Cue Buying Market Crashed! Fact or Fiction?

[skins]

Collectible. why?

i've seen one post in this thread and some in others mention that some makers do great work but their production is too high. this takes away from these makers being as desirable for collectors. there are some not so recognized great makers out there so what would any of you consider an acceptable annual production for a "great" makers cue to be deemed "collectible"? i'm also curious to opinions as to the determination that a makers status has reached "great/collectible"?

 

[spitzweg5]

Market in Germany the same

Hello,
this is my first post. To the topic here in germany is the same thing. The top of the range cues are moving slowly but moving. But what I found recently is that the players are not buying cues anymore because of the shafts.
Here the prices for the shafts are high and confusing. (Hohmann Universal, Engert McDermott, Ortmann Blue Spot, Souquet Predator ........)
Before they bought an high Production cue or a low till mid priced customs now they all looking for the shafts not for the cues. If you try an predator and OB 1 or McDermott I or Universal, Tiger X, Longoni and so on.... you have to spend a fortune. Easy add up to 500 to 600 $ and you only have shaft not a cue. And still not the garantie that is it what you looking for. For that you could get a nice Schon, Joss or even BCM or Cocker.
Very confusing.
So they all stick to there old cues and testing high end shafts. There is no more money left for cues.

At the moment you can sell more shafts than cues IMO. That is stopping the current market.

greetings from Germany

Klaus

 

[poolplayer2093]

spitzweg5 What's a blue spot shaft?

 

[spitzweg5]

Hello,
Oliver Ortmann is playing Krueger cues they have differnt shafts like Blue spot green spot an so on.
It the same old story about deflection and quality.

They not bad, hard hitting medium till low deflection good production quality.
Greeings from Germany.
Klaus

 

[larrynj1]

i have a collectible cue - it's a meucci - rolls straight when assembled or separately.

 

[Craig Fales]

I'll throw in my .02 now....It seems that any Larry, Curly, and Moe can set up a website and call themselves a cue dealer these days...the saturation in "dealers" has to have the same effect as having 17 Ford dealers in Portland, Oregon compared to only 4 in the city of Las Vegas which happens to have twice the population base as Portland.

disclaimer: asiasdad is not a cue dealer nor does he work in a Ford dealership

That's ironic...when I lived there in Vegas I counted the number of McDonalds there....81 is what I counted in the yellow pages... I too will be pumping out custom cues...except that I probably won't put out no more than 12 1 of 1's...I'll also offer up some j/b and jump cues aswell...right now I've been chewing up cues trying to get the bugs worked out.... However I have managed to get a beautiful purpleheart cue almost done, all is needed is to finish the joint collar and buttcap...it's going to have a lizard patterned burgundy leather wrap...
________

 

[TATE]

Hello,
this is my first post. To the topic here in germany is the same thing. The top of the range cues are moving slowly but moving. But what I found recently is that the players are not buying cues anymore because of the shafts.
Here the prices for the shafts are high and confusing. (Hohmann Universal, Engert McDermott, Ortmann Blue Spot, Souquet Predator ........)
Before they bought an high Production cue or a low till mid priced customs now they all looking for the shafts not for the cues. If you try an predator and OB 1 or McDermott I or Universal, Tiger X, Longoni and so on.... you have to spend a fortune. Easy add up to 500 to 600 $ and you only have shaft not a cue. And still not the garantie that is it what you looking for. For that you could get a nice Schon, Joss or even BCM or Cocker.
Very confusing.
So they all stick to there old cues and testing high end shafts. There is no more money left for cues.

At the moment you can sell more shafts than cues IMO. That is stopping the current market.

greetings from Germany

Klaus

Welcome to the Klub, Klaus! Thanks for the information.

Interesting angle: Why buy a custom cue when you can buy the shaft you like and screw it into any cue?

I will say this. I use a JossWest cue with a custom shaft that Stroud made from a Predator blank. The cue plays in harmony with the shaft and has a beautiful balance. If I take that shaft and put it on other cues, it totally changes the characteristics of the cue. I also have a sneaky pete made by another maker (custom) with a predator shaft. Even though the cues have identical specs - weight, dimensions, length, and shaft - I like playing with the JossWest a lot better.

Just screwing an aftermarket shaft into another cue handle is a hit and miss thing. The cue might turn out to be OK for the player and it might not.

Chris

 

[Zeek]

I agree Tate. I bought a 314 to fit a radial pin as I had cues from 3 different makers with the radial pin. They all felt different with the 314 so I never could get comfortable. I just shoot with the original shafts now.

Back to the original thread, while it has been a little slow this summer, there sure have been some great deals out there for people to try different cues out without breaking the bank.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Chris is on a roll...

Welcome to the Klub, Klaus! Thanks for the information.

Interesting angle: Why buy a custom cue when you can buy the shaft you like and screw it into any cue?

I will say this. I use a JossWest cue with a custom shaft that Stroud made from a Predator blank. The cue plays in harmony with the shaft and has a beautiful balance. If I take that shaft and put it on other cues, it totally changes the characteristics of the cue. I also have a sneaky pete made by another maker (custom) with a predator shaft. Even though the cues have identical specs - weight, dimensions, length, and shaft - I like playing with the JossWest a lot better.

Just screwing an aftermarket shaft into another cue handle is a hit and miss thing. The cue might turn out to be OK for the player and it might not.

Chris

I have done the same thing. I 100% agree with the above.

Sick isnt it?

Ken

 

[asiasdad]

That's ironic...when I lived there in Vegas I counted the number of McDonalds there....81 is what I counted in the yellow pages... I too will be pumping out custom cues...except that I probably won't put out no more than 12 1 of 1's...I'll also offer up some j/b and jump cues aswell...right now I've been chewing up cues trying to get the bugs worked out.... However I have managed to get a beautiful purpleheart cue almost done, all is needed is to finish the joint collar and buttcap...it's going to have a lizard patterned burgundy leather wrap...

Will you be offering your cues supersized?

 

[Rod]

Excellent observation, Sean. This was a big factor. As these larger collectors ejected their "maybe not so collectible anymore" mid range cues, it brought more than a few names crashing back to reality. This starts a downward spiral in values that bottoms out only when the smaller collectors, value buyers and players, buy up the bargains.

The prices were driven in a hot market, a frenzy. The high prices attracted a lot of cue makers, and surprise, prices plunge when supply is high.

Seems like the buyers all pile into the same names and jump out of the pool at the same time too. You still see it today, just the names have changed.

My advice is, if you want a great investment, then you.... should..... buy.............................................................................................................d..amn ...th..is.........keyboar........d..........is..........stuc......k

Chris

I agree with this, same as stocks, the market needs an adjustment. I agree with your earlier comment Chris, there are lots of quality Q makers.

Summer is flat in the pool business anyway, when the season comes back around selling will pick up. However even then I don't think the market can sustain such high prices for those lower mid to mid range cues.

Adjustment is in the making I believe.

Rod

 

[zeeder]

I agree with this, same as stocks, the market needs an adjustment. I agree with your earlier comment Chris, there are lots of quality Q makers.

Summer is flat in the pool business anyway, when the season comes back around selling will pick up. However even then I don't think the market can sustain such high prices for those lower mid to mid range cues.

Adjustment is in the making I believe.

Rod

It seems as though I always make the wrong decisions when it comes to anything speculative. I don't want to have to sell any of my cues but I would certainly like them to increase in value, or at the very least remain the same...lol. Oh well, I suppose that the only thing that really matters is that I enjoy them. Hopefully, after I finish school I'll have more "disposable" income to "dispose" of on cues!

 

[classiccues]

It seems as though I always make the wrong decisions when it comes to anything speculative. I don't want to have to sell any of my cues but I would certainly like them to increase in value, or at the very least remain the same...lol. Oh well, I suppose that the only thing that really matters is that I enjoy them. Hopefully, after I finish school I'll have more "disposable" income to "dispose" of on cues!

Zeeder,
There are no wrong choices when you buy what you like. Give em time and they will get there.

As far as the market goes, with the amount of cuemakers going up and pool's participators in decline, of course you will have an over abundance of cues. There are also other reasons, when a collector decides he doesn't want to collect, or tries to upgrade his collection and he tries to get out of cue he has, it also affects the market place. I know of two collectors this year, that have tried to do this. Ask Jeff Willings (icon) about his returns on cues he bought very early on and the advice he felt he got on those purchases. He is collecting very few cues because of this. So the market lost a key player, it happens.

Since I have been doing this, more than a year or two, I can name probably 10 collectors that have stopped or gotten out and let go,and put alot of cues into the market. They just aren't getting absorbed as quickly as they used to.

Personally, myself, I don't buy as many cues as I used to because I have another endeavor and I have limited myself greatly. The same can be said for Mark, his new room development has owned him for more than the past 24 months. So I cannot say we have seen slower sales because quite frankly, we haven't been offering our usual fare.

JV

 

[cornerstone]

new cues

we have just purchased 20 new cues in the past 2 weeks and 7 never made it to the site , but we did add a few last night szamboti/hercek/joss west/black/pfd/ect and will be putting up tascarella/mcworter / mottey andmanzino by mid week so keep watching (the market is great dont despair) www.cornerstonecustomcues.com

 

[butterflycues]

Perry

It's the same old story, people piling into a few hot names and many others are being left behind.

Anyone know where I can find a Dale Perry?

Chris

Ckeck Chris cues. He posts on this thread. He had the nicest Dale Perry I have seen at one time. Butterflycues

 

[cuedoctor]

Zeeder,
There are no wrong choices when you buy what you like. Give em time and they will get there.

As far as the market goes, with the amount of cuemakers going up and pool's participators in decline, of course you will have an over abundance of cues. There are also other reasons, when a collector decides he doesn't want to collect, or tries to upgrade his collection and he tries to get out of cue he has, it also affects the market place. I know of two collectors this year, that have tried to do this. Ask Jeff Willings (icon) about his returns on cues he bought very early on and the advice he felt he got on those purchases. He is collecting very few cues because of this. So the market lost a key player, it happens.

Since I have been doing this, more than a year or two, I can name probably 10 collectors that have stopped or gotten out and let go,and put alot of cues into the market. They just aren't getting absorbed as quickly as they used to.

Personally, myself, I don't buy as many cues as I used to because I have another endeavor and I have limited myself greatly. The same can be said for Mark, his new room development has owned him for more than the past 24 months. So I cannot say we have seen slower sales because quite frankly, we haven't been offering our usual fare.

JV

Good Post......... Alot of truth

 

[classiccues]

Good Post......... Alot of truth

Charlie, thanks..

One big problem is when a newbie comes along and gets the shaft.. no pun intended.. bad investing advice, it sours them. I have seen it happen time and time again. The things people will say to get the dollar the first (and last) time around is amazing.

JV

 

[skins]

?????

let me try this again. it looks like my earlier post was overlooked. i've seen one post in this thread and some in others mention that some makers do great work but their production is too high and this takes away from these makers being as desirable for collectors. there are some not so recognized great makers out there so what would any of you consider an acceptable annual production for a "great" makers cue to be deemed "collectible"? i'm also curious to opinions as to the determination that a makers status has reached "great/collectible"?

 

[cueaddicts]

let me try this again. it looks like my earlier post was overlooked. i've seen one post in this thread and some in others mention that some makers do great work but their production is too high and this takes away from these makers being as desirable for collectors. there are some not so recognized great makers out there so what would any of you consider an acceptable annual production for a "great" makers cue to be deemed "collectible"? i'm also curious to opinions as to the determination that a makers status has reached "great/collectible"?

Maybe the reason you didn't get a response is this is a tough call....IMO no cut and dry answer.

Some cuemakers can build 5-10 cues per year that look and play great but due to other circumstances and perceptions, they may never be considered the upper echelon of "great" or "collectible". A couple of examples I can think that sort of fit this mold are McDaniel or Runde. Both are some of the absolute finest cues made.

On the other hand, you have a company like South West. They may produce 150-250 cues per year for 20 or so years and they are still considered "great" and "collectible" due to the always high demand.

There's a lot bigger drivers like the perception of certain cues (on the part of the buyers) than just low numbers made per year. IMO there's just no way to generalize this and be accurate.

Sean

 

[cueaddicts]

yawn......

we have just purchased 20 new cues in the past 2 weeks and 7 never made it to the site , but we did add a few last night szamboti/hercek/joss west/black/pfd/ect and will be putting up tascarella/mcworter / mottey andmanzino by mid week so keep watching (the market is great dont despair) www.cornerstonecustomcues.com

As usual, no intelligent input on a subject....just advertising.