft is most of the cost. (200 just for the shaft so I might as well fork over another 150 and get the whole cue.)

At the last Tri-State event that I watched over 75% of the entries were playing with either a Predator or had a Predator shaft on a production cue.

Now I know I can get a custom cue fitted with a Predator shaft but that just defeats the purpose of getting a custom cue. I mean I could buy a SouthWest or a Scruggs for the 'hit' so why would I change that by slapping a Predator shaft on it?

Just what I see when cruising the local poolrooms and watching local events.
 
Last edited:
More on this....

BrooklynJay said:
I think one of the reasons that the market is down for sub-$1000 cues is the effect of the low deflection shafts on the market. The Predator effect I guess.

It use to be that when you wanted to get a decent hitting cue you had to go custom. Now some people believe that they can slap a low deflection shaft on a low end production cue and it will hit as well as a cue built by a custom cuemaker.

Deflection is the all the hype these days.

Or they would just buy a Predator cue since the shaft is most of the cost. (200 just for the shaft so I might as well fork over another 150 and get the whole cue.)

At the last Tri-State event that I watched over 75% of the entries were playing with either a Predator or had a Predator shaft on a production cue.

Now I know I can get a custom cue fitted with a Predator shaft but that just defeats the purpose of getting a custom cue. I mean I could buy a SouthWest or a Scruggs for the 'hit' so why would I change that by slapping a Predator shaft on it?

Just what I see when cruising the local poolrooms and watching local events.
Click to expand...

My inputs on this. I laughed at the DCC last year as there were tons of Southwest cues for sale. All or it seemed that all were there with 11.5-12.5 mm shafts. The cue dealers and cue buyers have made a significant change where if the shaft isnt 13mm or VERY close they really werent interested.

A buddy was there with me and he only buys very high end JossWest or Barry Szam, and I mentioned that we should just get a predator shaft and to use and get some of these low cost SW cues. He went nuts and said if wanted to hit with a predator he would buy one,,,on and on, (me switching him on wife mode) then back.

As mentioned on here, he is in fact right on some points. Moving a predator shaft from cue to cue, they will not play the same. His point was if I want a JossWest, it is like sacrilidge to put a predator shaft on it.

I on the other hand, just like to get him stirred up and pissed off.

LMAO

Ken
 
Just some rambling from cue retailer.

I think the cue market is a bit stagnant for a lot of reasons. First, the economy. The middle class which supported cue sales in a particular price range has very little disposable income. People that spent $1000 for a nice cue are just buying $300 McDermotts now. 2nd, computer technology. Between the internet reducing average prices on many cues to CNC technology bringing a lot of average woodworkers into the cue market it has changed the economy of cues. More cuemakers= more cues= less money to go around= lower prices to compete. Now anyone that can afford the used lathe and computer cutout machinery wants to be a cuemaker. Every local cuemaker that sells a cue in his pool room takes a sale from a nationally known cue maker or cue company. If he sells online it takes even more away. It used to be in order to find a particular cuemaker you had to go to shows or find a stocking dealer which made it harder to buy. This also made the price a bit higher since you have the overhead of a stocking dealer. Then the internet comes in and you dont know if you are buying a new, used, or factory second, or imported cue, or local cuemaker or whatever with half the guys online and the overall prices start falling. The number of cuemakers increased very quickly and the number of collectors did NOT. With every sale below market value recorded on Ebay for everyone to see. ..it makes it harder for the stocking dealers to compete. So they reduce the price and eventually stop selling certain cues. The quality cuemakers that are still splicing their own cues and selling to a higher market arent affected as much. People that make 6 and 7 figures a year usually have more job security and slowdowns in the economy will not affect them collecting a nice cue that they rarely play with. To them it is just a hobby. Southwest seems to have gotten the formula right. With a long wait time, and devotion of serious players they keep the demand high. Someone was on the ball over there. :) I personally just buy cues that I like. I am not trying to speculate or use them as an investment. I learned a long time ago if that is your motive you are setting yourself up for disappointment many times. I like all the cues that I have bought. I dont really have anything very expensive so I am never stressed out about "investing" in a cue. I know that during the 1980's we sold more expensive cues than any other time. It seemed everyone had money in those days. I miss those days :confused: Today we just sell the chinese import cues for $100 to the average customer. 20 years a go we sold the $100 Vikings to the average customer. Scary that people have the same spending money from a generation ago and havent gotten a raise! Ok I am done rambling now. I have to go to work. :D
 
Very nice post "cueandcushion", and right on the money when it comes to the current cue market and our dismal economy.
 
Snap9 said:
Very nice post "cueandcushion", and right on the money when it comes to the current cue market and our dismal economy.
Click to expand...
Have to agree!
With all the uncertainty most people are just holding on to the cash a bit longer.
 
it's a bubble.

too many cuemakers, and this is a shakeout. with all the new "cuemakers", aided by new technology and access to info, this also puts a strain on materials, ie good quality woods. that plus an overload of crap makes for mediocre cues and the buyer becomes more discressionary with his cash. "just what am i getting for my $1000?"

not to mention the plethora on small cuemakers you never hear about who are doing their own basic cues. they are undercutting all the other low end cuemakers, and the result is some cuemakers can't GIVE their goods away.

the 90's was a prosperous time for everyone, and everyone had cash. now,,,if you're moving cues, you're moving them slower than before, and the only cuemakers left standing are the ones who have something to say. this is as it should be because the glut in the cuemaker business has also resulted in concommitant the dumbing down of consumer discression.

and how many cuemakers who've been living fat off the far east have to come back to the states.
 
Last edited:
The money follows the most sought after cuemakers.
Probably about 90% + of the custom cuemakers are where they're at on the secondary market as they always have been...their cues depreciate in value and many don't have a real "waiting list" and never did on new cues. I do not have any real experience in the off the shelf cues so I can't comment. There are always buyers for the best cues and command more money and there is a waiting list.

When the market is slow on most cues that means there is opportunity to pickup up a real nice cue at a great price.
 
My take on the collectable cue market is that there are more cue collectors leaving the business/hobby of collecting cues than there are new collectors coming into it. Plus, it seems that there are now far fewer cuemakers that are considered ''elite'' and ''collectable'' than before.

Another huge factor, IMO, is that recently the popularity of pool has started to decline, bigtime.
 
Last edited:
Charlie Edwards said:
Another hugh factor, IMO, is that recently the popularity of pool has started to decline, bigtime.
Click to expand...
I had that same discussion with my fiancé the other evening and the comment I also made is that poker is being shown on more channels than ever before (ESPN and other non sport channels).
I will continue to play, hopefully add to my collection and support the sport as best I am able.

Myron
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top