Cues: Is there really a difference?

neilhin

neilhin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is a hypothesis:

Take 10 different brands of cues (production or custom) with full stainless steel joints, all weighing roughly the same with similar balance points and linen wraps, slap a Predator 314 (or other engineered shaft) shaft and the same tip on them and they feel very similar. In fact, it's virtually impossible to tell the difference The finest aged maple and quality of butt construction will not matter much.

Any opinions?
 
neilhin said:
Here is a hypothesis:

Take 10 different brands of cues (production or custom) with full stainless steel joints, all weighing roughly the same with similar balance points and linen wraps, slap a Predator 314 (or other engineered shaft) shaft and the same tip on them and they feel very similar. In fact, it's virtually impossible to tell the difference The finest aged maple and quality of butt construction will not matter much.

Any opinions?
Click to expand...

Personally, I agree. I believe that per the parameters above, unless there
is a glue void, or a crack/defect in the wood, the hit would be very similar
using the same shaft, or same LD brand and make of shaft along with the
same tip.
 
Minus the steel joint you cant find a cue that Plays Better then a LAMBROS!!!!!!!!!!!! no other cues hit the same!!!!
I have had my playing cue for all but 10 years still plays great only maintenance is a tip 2x's a year
also just in case any LAMBROS Cue owners didn't know Mike now has an AWSOME Extension for his cues
he does something with the but and your good to go with an extra 6 or so inches!! I do understand not everyone
needs the 6 or so inches!! *just sayin*
 
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Of course, the other question to be asked is, of those 10 cues, how many will still be in good condition in 10-20 years? There is a lot to be said for quality workmanship standing the test of time.
 
neilhin said:
Here is a hypothesis:

Take 10 different brands of cues (production or custom) with full stainless steel joints, all weighing roughly the same with similar balance points and linen wraps, slap a Predator 314 (or other engineered shaft) shaft and the same tip on them and they feel very similar. In fact, it's virtually impossible to tell the difference The finest aged maple and quality of butt construction will not matter much.

Any opinions?
Click to expand...


This is a statment not a hypotheses.

This is a hypotheses:

If the age of maple shafts, joint construction and butt construction do not determine the "feel of hit" of a cue" then the "feel of hit" will be the same when a engineed shaft is used in place of the maple shaft.


Now, go figure out how to test this. Cause this is the only way you can really be able to make this statement.
 
Of course, a better built cue should last longer. If the wood is properly aged, the glue, joints, etc. However, is there any conclusive evidence that one brand of cue is more likely to hold up than another after several years?

IMHO, if you take the full SS joint out of the picture, everything changes. the balance, the feel, etc but it seems that most production cue makers and even many custom cue makers are moving towards SS joints for quality control reasons. It's simply easier to match up butts with shafts. Of course, some will tell you that SS joints look prettier but I don't buy that. There are other ways to make cues look pretty.
 
My cues do not have a stainless joint but the difference it the hit, more sound than feel, is very very noticible when I switch the 314 shaft from one to the other. Whether one is better than the other is subjective but the difference is absolutely noticible.
 
They may feel similar but when you're holding a 3K custom in your hand made by guylassy for example, you feel like you can shoot like Efren. For me, a cue just doesn't deal with the body but also the mind. When I'm shooting with a custom I don't miss. I've had various types of cues both production and custom and nothing plays like a custom for some reason!
 
Obviously each piece of wood has it's own characteristics to some extent. I have 2 Predator sneakies (wood joint) that are only .1 oz in weight difference, have slightly different balance points and feel noticeably different with the same 314 shaft/tip. Imagine the difference with 2 different all maple shafts!

Interestingly, I compared a Schon STL14 to a Predator SE cue made by Pechauer with the same Universal shaft (LD shaft with interchangeable joints). They both have full piloted SS joints. The balance point was off by less than 1/8" and the weight was off by .1 oz. In actual play I couldn't decide which one I preferred. I did, however, miss the unique sound of the Schon wood shaft.

Metal joints, LD shafts, synthetic materials offer predictability and consistency. Predator, for example, makes decent cues but I find the hit, well, boring. The Predator SE and LE series cues have some uniqueness in feel but still very Predator-like ... which is not necessarily a bad thing for Predator. I think consistency is important for mass production cuemakers.
 
I think it may feel and play very similar, but not exact. I own a Richard Black that til this day I haven't quite gotten used to the feel and hit of the stock shafts. It could be just the tip and I plan on replacing them soon. Anyway, I have an It's George that I can play with and get used to the feel and hit fairly quickly. If I put my It's George cue shafts on my Richard Black the feel and hit is almost identical to my It's George cue.

I just bought an OB Classic that fits my Black, It's George, and Carolina Custom, so I'll test it on those 3 cues at least and see if they play similar or different. I haven't tried it out yet as I just got the OB Classic shaft this past weekend.
 
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iownthe412, I agree.
There are any number of reasons that I prefer custom cues. A good custom cuemaker will make a cue with a matching shaft tailored to your specs and desires with the finest materials. You will hopefully have a cue that lasts a long time and will maintain resale value

Nevertheless, I wonder if a heavy SS joint limits what they can do with the cue. I realize some people prefer a front-heavy cue but that can be accomplished with denser, exotic woods as well. I would love to now how custom cuemakers feel about SS joints and ld shafts overall.
 
neilhin said:
Here is a hypothesis:

Take 10 different brands of cues (production or custom) with full stainless steel joints, all weighing roughly the same with similar balance points and linen wraps, slap a Predator 314 (or other engineered shaft) shaft and the same tip on them and they feel very similar. In fact, it's virtually impossible to tell the difference The finest aged maple and quality of butt construction will not matter much.

Any opinions?
Click to expand...
I completely disagree. Feel can absolutely be different.

I mean, it sounds like you're saying "put the same butt on with the same specs and it will feel the same." Well, that's a no brainer. But, but "10 different brands" will have different ballance points, thicknesses, linen wrap finish, sound/vibration., so of course they'll feel different.

Will they perform differently? Only so far as the differences in balance and such affects how (speed and straightness) someone strokes the cue. And that's been the same idea since a person first stroked a cue. That is, the most important "aspect" in the playability of a cue is how it feels in the player's hands throughought warm up and stroke and impact.

Fred
 
I have held a number of fine cues in my hand & very fortunate to have owned a few. There is & always will be something good to say about a "fine piece of art, especially made to do something with".

Will I own another one someday...?

When & if the economy comes back, more than likely.
 
Minus the steel joint you cant find a cue that Plays Better then a DIVENEY!!!!!!!!!!!! no other cues hit the same!!!!.............
drpjr said:
Minus the steel joint you cant find a cue that Plays Better then a LAMBROS!!!!!!!!!!!! no other cues hit the same!!!!
I have had my playing cue for all but 10 years still plays great only maintenance is a tip 2x's a year
also just in case any LAMBROS Cue owners didn't know Mike now has an AWSOME Extension for his cues
he does something with the but and your good to go with an extra 6 or so inches!! I do understand not everyone
needs the 6 or so inches!! *just sayin*
Click to expand...
 
SS joints and shafts

neilhin said:
iownthe412, I agree.
There are any number of reasons that I prefer custom cues. A good custom cuemaker will make a cue with a matching shaft tailored to your specs and desires with the finest materials. You will hopefully have a cue that lasts a long time and will maintain resale value

Nevertheless, I wonder if a heavy SS joint limits what they can do with the cue. I realize some people prefer a front-heavy cue but that can be accomplished with denser, exotic woods as well. I would love to now how custom cuemakers feel about SS joints and ld shafts overall.
Click to expand...

No expert here, but believe cue makers like SS because it may be stronger in the long run. Many are making their own LD shafts cause they want people to buy their shafts instead of heh I want it to fit a Pred shaft. I think custom makers will give you a higher quality shaft than production cues offer. Don't think most people could pick their own cue if blindfolded and hitting several cues of like weight and construction. Who really knows?
 
Yea, I think they will feel different. Since you are establishing them to be all about the same, the hit will be almost the same. Still, there will be a difference. The key is will it affect your performance. I would say after a few days with any of them, your performance will be unaffected. Still, if you know what kind of hit you like, one of them will have a preferred hit to you.

This is why you can get any cue, put a tip you like on it and play pretty much the same. This is why many pros don't worry about being contracted to play with a certain cue. The company just sends the player a few of their cues, and the player selects a favorite, retips it and moves on. It is the check which comes with the cue which is the highest value.

That said, you will probably never prefer the hit of poorly constructed cues.
 
Another thing that is not being considered here is that, no matter the cue's joint configuration, a traditional shaft will continue to 'open up' with play, where as an engineered shaft will not.

I, too, feel that there will be a difference in feel between the different butts. Shafts aren't the only part of a cue that has subtle taper changes. Even with a full SS joint, an ebony cue may still be a bit rear-weighted...so the balance point will be different.

Some folks may not notice these subtleties when playing, others most certainly will. I also do not believe that these engineered shafts are as nearly identical as some would believe. The maple sections used to create the laminates cannot all possibly weigh the same, so there will be slight variances there as well.

Wood is wood...no two pieces are going to be identical...even from the same board.

Lisa
 
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