Cue makers that make their own full splice

Jerry Yost

Jerry Yost

NO MORE CTE
Silver Member
I get the perception that only a small percentage of custom cuemakers make their own full splice cues. Particularly in the case of Sneaky Pete's. Is this perception correct? If so, why? I've also noticed that once a custom cue maker gains some notoriety they are less inclined to do Sneaky's!
 
Most don't make their own simply to keep the low end hustler style cues affordable. And once famous most are too back ordered with higher end cues to spend time making the less expensive cues. A high percentage of cues I sell are fancy hustler style sneakies...simply because they play as well as anything...and are affordable to most all players. I for one would rather go to a tournament and sell 10 cues for $375. As opposed to taking a $4000 cue to 3 different tourney's trying to find a buyer. The math makes sense to me. Everyone wants a $300-400 cue that plays awesome...few players have deep enough pockets or are not prepared to cough up $3000-4000. Sure I'd like to be in the position of Barry S, Laurie F, and Dennis S. Just not quite yet...in due time.
 
Jerry Yost said:
I get the perception that only a small percentage of custom cuemakers make their own full splice cues. Particularly in the case of Sneaky Pete's. Is this perception correct? If so, why? I've also noticed that once a custom cue maker gains some notoriety they are less inclined to do Sneaky's!
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Sneaky Pete's, or Hustler Qs, are usually made as an entry level or cheap Q. Yes, there are those who play solely with these kinds of Qs, but mainly they are for the lower end customer. If they sell for less, then there is less profit in them. The most profit is in the higher end Qs,so that's the Qs we like to make. Also to make a 4 point full splice, requires some extra know how & gigs. Why do it, if there is no money in it. Why make a Q that will bring in a hundred dollars profit, when for a few more hours of labor you could get $400 & give you as a Qmaker more satisfaction. JUST MY THOUGHTS...JER
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Also to make a 4 point full splice, requires some extra know how & gigs. Why do it, if there is no money in it. ...JER
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I'm not trying to argumentative, as the cues I have now are half splice. But I think Joel Hercek's 6 years worth of customers on his waiting list may disagree with you. I don't think he would do it if "there is no money in it". I've been on his list a while, and my name finally comes up in 2007, so my money will be in it. I wish more cuemakers would go back to the verneered full splice cue.

JMO,

Jim
 
jhendri2 said:
I'm not trying to argumentative, as the cues I have now are half splice. But I think Joel Hercek's 6 years worth of customers on his waiting list may disagree with you. I don't think he would do it if "there is no money in it". I've been on his list a while, and my name finally comes up in 2007, so my money will be in it. I wish more cuemakers would go back to the verneered full splice cue.

JMO,

Jim
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He's not talking about a veneered full slice, he's talking about sneaky petes.
 
it is more complicated

jhendri2 said:
I'm not trying to argumentative, as the cues I have now are half splice. But I think Joel Hercek's 6 years worth of customers on his waiting list may disagree with you. I don't think he would do it if "there is no money in it". I've been on his list a while, and my name finally comes up in 2007, so my money will be in it. I wish more cuemakers would go back to the verneered full splice cue.

JMO,

Jim
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Not trying to be argumentative either, but I doubt his waiting list
is soley due to the fact that he builds long full splices.

The percentage of cue buyers to whom this is important is small,
as is the percentage who will pay the prices he charges

For years, Adam 4 pointers were made from long full-spliced butts
you didn't see people linning up to buy them

Dale
 
pdcue said:
Not trying to be argumentative either, but I doubt his waiting list
is soley due to the fact that he builds long full splices.

The percentage of cue buyers to whom this is important is small,
as is the percentage who will pay the prices he charges

For years, Adam 4 pointers were made from long full-spliced butts
you didn't see people linning up to buy them

Dale
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I agree that this is not the sole reason of his long waiting list. I also agree that the percentage is small for those who who want a full spliced cue. I also read, I think it's on the back cover of 99 Critical Shots, that only 1 in a 100 (one percent) players can run 5 balls. I know that you're trying to appeal to a market that's different than Hercek's. Comparing a full splice custom cue to an Adam's is probably not a fair comparison. Like I said, all the cues I own are Half splice and I love them. What is your opinion of the price of Titlist and Titlist conversions? Do you think being a quality full splice veneered cue has anything to do with it? They seem to be selling well, and have a good market/value.
 
zeeder said:
He's not talking about a veneered full slice, he's talking about sneaky petes.
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I wasn't sure what JER was talking about, I assumed it was a 4 point veneered cue, guess I was wrong. But I was just trying to get some good conversation going anyway.

I've always wondered what motivated cuemakers to do things a certain way, money, artistic prose, just cause that's what they now, etc.

When you read some of the established cue makers sight you can discern what they want to do. Some build and love the artistry (Richard Black comes to mind), some build strictly for playability (Southwest/Bluegrass). Some try to do both.

I'm rambling now so I'm going to go. Hope everyone has a great day!

Jim
 
Thanks for the replies .... keep them coming ....

I completely understand a cue maker being more inclined to make a cue where there is a bigger profit margin in addition to doing work where there is more opportunities to be artistic / creative. We're all in the business to make money at our professions. I've heard, and I think a statement made by blackheartcues confirms, that some special equipment is required to do a full splice. Is this in fact true? If it is, is there a significant investment required for this equipment?
I've also heard that there is significantly more work required to make this full splice. If so, I don't understand how the suppliers of these blanks (i.e., schmelke) are able to do it so cheaply (i.e., $29-81 depending on woods). Comments appreciated!
 
Jerry Yost said:
I completely understand a cue maker being more inclined to make a cue where there is a bigger profit margin in addition to doing work where there is more opportunities to be artistic / creative. We're all in the business to make money at our professions. I've heard, and I think a statement made by blackheartcues confirms, that some special equipment is required to do a full splice. Is this in fact true? If it is, is there a significant investment required for this equipment?
I've also heard that there is significantly more work required to make this full splice. If so, I don't understand how the suppliers of these blanks (i.e., schmelke) are able to do it so cheaply (i.e., $29-81 depending on woods). Comments appreciated!
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It doesn't take that much equipment to make full splice cues but to be efficient that equipment needs to be dedicated. A good band saw, a table saw or a mill with a side cutting saw blade plus a router table, or better, a shaper are needed. The angles of both set-ups are critical and once set are best left undisturbed. A lot of wood is wasted doing this operation and I, myself, see lttle, if any improvement in the hit of a cue. I would guess there isn't one person in a hundred who could discern a differance between a half and full splice if not being informed of it.

Like has been said before, there is not much of a call for full spliced veneered cues and good Trapper blanks can be bought cheaper than a person can make his own. If I was much younger I probably would invest in a set-up but now, at my age, I could never recoup my investment.

Dick
 
Varney Cues said:
A high percentage of cues I sell are fancy hustler style sneakies...simply because they play as well as anything...and are affordable to most all players. I for one would rather go to a tournament and sell 10 cues for $375. As opposed to taking a $4000 cue to 3 different tourney's trying to find a buyer. The math makes sense to me.
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You math & business plan makes Dollars & Cents too me also. More buyer of $300.00-$4000.00 running Around than $4,000.00 cues...:)
 
If I might put my 2 cents in. The creation of a full spliced cue boils down time, material and techneque. Most US builders dont want to spend the time building a full spliced cue due to the increased amount of labor and time involved. However it doesnt justify the price some builders demand for it. That is just supply and demand at work.
Second many of the new builders out there dont have the techneque to do full spliced correctly. Then you have the CNC crowd out there.
There is nothing that plays quite like a full splice cue. My BBC and Brunswicks that have been converted and left full splice play distincly differnt from any of the same cues that have been cut down to a short splice.
The price of the Titlist cues is at the moment outrageous for the materials that you. These cues generally were not made from top quality materials. There are exceptions and if you are lucky enough to get your hads on one they make a beautfully playing and looking cue.
 
Sev said:
If I might put my 2 cents in. The creation of a full spliced cue boils down time, material and techneque. Most US builders dont want to spend the time building a full spliced cue due to the increased amount of labor and time involved. However it doesnt justify the price some builders demand for it. That is just supply and demand at work.
Second many of the new builders out there dont have the techneque to do full spliced correctly. Then you have the CNC crowd out there.
There is nothing that plays quite like a full splice cue. My BBC and Brunswicks that have been converted and left full splice play distincly differnt from any of the same cues that have been cut down to a short splice.
The price of the Titlist cues is at the moment outrageous for the materials that you. These cues generally were not made from top quality materials. There are exceptions and if you are lucky enough to get your hads on one they make a beautfully playing and looking cue.
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So, you're of the impression that it takes more time & labor to build a full spliced cue, correct? If so, I cannot agree with you. The time it takes to make jig(s) & get the equipment & machinery set up correctly to make full spliced cues is a fair sized investment, but the manufacturing time can actually be less than what it takes to make a half spliced cue.

As to supply & demand, I'm not an expert in that field, but I believe the market for full spliced cues is somewhat limited. Speaking of quality cues now, not the low level junk that's being manufactured nowadays. And the price(?), well, if that's what a buyer wants, there are only a handfull of "go to guys" currently making quality full spliced.

My personal opinion is that "Most US builders" build what the market is looking for, and in fact, spend a huge "amount of labor and time" and money, addressing themselves to building a quality piece of merchandise, (the majority of which are half spliced cues by the way). I also believe that any cuemaker that has been around a while and has become proficient in the trade, could very easily switch over to building full spliced, if, (big word here) if he was willing to make the move.

I don't doubt that your Brunswick plays differently than other cues, it certainly should. Does it play better(?), wouldn't that be in the opinion of the user? I have the option of making any cue I like for my personal use, but my preference is a half spliced.

my 2 cents worth
 
Every so often Bill Mcdaniel makes a run of full splice "sneaky pete" cues that he calls Mac Attack cues that are great cues for the money and are made by him.
 
Full splice?

His website calls it "V splice". Sure looks like a full splice to me. Imagin the Sneaky Pete it would make!!
 
Charlie, I was just jerkin your chain a little in my last post. I'll certainly stand corrected if I'm wrong, but I believe it's a half spliced cue. Whatever type construction it is, it's still classy looking.
 
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