Curious about bartering

My wife was teaching 6th and 7th graders how to make a website about 6 years ago, it's a lot easier than most people think and I would encourage any cuemaker to try for themselves first. Also making a website has surely gotten easier so you don't need to be a "guru" or anything "special" for that matter to build one. Remember she had 6th graders doing it for a school project. Worst comes to worst I can always put you on the phone with her and she can tell you what to do for free.
 
do have a brunswick ix ?

im looking for some info on this table.can yo help me in anyway??



rrussotwo said:
Another thread sparked this and I was hoping to have some cuemakers chime in.

I've wondered about the bartering thing. Do cuemakers like getting websites for cues?

Just asking as my degree is in graphic design and I build web applications and specialize in user interaction and interface design.

I never thought of offering services for trade because most (not all) of the cue websites out there suck balls. I specialize in content managed custom development, e-learning, and ecommerce. I just can't see doing $2,000 worth of work for a $500 cue, so I guess I'm having a hard time seeing both sides of the equation.

One one hand the design mostly sucks and that might be because they are getting crap design for cheaper cues, but it is no excuse. The cue might be 2 grand, but I'm sure it plays great. It is the designer that is willing to enter the agreement and therefore must turn out quality equal to the cue being given. On the other hand, any designer that puts out crappy work for a client should be shot.

I could never, in good faith, do substandard work for ANYONE, regardless if I'm taking a bath on the project.

I just don't see how these guys do it, unless they're hobbyists as the going rate for professional custom design/development is between $100 and $200 and hour. The average content managed site using off the shelf open source software and a one off template would be about $2,000. Once the client wants an e-commerce site, the price shoots to at least 10k for a custom designed site with features unique to them.

There's also the matter of updates as these systems need to be updated to remain secure. You don't want a client getting hacked and sending tons of spam from their domain.

I'm looking to hear from cuemakers who have engaged in bartering cues for design/development and am eager to know how the relationship has played out.

Are you happy?

How much was the cue you traded?

Would you do it again?
Click to expand...
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Many years ago I got a call from a Realtor in Roseville, CA he needed someone to photograph a $750.000.00 property for a sales brochure. I asked where he got my name, and he mention someone gave him my card, and said I was good.

I told the guy up front my specialty was not ARCHITECTURAL PHOTOGRAPHY, but maybe I could help him out. We talked about the brochure, and the photos were to be small so I could pull off the job with 35 mm equipment.

He gave me the address of the property, and I said I would drive out that night, look over the job, and give him a call in the a.m. with a price.

He told me what he want photographed inside & out, and I went out to the property armed with compass and notes.

In the a.m. I called the realtor back, and advise him of the price of the job, and supplies. Explaining I need to be on site about 6 hours because of when the sun rose and started hitting the property. Explain some pre work, and clean up that I would do before I started shooting, to make great photos.

He replied with you price is way too high, and the guy he normally used charge him only so much per hour.

I asked why he did not call the regular guy, and he replied he had tried and tried, but got no call back.

I told him my price was my price. He said nothing and I hung up. The phone rings in a minute, and it is mister chepo realtor, and he want to negotiate my price.

I say I have an idea for a trade off, or exchange of services. I will do his job for FREE, and in return in a year or when I plan to sell my home, he will list my home, and work the the listing as the seller agent for FREE as his part of the trade off.

His reply is he is a professional, and more BS, and my reply is to shoot his own pictures, or wait for his regular guy to call back.
Click to expand...

I always feel bartering tangible property for work of any kind leaves SOMEONE feeling shorted. Hopefully, you are employed already. My friend, who graduated in that field about 10 years ago, is just happy to have a job(60k).

My experience is the more money people make or have, the less they will pay for honest work.

As a photographer I once did a shoot for the city's harbor department. It was through a good friend, so I didn't have a contract(yes I know) with the city. I shot pictures of the boats, worked with the graphic artist(including doing PS work and color managing), and printed several 13x19's(i think, maybe bigger) images for their trade show. For this I asked for 100.00 and was told I wasn't going to get ANYTHING. Yah....FREE.

Anyone who does photography professionalyl can say without even seeing my work that it was a complete bargain. They were happy with my work, just didn't want to pay.

In the end I gave them a choice of paying me 600.00 or destroying the 10,000 brochures they had printed using my images. They paid me 600.00 and we signed a contract that I drafted right then and there stating their limited rights to my copyrighted images.

I know I got off topic with that story, but I enjoy telling it:grin:
 
Last edited:
rrussotwo said:
Another thread sparked this and I was hoping to have some cuemakers chime in.

I've wondered about the bartering thing. Do cuemakers like getting websites for cues?

Just asking as my degree is in graphic design and I build web applications and specialize in user interaction and interface design.

I never thought of offering services for trade because most (not all) of the cue websites out there suck balls. I specialize in content managed custom development, e-learning, and ecommerce. I just can't see doing $2,000 worth of work for a $500 cue, so I guess I'm having a hard time seeing both sides of the equation.

One one hand the design mostly sucks and that might be because they are getting crap design for cheaper cues, but it is no excuse. The cue might be 2 grand, but I'm sure it plays great. It is the designer that is willing to enter the agreement and therefore must turn out quality equal to the cue being given. On the other hand, any designer that puts out crappy work for a client should be shot.

I could never, in good faith, do substandard work for ANYONE, regardless if I'm taking a bath on the project.

I just don't see how these guys do it, unless they're hobbyists as the going rate for professional custom design/development is between $100 and $200 and hour. The average content managed site using off the shelf open source software and a one off template would be about $2,000. Once the client wants an e-commerce site, the price shoots to at least 10k for a custom designed site with features unique to them.

There's also the matter of updates as these systems need to be updated to remain secure. You don't want a client getting hacked and sending tons of spam from their domain.

I'm looking to hear from cuemakers who have engaged in bartering cues for design/development and am eager to know how the relationship has played out.

Are you happy?

How much was the cue you traded?

Would you do it again?
Click to expand...

Would you perhaps care to provide link(s) to some of the
sites you have created?

Dale
 
cuemaker03 said:
My wife was teaching 6th and 7th graders how to make a website about 6 years ago, it's a lot easier than most people think and I would encourage any cuemaker to try for themselves first. Also making a website has surely gotten easier so you don't need to be a "guru" or anything "special" for that matter to build one. Remember she had 6th graders doing it for a school project. Worst comes to worst I can always put you on the phone with her and she can tell you what to do for free.
Click to expand...

There are a million places online that teach how to make a basic website. Another million templates are available. There are programs that are drag and drop - there are websites that walk you through it - there are blog platforms to do it.

You want a webpage? Here you go, http://webdesign.about.com/cs/beginninghtml/ht/htbasicwebpage.htm

Creating a website is not the problem.

Maintaining it is.

Saying that a 6th grader could do it is like saying you can build a good cue in high school woodshop.

To build a high quality site you need to know what you are doing and be prepared to put in the time to keep it current or know how to make it timeless but effective at getting people to place orders if that's what you want.

Once again, to repeat, maintenance is the issue. Getting a website is SUPER EASY. Getting a GOOD one is harder. Getting a GREAT one is much harder. Taking care of any of them is where the work comes in.

I have helped people build websites and I still get messages years later asking for help to change this or that.
 
I can't believe someone is still charging that kind of money to build websites these days. With all the people that are capable of building them, the prices have come down significantly. I haven't seen anyone getting over 2 grand for anything in years. Maybe this is the reason why there isn't any more work for americans in america anymore because we are still charging too much for our goods and services. One thing that is done all the time and for free (if you have the connections) is having the local college build the site for you. You can find a class usually in advertising or public relations who needs a project for the class. There will be hundreds of students bidding for your work to do for their class project. It will be checked by the best instructors in the world who are more up to date than anyone who works on them everyday. The reason is that it must be up to government regulations in order to be taught at the college level under strict guidelines. They will have the most up to date software than anyone else as they are required to teach the most up to date information that is available. Nowhere else can you have hundreds of people competing for your business at that level. AND ITS FREE. Maybe this is when the youth of the world know more than the adults when it comes to technology. Regardless, it's top notch! Good luck
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Many years ago I got a call from a Realtor in Roseville, CA he needed someone to photograph a $750.000.00 property for a sales brochure...

He replied with you price is way too high, and the guy he normally used charge him only so much per hour...

His reply is he is a professional, and more BS, and my reply is to shoot his own pictures, or wait for his regular guy to call back.
Click to expand...

Kind of funny when you consider that he would make, at minimum, $18,750 on that sale.

I have had the unfortunate experience of working with/employing hundreds of realtors in my career and I have to say that they are, almost without exception, shady people who have no idea what a professional is.

Here is all it takes to be a realtor in CA and it takes more there than in most states: http://www.dre.ca.gov/exm_sales.html

That's right! 3 whole classes and an easy test and you too can be a "professional".

You experience is not unique in nature and is typical. It is a shame that craftsmen like cuemakers who hone a trade for years and build a business on quality don't make the money these "professionals" do for listing a house (15 minutes), smiling while people look at it (houses sell themselves), and then collect 2.5-6% commission on the sale.

Then to top it off, most of the feel that they are on par with real professionals.
 
why trade?

rrussotwo, why do you need to trade ? according to your numbers you are making an excess of $400,000. a year, can't you afford a cue.
it will be a cold in hell when i spend $200.00 ph for a computer geek to try to tell me what a great website he can design.
 
rrussotwo said:
Another thread sparked this and I was hoping to have some cuemakers chime in.

I've wondered about the bartering thing. Do cuemakers like getting websites for cues?

Just asking as my degree is in graphic design and I build web applications and specialize in user interaction and interface design.

I never thought of offering services for trade because most (not all) of the cue websites out there suck balls. I specialize in content managed custom development, e-learning, and ecommerce. I just can't see doing $2,000 worth of work for a $500 cue, so I guess I'm having a hard time seeing both sides of the equation.

One one hand the design mostly sucks and that might be because they are getting crap design for cheaper cues, but it is no excuse. The cue might be 2 grand, but I'm sure it plays great. It is the designer that is willing to enter the agreement and therefore must turn out quality equal to the cue being given. On the other hand, any designer that puts out crappy work for a client should be shot.

I could never, in good faith, do substandard work for ANYONE, regardless if I'm taking a bath on the project.

I just don't see how these guys do it, unless they're hobbyists as the going rate for professional custom design/development is between $100 and $200 and hour. The average content managed site using off the shelf open source software and a one off template would be about $2,000. Once the client wants an e-commerce site, the price shoots to at least 10k for a custom designed site with features unique to them.

There's also the matter of updates as these systems need to be updated to remain secure. You don't want a client getting hacked and sending tons of spam from their domain.

I'm looking to hear from cuemakers who have engaged in bartering cues for design/development and am eager to know how the relationship has played out.

Are you happy?

How much was the cue you traded?

Would you do it again?
Click to expand...

I find this Cue Makers Site Stream Lined. If I could buy a Sneaky Pete from him for $2,000 I would do it today.

www.searingcues.com/
 
scdiveteam said:
On my site, I plan on showing cue blanks .020 over size, sealed, unfinished without the pin installed. This way the customer has the option to add inlays to the points and butt sleeve in our artwork.


Rick Geschrey
Click to expand...

THIS is a great idea. I hope you find this to be successful Rick.
 
galipeau said:
THIS is a great idea. I hope you find this to be successful Rick.
Click to expand...

It will be very successful!!!

When I first put up a cue web site it had the options of ordering a cue with every imaginable option. We got plenty of orders. So, many that I cancelled the option functions. It was a nightmare. Who wanted this with that, that with this, this and that with the other thing, the other thing with that but not this; it was endless. I spent hours figuring out what each order needed before I could get on a lathe and do it. And that's not including the hours on the phone to discuss and make certain that I understood the order or that the customer misunderstood what they ordered.

I went to standardized cues, my way; take it or leave it. It worked fine, less confusion and a whole lot less wasted time and aggravation.

If you can handle it, it's a great way to do it. I wish him a lot of luck.
 
rrussotwo said:
Another thread sparked this and I was hoping to have some cuemakers chime in.

I've wondered about the bartering thing. Do cuemakers like getting websites for cues?

Just asking as my degree is in graphic design and I build web applications and specialize in user interaction and interface design.

I never thought of offering services for trade because most (not all) of the cue websites out there suck balls. I specialize in content managed custom development, e-learning, and ecommerce. I just can't see doing $2,000 worth of work for a $500 cue, so I guess I'm having a hard time seeing both sides of the equation.

One one hand the design mostly sucks and that might be because they are getting crap design for cheaper cues, but it is no excuse. The cue might be 2 grand, but I'm sure it plays great. It is the designer that is willing to enter the agreement and therefore must turn out quality equal to the cue being given. On the other hand, any designer that puts out crappy work for a client should be shot.

I could never, in good faith, do substandard work for ANYONE, regardless if I'm taking a bath on the project.

I just don't see how these guys do it, unless they're hobbyists as the going rate for professional custom design/development is between $100 and $200 and hour. The average content managed site using off the shelf open source software and a one off template would be about $2,000. Once the client wants an e-commerce site, the price shoots to at least 10k for a custom designed site with features unique to them.

There's also the matter of updates as these systems need to be updated to remain secure. You don't want a client getting hacked and sending tons of spam from their domain.

I'm looking to hear from cuemakers who have engaged in bartering cues for design/development and am eager to know how the relationship has played out.

Are you happy?

How much was the cue you traded?

Would you do it again?
Click to expand...

Maybe since you're a Jedi warrior your time is worth $100-$200 an hour, but I doubt you'll find a cuemaker who's probably working at about minimum wage, who'll agree with you! There's a glut of people who consider themselves website designers who are constantly trying to get me to trade them a custom cue for designing me a website. So much so that I took down my existing website so that they would no longer be able to find me as easily! Good luck with your endeavors!

Sherm
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top