Darren Appleton's comments on 9 on spot/ cue ball fouls/ pattern racking

[Hits 'em Hard]

the 2 key balls on the break are the 1 ball and 2 ball.. putting the 2ball at the back makes it a random ball it flys around the table and gets kissed a lot... rest of balls can be placed to land in a certain position esp 2 and 3 ..least with the two ball at the back it makes rest of the rack random layout.

with one ball on the spot the top guys worked out to guarantee the wing ball and get the one ball to land over one of the top pockets near enough.. professionals have masters this..

with 9ball on the spot the wing ball guarantee is taken away.. sometimes the one ball goes in the side..so the next lowest ball is 2ball so if thats racked at the back it can land anywhere so thats good because doesn't matter where rest of the balls are place when racking..

so this the best version of 9ball. and the toughest.

You seem to think I said something different than I intended. In 9-Ball the 1 and 9 are pre assigned locations. Your saying include the 2 into that. Which leaves 720 different possible rack patterns. If you were given a scoresheet that was a race to 11, there would be a possible 22 games. For those 22 games a pattern would be given for each game, no repeating patterns. That way no one could complain about someone using the same pattern over and over. Each game would require skill to get out.

Through that you could then track break and runs tied to patterns and correlate which patterns are the easiest.

 

[dynamite]

With all due respect to you for who you are in the industry I disagree. One of the biggest issues in this game is the 4000 formats that have developed over the last 15 years.

The game needs ONE Format not multiple ones. As it is OUR game I take issue with any of the formats that are not what 9 ball always was. Formats created by those that can't keep up in a winner breaks format, I.E. the Europeans & Those from China, Taiwan etc who championed these format changes because they couldn't compete in the format that the game was & should be. Pool is a sport where it is your inning until you miss, foul or play safe because there is no greater pressure than being strapped in the electric chair getting slapped with a package & more importantly how you respond when you get back to the table & that is a dynamic that should never be lost.

As far as templates go, Not crazy about foreign objects on the playing field but at least they provide a settled rack.

Lastly US players issues in the Mosconi Cup & World Championships are not about Formats, they're about foreign players receiving far more support from their home nations than our players receive in ours. Shane came within the bat of an eye of winning the last World Championship & in in a 1 on the spot winner breaks format as this game should be, well he'd probably have won. I believe with the proper support Mark Wilson will change our fortunes in Mosconi Cup play soon.

but USA have out broke us in mosconi cup last couple of years .. and shane got the best 9 on the spot break in the world... its tough out there so many great players nobody will ever dominate pool because too many good players and too much luck in the game.

But World 9ball and china open still play 1 ball on the spot with template which obviously again too easy but least everyone start on level playing field and thats the main object.

 

[dynamite]

You seem to think I said something different than I intended. In 9-Ball the 1 and 9 are pre assigned locations. Your saying include the 2 into that. Which leaves 720 different possible rack patterns. If you were given a scoresheet that was a race to 11, there would be a possible 22 games. For those 22 games a pattern would be given for each game, no repeating patterns. That way no one could complain about someone using the same pattern over and over. Each game would require skill to get out.

Through that you could then track break and runs tied to patterns and correlate which patterns are the easiest.

good points but would be too hard to follow because hardly any events got a referee and time. ...2 at the back travels the most usually so best option

pattern racking usually people put 123 first 3 balls...

D

 

[Joe_Jaguar]

Lastly US players issues in the Mosconi Cup & World Championships are not about Formats, they're about foreign players receiving far more support from their home nations than our players receive in ours.

People always throw this out there. Has any factual information ever been posted to say what this "support" amounts to?

 

[dynamite]

With the small exception that we need explicit rules about how to handle the template after the break. It's not so easy when multiple balls are on it including the possibly wired nine ball.

Agree pal.. but least everyone get the same

D

 

[Joe_Jaguar]

The fans love it when the 9-ball goes on the break.

Yeah, I can hardly control myself when a 9 ball goes in on the break.

 

[dynamite]

People always through this out there. Has any factual information ever been posted to say what this "support" amounts to?

Most european countries don't fund anything

only a select few like holland/ russia and maybe 1 or 2 others rest of us are on our own..
asia not many if any at all..

d

 

[Colonel]

Every Sport/Game should start as a level playing field and one set of rules ..

at the moment thats not the case it allows bad sportsmanship and players pulling moves happens all the time. And i don't blame the players i blame the rules/format implied.



Every Sport got one set of rules and start level playing field and pool should be no different.



This why pool so confusing and looked at as a joke to the outside world looking in.. evryone confused



And obviously people do find the rules/formats boring because nobody watches and got no respect for it.And on its Knees. All sports Tweak with rules to make it better and thats the way it should be in Pool, Rest of world are doing it so why shouldn't USA? still playing rules that are old school no good and outdated and only Damaging the game and the players... I don't get it.



All other sports that are successful play one set of rules worldwide and start level playing field and people find them NOT Boring so they must be doing something better than pool.



every event needs a players meeting to know what rules we playing madness..



One set of rules for each Discipline world wide then we got a chance.



Supposed to make the game tougher not easier



Its not about me practicing the rules or a different format i know what to do.. but i shouldn't need to learn how to rack the balls like a expert and study it for hours and hours on end to understand which gaps to leave to guarantee the wing ball,or which gap to leave to make the 9ball or if doesn't go in pocket its gonna be laying nicely for quick 2-9 3-9 combo.. or learn how to pattern rack to suite my break hours and hours on end... no thanks i will continue to do what i do and find a way to win my way.



but doesn't make difference to me DCC 9ball or turning stone not going to change my life if never win either one of them...



Im just trying to help the Game in the states... to follow the best rules by a mile what we play Worldwide which will benefit everyone from General public /Sponsors the players and the next generation on the world stage and learn them the game/sport the correct way.



I will keep trying my best to voice my opinion for the players and the game/sport.. and work with Organisers or give them good input if i can.

If you really want to help the game in the States then convince your mates from overseas to return the game to what it always was before all the Euros pushed for these format changes over the last 15 years. The best way to level a playing field for a player is to develop better skills in weaker areas, not push for format changes that negates those players shortcomings. While it may level the playing field for those who can't keep up, it offers an unfair burden to those that have put in the work.

As I said in a previous post, pool is a game where it's your inning until you foul, miss or play safe. It brings an important dynamic to the game that should never be lost, I.E. packages and momentum & pressure. Going back to your chair and turning the table over to your opponent to break after you just broke and ran a rack is ludicrous & punishment.

 

[Joe_Jaguar]

Most european countries don't fund anything

only a select few like holland/ russia and maybe 1 or 2 others rest of us are on our own..
asia not many if any at all..

d

Thank you. You just busted a lot of bubbles right there.:grin-square:

 

[dynamite]

lmao, of course Darren is complaining about the rules because he can't adapt/win by them as good as others can.


and for your information I've won at every different set of rules/ formats/games/ Disciplines/ etc Unlike anyone else.

so I've adapted ok to any game or situation

 

[dynamite]

If you really want to help the game in the States then convince your mates from overseas to return the game to what it always was before all the Euros pushed for these format changes over the last 15 years. The best way to level a playing field for a player is to develop better skills in weaker areas, not push for format changes that negates those players shortcomings. While it may level the playing field for those who can't keep up, it offers an unfair burden to those that have put in the work.

As I said in a previous post, pool is a game where it's your inning until you foul, miss or play safe. It brings an important dynamic to the game that should never be lost, I.E. packages and momentum & pressure. Going back to your chair and turning the table over to your opponent to break after you just broke and ran a rack is ludicrous & punishment.

we pushed for change because was needed. and to improve and make it cleaner .. and better on the eye.. winner break or alternate break doesn't matter...

1 ball on the spot regular rack 9 counts too easy and allows pulling moves and bad sportsmanship..standards too high now to play this way matches are over in a blink of a eye...

everyone wanted a fair level playing field and thats what we got.. and made it a little tougher. which good for the game..

Some tournaments still winner break i don't mind either I've won both ways as many others have..

all about making the game better and level playing field before lagging for the break

this why 10ball best now ... level worldwide too good for 9ball. but its still the best tv game and always will be

 

[dynamite]

If you really want to help the game in the States then convince your mates from overseas to return the game to what it always was before all the Euros pushed for these format changes over the last 15 years. The best way to level a playing field for a player is to develop better skills in weaker areas, not push for format changes that negates those players shortcomings. While it may level the playing field for those who can't keep up, it offers an unfair burden to those that have put in the work.

As I said in a previous post, pool is a game where it's your inning until you foul, miss or play safe. It brings an important dynamic to the game that should never be lost, I.E. packages and momentum & pressure. Going back to your chair and turning the table over to your opponent to break after you just broke and ran a rack is ludicrous & punishment.

we all played one ball on the spot until around 4-5 years ago.. organizers changed to make it tougher because the wing ball was wired was too easy..

u still get all the drama twists and turns pressure etc... just now in a fair way .:thumbup:

 

[Maxx]

lmao, of course Darren is complaining about the rules because he can't adapt/win by them as good as others can.


and for your information I've won at every different set of rules/ formats/games/ Disciplines/ etc Unlike anyone else.

so I've adapted ok to any game or situation

You do seem to do okay.

 

[actionplayer]

the 2 key balls on the break are the 1 ball and 2 ball.. putting the 2ball at the back makes it a random ball it flys around the table and gets kissed a lot... rest of balls can be placed to land in a certain position esp 2 and 3 ..least with the two ball at the back it makes rest of the rack random layout.

with one ball on the spot the top guys worked out to guarantee the wing ball and get the one ball to land over one of the top pockets near enough.. professionals have masters this..

with 9ball on the spot the wing ball guarantee is taken away.. sometimes the one ball goes in the side..so the next lowest ball is 2ball so if thats racked at the back it can land anywhere so thats good because doesn't matter where rest of the balls are place when racking..

so this the best version of 9ball. and the toughest.

the 2 at the back i do not see as a hindrance, yes it can get kicked but when most players pattern rack they put the 2 at the bottom so it comes off bottom rail and back up table and 3 on the other wing to come 3 rails up table

donny mills and orcullo do this a lot both have 6 packs racking this way on video

I get what your saying but like you stated at your post if the better players still come out on top what dos it really matter?

id rather see you playing in more finals than complaining about them

 

[dynamite]

the 2 at the back i do not see as a hindrance, yes it can get kicked but when most players pattern rack they put the 2 at the bottom so it comes off bottom rail and back up table and 3 on the other wing to come 3 rails up table

donny mills and orcullo do this a lot both have 6 packs racking this way on video

I get what your saying but like you stated at your post if the better players still come out on top what dos it really matter?

id rather see you playing in more finals than complaining about them

Personally i Would Rather see myself playing in a level field before lag the balls and make the game a little tougher..

not playing 6ball.and moves pulled left and right..

yes the best players still win but least its a better game and Fair.

and 90% Of the pros agree
:wink:

 

[Blackjack]

and 90% Of the pros agree
:wink:

Daz,
A few years ago, Tommy Kennedy and I came up with a way to solve this problem altogether ... just change everything to 1 ball. No safes, no combos, no pattern racking ... it cuts through the BS and speeds the whole thing up ... may the best man win!

:grin:

 

[corvette1340]

Personally i Would Rather see myself playing in a level field before lag the balls and make the game a little tougher..

not playing 6ball.and moves pulled left and right..

yes the best players still win but least its a better game and Fair.

and 90% Of the pros agree
:wink:

then put up some money or get someone to put up some money and fund a tour or tourneys with the set of rules that YOU desire. Otherwise, practice for the set of rules in place at other promoters' tourneys like everyone else does. Do you think Shane would have such a dominant break in 9 ball and 10 ball if he didn't practice it so damn much?

The comment you made about not wanting to learn and study the rack or which patterns are best is just plain stupid. You may not agree with it, but until the format changes the ones that know it the best are gonna have the advantage. You don't want to be one of those people?

I'll bring it back to when Corey learned the soft break, he told me he literally broke tens of thousands of times and studied the patterns and the speed at which he broke until he had it down to a science. Everyone cried because they thought it made 9-ball too easy, but they all damn sure tried to copy it until everyone was doing it and they implemented all of the breaking rules and changes.

So, that being said, until the rules change to what you want, you should do what gives you the best chance at winning, and it obviously isn't what you did at derby city.

 

[PoolBum]

I just wonder about the 9 on the break. That seems to be the focus of his criticism. Is it really that common? Do we have stats on how common it was at the Derby 9-ball? I saw a couple, but it couldn't have been more than about 1/20 games.

I believe the numbers from Accu-Stats (though this may be going back a ways) say the 9 goes in on the break on average 1 in 35 times for pros. I think that's unless the 9 is wired somehow to move toward the pocket.

 

[cleary]

I just don't see why every tourney should have the same exact set of rules. That's boring, especially for spectators.

You're a golf fan, imagine if every tournament has different rules. One tournament no sand wedges, the next tournament you lose four strokes for water hazard. Next tournament, a hole in one doesn't count. That's what pool is like. Not only do they have to adjust to different table sizes, pocket sized and different rails depending on table and clement... (Sort of like adjusting to different golf courses), but they have have to play by whatever rules that promoter prefers.

No other sport changes the rules. They're all standard, which makes them legitimate. Pool is a joke on the professional level.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Pattern racking is easily solved.

Anybody ever heard of Kelly pool?

Assume the rule is that the one is always the head ball, the nine is in the middle, and the two is at the back of the rack.

Use a Kelly pool bottle with pill numbers 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 inside the bottle. The opponent shakes the bottle and then the pills are pulled. Starting at front left to right, behind the one ball, place the balls in the order the pills were pulled.

Problem solved.