curving an object ball....

[BRussell]

I think "they just play bigger" means that you have a higher make percentage at faster speed than you do at slower speeds. And this is obviously true since most top bankers use fast speed on most banks. Even mere mortals who haven't put in the playing time you guys have can improve their bank make-percentage with fast speed if they practice with it some.

For those interested, some of the reasons why fast speed helps make the "pockets play bigger" for banks are described on the advantages of fast speed banks resource page.

Regards,
Dave

Hmm, I would not have thought that's what it means. I would think it means "pocket speed" like Drop the Rock says above, or it means coming into the pocket at a more favorable angle - like coming straighter into the side pocket rather than at a sharper angle. That's different from "getting a more consistent bank angle" or some other aiming method that increases your accuracy.

 

[DTL]

...................

 

[Straightpool_99]

I never knew the ball would curve! I have always shot my banks hard, though. I guess it is one of those things that can be learned by trial and error, because I was never taught that. I figured it out after a long time of playing the line bank drill, where you line up a lot of balls and bank them with ball in hand. The shot DTL showed I find quite a bit more difficult with lag speed, while with a firmer speed I make it a lot more.

Interesting thread.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Heads exploding all over the place

 

[Corwyn_8]

Looking at that it doesn't look like it curves at all. It starts with the center just to the right of the line and then ends with the center just to the left of the line, and it travels straight down it.

Agreed. I am not seeing a curve (or much of one anyway). The line on the video is POST production, which means it doesn't account for distortion which might be present in the camera lens. I would like to see the line ON THE TABLE.

Thank you kindly.

p.s. Not disputing the finding, just not seeing it yet.

 

[Corwyn_8]

For those interested, some of the reasons why fast speed helps make the "pockets play bigger" for banks are described on the advantages of fast speed banks resource page.

Where it says

The disadvantage of faster speed is the reduced effective "size" of the pocket.

Can you explain this apparent contradiction?

Thank you kindly.


p.s. Can we dispense with this misleading terminology altogether. Everything that matters in our control over whether a ball falls in a pocket happens in that short time when cue tip hits cue ball. Some ways may make the allowable margin of error decrease or increase, but I don't see what is wrong with phrasing it like that.

 

[Banks]

Where it says



Can you explain this apparent contradiction?

Thank you kindly.

Rolling a ball in allows it to avoid rattling. All of the other variables make it tougher. While DTL is right about the mouth, coming in at an angle more parallel to the rail allows it to play bigger.

 

[Corwyn_8]

Rolling a ball in allows it to avoid rattling. All of the other variables make it tougher. While DTL is right about the mouth, coming in at an angle more parallel to the rail allows it to play bigger.

I must have been unclear in my question. Either the 'pocket is made bigger' by shooting hard or it isn't. For whatever you (or in this case DrDave) mean by that. He says (from my reading) both that it makes the pocket bigger and that it makes the pocket smaller. I am merely looking for a resolution to that contradiction.

Thank you kindly.

 

[Drop The Rock]

Hmm, I would not have thought that's what it means. I would think it means "pocket speed" like Drop the Rock says above, or it means coming into the pocket at a more favorable angle - like coming straighter into the side pocket rather than at a sharper angle. That's different from "getting a more consistent bank angle" or some other aiming method that increases your accuracy.

Pocket speed in One pocket is necessary for 2 main reasons besides making the bank 1) missing means leaving the ball in or as close to your pocket as possible and 2) if the case of short rail banks preventing the object ball from running into other balls or banking back in or by your opponents hole.

Although one pocket doesn't have any golden rules when it comes to this because sometimes you have to bank a ball with more speed in order to get your cue ball safe or freeze it on the end rail.

 

[Banks]

I must have been unclear in my question. Either the 'pocket is made bigger' by shooting hard or it isn't. For whatever you (or in this case DrDave) mean by that. He says (from my reading) both that it makes the pocket bigger and that it makes the pocket smaller. I am merely looking for a resolution to that contradiction.

Thank you kindly.

The speed alone may make it smaller, but the rest of the variables together more than make up for that one.

 

[Corwyn_8]

The speed alone may make it smaller, but the rest of the variables together more than make up for that one.

He said: "fast speed helps make the "pockets play bigger""
He said: "The disadvantage of faster speed is the reduced effective "size" of the pocket."

No other variables are in the conversation.

Thank you kindly.

 

[Banks]

He said: "fast speed helps make the "pockets play bigger""
He said: "The disadvantage of faster speed is the reduced effective "size" of the pocket."

No other variables are in the conversation.

Thank you kindly.

I think the confusion is in the wording. Hitting it fast/hard lessens the other variables. The speed itself doesn't help, imo.

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

When you shoot a bank hard you are shortening the rebound angle. When you do this toward the corner pocket the OB has more room for error because it can skim off the side rail and still go in. That's why the corner pockets also "play bigger"

 

[dr_dave]

I must have been unclear in my question. Either the 'pocket is made bigger' by shooting hard or it isn't. For whatever you (or in this case DrDave) mean by that. He says (from my reading) both that it makes the pocket bigger and that it makes the pocket smaller. I am merely looking for a resolution to that contradiction.

Look at the advantages of fast speed banks page again. There are many factors that help accuracy with fast-speed banks (i.e., the pocket seems to "play bigger"). The only disadvantage is that the actual effective size of a corner pocket is smaller at faster speeds (i.e., a slow-rolling ball is accepted by a corner pocket much easier than fast ball, especially if it doesn't have complete rolling topspin).

Again, faster speed definitely makes banks higher percentage for people who have put in lots of practice time.

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

Look at the advantages of fast speed banks page again. There are many factors that help accuracy with fast-speed banks (i.e., the pocket seems to "play bigger"). The only disadvantage is that the actual effective size of a corner pocket is smaller at faster speeds (i.e., a slow-rolling ball is accepted by a corner pocket much easier than fast ball, especially if it doesn't have complete rolling topspin).

Again, faster speed definitely makes banks higher percentage for people who have put in lots of practice time.

PS: If you revisit this page, make sure you hit the Refresh or Reload button in your browser because I've made several changes and improvements over the last couple of days, and the new version might not show up in your browser unless you force a new load.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Spimp13]

I think the confusion is in the wording. Hitting it fast/hard lessens the other variables. The speed itself doesn't help, imo.

This is probably one of the reasons I bank harder then some people as a whole. I don't trust most tables to roll true. I don't want that to be the reason I missed a bank. If my angle or stroke is off, ok that's on me.

 

[John Brumback]

I think "they just play bigger" means that you have a higher make percentage at faster speed than you do at slower speeds. And this is obviously true since most top bankers use fast speed on most banks. Even mere mortals who haven't put in the playing time you guys have can improve their bank make-percentage with fast speed if they practice with it some.

For those interested, some of the reasons why fast speed helps make the "pockets play bigger" for banks are described on the advantages of fast speed banks resource page.

Regards,
Dave

Hi Dave,my method works all over the table and with slow speed shots too. I don't have time right now to get into all that at this time,however. Working on my new teaching studio as we speak !! :thumbup: JB

 

[John Brumback]

Where it says



Can you explain this apparent contradiction?

Thank you kindly.


p.s. Can we dispense with this misleading terminology altogether. Everything that matters in our control over whether a ball falls in a pocket happens in that short time when cue tip hits cue ball. Some ways may make the allowable margin of error decrease or increase, but I don't see what is wrong with phrasing it like that.

That is way off base. And I can prove it but I can't give all me secrets away JB

 

[John Brumback]

The speed alone may make it smaller, but the rest of the variables together more than make up for that one.

Seems like i may have gave you a little lesson and that you are one of them good learners.:thumbup: JB

 

[ENGLISH!]

Geometrically maybe so... Effectively I don't think so maybe because of the turn on the cueball holding it up....

I understand what you are saying but if you are banking the 9ball I am going to hazard a guess that the hold up has a higher percentage for most players which is why actual bank players would prefer to hit it that way... As John said there is a method to banking the balls that he prefers.. After watching and filming him for years I can tell you a hold up is always preferred over using english to open the angle unless there is an obstacle... This is definitely where "in theory" and "in practice" are separate things...

--------------:thumbup2:------------------------

If a bank like that comes up short & hits the short rail just outside the point it has NO chance, ZERO, of pocketing.

If it goes a tad long & hits the long rail just outside the point it has a chance to 'rattle' in.

If the angle is coming more down the long rail it can hit farther up from the point & have a chance. Then if it still has any spin there is what some call helping spin but that can depend on what is hit first & the angle.

It's how "Players" increase their margin for success as they know that one can not always be perfect regardless of how much one tries to be...

& being more toward 'perfect' is to recognize that fact & then make more 'perfect' choices & decisions.

Best 2 Ya.
Rick

PS This was not for you as I know you know, but just food for thought for others.