Curious what the definition of an A player is?

[Nine ... corner]

I saw someone in a similar thread a couple of weeks ago simplistically define A and B players this way:

A "B" player will consistently beat the ghost in a race to 7 in six ball.

An "A" player will do the same in nine ball.

I'm wondering what you all think about this. Comments?

 

[hang-the-9]

Seriously? No leagues, no tourneys? That sucks. By default, I guess I'd put you and your buddys in the banger category (ie go out as a group to play pool), maybe you know something about the game and you may have separate skill levels, but I'd say still bangers.

It's not an insult, it's a category.

Like IDIOTS and LOWLIFES LOL :grin: I'm not calling you an idiot, just categorizing :wink:

 

[hang-the-9]

I saw someone in a similar thread a couple of weeks ago simplistically define A and B players this way:

A "B" player will consistently beat the ghost in a race to 7 in six ball.

An "A" player will do the same in nine ball.

I'm wondering what you all think about this. Comments?

Yep, that's about right with how I think of it, B should average 5-6 balls with ball in hand, if you break a 6 ball rack you have 4-5-6 balls to run.

 

[cigardave]

To me, an A player is one who consistently places in the top 3 or 4 of the regional tournaments played across the US.

Regional in my case is across the states of WA, OR, ID, and BC, Canada.

Regional in the east may be one city like Boston or Philadelphia.

 

[Fatboy]

in all honesty there're so many differet aspects of playing pool at a high level, its hard to define or put them into 4 or 5 categories c,b,a etc.

Speaking fo myself I have seen guys who play super solid-rob the 10B goahst 90% of the time in races to 11 playing alone fall apart like a cheap suit ofr a $200 race to 11. So is he a A player cause he robs the 10 ball gotst or a C player cause he cant run 5 balls in a row for the cheese? Same guy different circumstance . I know a person like this.

case 2: I saw a guy in SoCal he started playing in 83 as I recall i started playing in pool rooms in 85, so he had a couple years experience on me on 9' tables. I lived 400 miles away, we played once for $20 and the time, I got the 7 ball. I think I won, It was close, thinking as I type I'm sure I barely won. seems like I came from behind to get there race to 11 for $20 & the time, he wouldnt play again. we remained friendly for a few years, Then I didnt see him for 10 years I went into Star Billiards in SD one day and there he was playing a kid, I was almost 30 by then, i was 18 or 19 the ONE time we played. He was drilling the kid to the wall-no action. Then the kid pulled up, I watched him break and run 8 clean, no fudging the balls around or cheating. A legit 8 pack. I couldnt beat that wth the 5 & the break, they weren't cosmos, he had clusters, you name it he did it. reminded me of Efren. He was playing champion speed, full blown champion speed. I asked a guy on the rail I knew why was he playing bangers, and how long has he been playing this strong. the rail bird told me years....and he only plays kids, he was 34-36 and played 18 year olds or lower. Guy told me "this is all he can do, he stepped out a couple times fell apart and came back to where he is comfortable" So is he a champion? or a A player or B player? last i heard he still plays, nice guy, but got kinda weird as he got older.


IMO it is what it is, you play how you play. There are Champions, bangers and the rest are in the middle. Its easy to identify a champion, and a banger, and everyone else is in-between .

 

[fastone371]

Your definitions leave me out. We don't have any leagues here. There are no tournaments here. We don't even have pool halls here. But our group of buddies go to bars specifically to play pool.

Where is here, never heard of it?.
"B" player has everyones money unless there is an "A" around, then the "A" player has everyones money unless there is an "AA" player..................... you get the idea:thumbup:

 

[Tronpocket]

Personally, By definition Ive always rated players as , and always on a 9'...........

Pro , A player who plays pool for a living. There is a range of skill levels here that encompass both Open and A level players. ( and some Bs )

Open/ "shortstop" , A player who is capable of beating anyone in the world in a race (9/10 rotations, 8 ball, and to a lesser degree 14.1 , one pocket , banks) , knows all the game(s) , Just a real solid player . there is little variances in player skill sets here, and all have their "best/favorite " game.

"A" class, Heres where we can get a bit "loose " with our definitions
To Me, To be an "A" player, one must be a very consitstant and fundamentaly sound player in at least 1 discipline, be it 9/10 ball, straight pool , whatever. But must have this quality . "A"s have wider varying degree in skill sets . Can have an upset against the top players in a short race. sound defensive knowledge, runs racks in small packs . gets out when they should 90% of the time
I dont think location should have an effect on what an "A" player is , just as long as they play 1 game about as well as anyone but the open/shortstops.
NOTE: an "A" class 9 baller can be a "B" class straight pool or one pocket player .

"B" class , again , its about skill sets and consistency, Many are "niche" players , knows enough to get themselves in line or in trouble, they have less consistency then an "A" but can be dangerous at times. Can run rack(s) here and there.
NOTE: A "B" player may have fairly strong offense (A) and weak defense (C), keeping them from beating the true "A" players consistently.

"C" class, Makes some shots, plays a little position , actually tries to play the game . can get out in 8 ball or 9/10 ball once in a while. Has "pet" shots they like to shoot. Weak defense and cant even spell "won pockit"

"D" class, just a banger , cares nothing or very little about position , never saw a shot they didnt like. never plays anything but 8 ball or 9 ball but still enjoys the game.:thumbup:

Im at a point in my game where i feel there is only 2 ways to play, champ or chump.

Tronpocket---------------- (plays somewhere between "D" and "Efren")

 

[Banks]

To me, an A player is one who consistently places in the top 3 or 4 of the regional tournaments played across the US.

Regional in my case is across the states of WA, OR, ID, and BC, Canada.

Regional in the east may be one city like Boston or Philadelphia.

This is one reason why it's all over the board. There's the local-local A, which means they're probably in the top 10% of whatever their area is. Then there's the regional A and then there's the national A. I'm a regional A, but stronger local players have gone to Vegas and couldn't make it through the 1000+ player Open to qualify as a national A. If I went to Cali, I'd probably be a B. I'm finding that I can go from dogging straight-in shots in 9b to then running out playing 1p. I was also happy with my 2-pack on a Valley last night. That alone probably makes me a B.

 

[JC]

I do not think I will ever deservingly become an A player, because my game is just not consistent enough, and there are aspects of my game that are really weak (like bank shots for example).

I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so.

But I know it when I see it.

—Justice Potter Stewart, concurring opinion in Jacobellis v. Ohio 378 U.S. 184 (1964), regarding possible obscenity in The Lovers.

It's like this :smile:

JC

 

[Scott Lee]

You have a great instructor right there in Evansville. Contact boyersj right here on AZ. Don't know if you play better than him or not...but it doesn't matter. There are many things you can learn from him...mostly about yourself and how to get out of your own way, in terms of becoming the player you say you want to be! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thanks for reading, and I hope to receive nice replies about my curiosity about A players.

I always wanted to be one, but I never worked on the weak points of my game, and I never had a really good instructor.

 

[joelpope]

I know that this is a really stupid question, but I am just curious how many levels come with the rank of of an A player, and what a player has to do to be thought of as an A player?

I always thought that an A player is a player that can consistently run out (not only that), but can also play a very strong defensive game as well.

I have always considered myself to be a decent B player (but never an A player, because I am not very consistent, and many aspects of my game are very weak, like bank shots, and combination shots).

I am also not a very good defensive player.

Even though I am not (and have never been) a very strong player (with many weak points to my game), or a very consistent player, this one 9 ball tournament that I used to play in every now and then (in Cape Girardeau MO) would never allow me to play as a B player (they always made me play as an A) in their handicapped 9 ball tournament.

I am just curious what most people think of how good an A player should be to achieve that rank (and I am referring to 9 ball players, or 10 ball players).

I know that I might be made fun of for creating this silly thread (with some of the things that I have talked about), but I am just curious how good a player should be to be called an A player, and what are all the aspects of an A players game should be really strong to deservingly be considered an A player?

I do not think I will ever deservingly become an A player, because my game is just not consistent enough, and there are aspects of my game that are really weak (like bank shots for example).

Maybe an A player is a player that is really good at all of the games (8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, 1 pocket, banks, and even 14.1 straight pool)?

Just curious about opinions about what an A player is exactly, and if they really have to be strong at all aspects of the game in order to be called an A player?

Thanks for reading, and I hope to receive nice replies about my curiosity about A players.

I always wanted to be one, but I never worked on the weak points of my game, and I never had a really good instructor.

in my mind, an A player has the knowledge and skills of a pro and can play at the level of a pro when "on," but, cannot do it consistently...

whereas a pro may have a bad day or miss some shots or shape but overall play at a pro level on their worst days

when an A player has a bad day, they play like a B player

when any of the top pros are playing well, they just don't miss & it comes down to the break and rolls during the game

 

[infest]

Seriously? No leagues, no tourneys? That sucks. By default, I guess I'd put you and your buddys in the banger category (ie go out as a group to play pool), maybe you know something about the game and you may have separate skill levels, but I'd say still bangers.

It's not an insult, it's a category.

No offense taken. 2 of the guys are actually good. One is a B+(Only 2 guys within a 45 mile radius that can beat him) player the other is a B-. I'm okay with being a banger. I will continue to learn and get better. Then take the B player's money.

Then I've also been playing(he's been giving me lessons) with a guy here lately that is an A player. He can only name 6 players from Memphis, Tn to Manchester, Tn that can beat him. He says he thinks he's in the top 50 players in Tn. But I think he's just being modest. Probably in the top 20 to 25. Unfortunately I talked to him yesterday and told me "Well... I broke my stick and am quitting pool."

 

[NYC cue dude]

The levels as I know them

D-beginner
C- can make simple shots and is starting to use English/spin
B-can make all the shots (combos ,caroms etc) but doesn't always. Struggles with cue ball control
A- makes all the shots, can bump open clusters, will miss or lose cue ball on occasion
Open- can play anyone in most games, will lose to pros in extended play
Pro- doesn't miss. Controls the cue ball all of the time
World class elite- can lose to a pro in a race to 9 or in 14.1 match to 150. Won't lose in a race to 100 or a match to 500.

 

[ronscuba]

D-beginner
C- can make simple shots and is starting to use English/spin
B-can make all the shots (combos ,caroms etc) but doesn't always. Struggles with cue ball control
A- makes all the shots, can bump open clusters, will miss or lose cue ball on occasion
Open- can play anyone in most games, will lose to pros in extended play
Pro- doesn't miss. Controls the cue ball all of the time
World class elite- can lose to a pro in a race to 9 or in 14.1 match to 150. Won't lose in a race to 100 or a match to 500.

I play in a couple of beginner NYC leagues. Is the above how it is in the intermediate-advanced leagues and local tournaments like Tri-state and Predator ?

 

[Diamond69]

No offense taken. 2 of the guys are actually good. One is a B+(Only 2 guys within a 45 mile radius that can beat him) player the other is a B-. I'm okay with being a banger. I will continue to learn and get better. Then take the B player's money.

Then I've also been playing(he's been giving me lessons) with a guy here lately that is an A player. He can only name 6 players from Memphis, Tn to Manchester, Tn that can beat him. He says he thinks he's in the top 50 players in Tn. But I think he's just being modest. Probably in the top 20 to 25. Unfortunately I talked to him yesterday and told me "Well... I broke my stick and am quitting pool."

Well there ya go. You just moved up a notch in the area rankings!! :thumbup:

 

[NYC cue dude]

Pretty much

I play in a couple of beginner NYC leagues. Is the above how it is in the intermediate-advanced leagues and local tournaments like Tri-state and Predator ?

John leyman with the tri state can watch you play a match and give a fair assessment of your skill level. Don't sand bag. The goal should be to play the best players you can, as often as you can, win or lose. If you are a C, then there's no honor in winning a $100 beating up on a D. After all, the real prize is getting better.

 

[8onthebreak]

Haven't read all the replies but...

Play a couple games of Fargo, and you'll know your label right away. It rates you B,A,AA,ETC by your score. It's very accurate.
I believe I'm a weak to mid "A" player. Many folks can't beat me. Great players WILL beat me. I will make a mistake once per game when I'm playing like a B...when I'm playing my normal A game, I will make about 1 mistake in 5 games. If I'm not sure I'll make the shot, I'll make sure my opponent can't see a great shot either after, just in case I miss. I will safe if I'm not confident. If the table is open, I will usually get out. I will get out of line on my position occasionally, causing me to play safe. I am patient. I don't break up clusters unless I'm 90% sure I will make my shot...and have another shot almost guaranteed after the break out. When I'm playing B speed...(bad night) if I get a clean break where the ball are open...I may dog the run...when I'm playing my normal A game, I'm out. I don't let the cue ball loose, I control it as accurately as possible. I settle for short side position instead of trying to be a hero and do something crazy...I'm very conservative in my patterns and position play. I play the large part of the cone for position.

As far as Fargo ...I score 166 when I'm playing good...135 normally...and 100 on a bad day.

The rules and scores of Fargo are here...
http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/fargo_sheet.pdf

A "B" player, WILL play "A" speed some nights. I think every player will play up or down a level depending on the night.

 

[measureman]

Here in Colorado it's pretty simple based on the group we have in the state.
Pro
AAA
AA
A
B would be your average bar league player.
C

 

[DoubleA]

" I can't define it, but I know it when I see it".

 

[ronscuba]

John leyman with the tri state can watch you play a match and give a fair assessment of your skill level. Don't sand bag. The goal should be to play the best players you can, as often as you can, win or lose. If you are a C, then there's no honor in winning a $100 beating up on a D. After all, the real prize is getting better.

I agree. I was asking because I see a lot of variation in league handicaps. I have not done any tournaments.