Darren Appleton's view on Tips - agree or disagree???
- Thread starter Cardigan Kid
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Im in the same boat with you. I dont personally see any benefits of a soft tip for my game. I like harder tips for the same reason you do, long shots are easier for me with them
Ahgao86
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Reviving this thread! I'm playing with a 3/8x11 to wood joint Prather Cue with a maple shaft and I've always used a moori medium tip. When I got back to playing a couple of months ago, I would say that the leather tip has aged and has grown a little bit harder but still pretty much medium hard. My recollection of that tip was that the "feel" and the sound of the tip hitting the ball was good. I kinda enjoyed it. I subsequently changed my tip to a kamui clear black SS, and I would say that the crisp sound is lesser, however I feel that I've got more control over the cue ball. I can play further off the center with lesser fear of a miscue. With regards to drawing the cue ball, I kinda feel that a softer tip actually allows me to draw the cue ball easier, but I might be wrong. I will be receiving a new OB+ Classic shaft with a medium tip and I will try that out, then subsequently change to a softer tip and post my findings here. In the meantime, anyone else has got any updates to post over the last few months? :grin:
I just changed the tip on my playing shaft and I'm hoping I like it. I will pick it up tomorrow and try it out Sunday. I use a Predator 314-2 FAT shaft on a Titlist butt.
I hated the Everest tip that was on the shaft when I got it, so I changed it to a Kamui Black Super Soft. When that tip was first put on, I didn't like it either. It was too tall and seemed too sticky or something. After playing with it for a while, I cut a few layers off and it played a lot better. That tip lasted for a few years because I only play once a week. Last Sunday, I decided it was too worn down and gave it to the cue repair guy to be replaced.
I haven't experimented with tips in a long time, so I decided to replace it with a Kamui Black Medium. According to the hardness scale, it is quite a bit harder and is close to a Le Pro. I don't consider Le Pro to be a hard tip and always liked them and used them for years, until they seemed to be unreliable in their consistency when you bought them. I hope I like this tip, but it may take a bit of playing to adjust to the change in hardness.
I don't like "babying" the balls, so I hope I don't have to adjust my stroke down too much to compensate for the extra "bounce" the harder tip is going to give me.
I hated the Everest tip that was on the shaft when I got it, so I changed it to a Kamui Black Super Soft. When that tip was first put on, I didn't like it either. It was too tall and seemed too sticky or something. After playing with it for a while, I cut a few layers off and it played a lot better. That tip lasted for a few years because I only play once a week. Last Sunday, I decided it was too worn down and gave it to the cue repair guy to be replaced.
I haven't experimented with tips in a long time, so I decided to replace it with a Kamui Black Medium. According to the hardness scale, it is quite a bit harder and is close to a Le Pro. I don't consider Le Pro to be a hard tip and always liked them and used them for years, until they seemed to be unreliable in their consistency when you bought them. I hope I like this tip, but it may take a bit of playing to adjust to the change in hardness.
I don't like "babying" the balls, so I hope I don't have to adjust my stroke down too much to compensate for the extra "bounce" the harder tip is going to give me.
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Does anyone know what TIP uses now? What do most of the pros like most (I know many will say the brand name that sponsors them - mostly I am trying to get a good idea what is most used by the pros today) Thanks any input is appreciated...
I believe Tao (sp?) are pretty popular with the pros. I always used to just play whatever was on the cue when I picked it up, and honestly I didn't really know the differences from tip to tip. I had always heard that soft tips help apply better spin so when it was time to get a tip put in I went with a soft because I spin the A LOT. I also like soft because I " feel " like it gives me more feel than the harder ones and playing a lot of one hole I encounter a lot more of touch shots and slow rolls than in 9 ball. Been using Elk masters for a while now and are happy with them plus I don't really care for trying a bunch of different tips. To me it also seems soft retains chalk better too. One downside is you have to be more careful when scuffing / maintenance than the hard ones imo. Not a huge fan of layered either.
I dunno if anyone else mentioned this, but maybe darren's comment is mostly about maintenance...
i.e. there's no reason to go out of your way for a harder tip
unless you're a big-stroke type of player who's pounding the cue ball firmly all the time,
in which case a soft one might mushroom so fast it becomes a hassle.
Otherwise, he could be talking about the fact that harder tips seem more prone to miscues when you
hit the extreme edges/bottom of the cue ball. I think that's because the hard material doesn't roughen up
as easily when the tip is scuffed, and/or it doesn't trap the chalk particles quite as well.
So if you need extreme draw for example, it's probably easier to just hit
close to the miscue limit and use less force, vs. hitting well within the safe zone for draw,
but having to put a giant stroke on it.
i.e. there's no reason to go out of your way for a harder tip
unless you're a big-stroke type of player who's pounding the cue ball firmly all the time,
in which case a soft one might mushroom so fast it becomes a hassle.
Otherwise, he could be talking about the fact that harder tips seem more prone to miscues when you
hit the extreme edges/bottom of the cue ball. I think that's because the hard material doesn't roughen up
as easily when the tip is scuffed, and/or it doesn't trap the chalk particles quite as well.
So if you need extreme draw for example, it's probably easier to just hit
close to the miscue limit and use less force, vs. hitting well within the safe zone for draw,
but having to put a giant stroke on it.
I have done thousands of shots testing my tips and in many ways.
The one shot I enjoy most is marking the table for the object ball to be one foot from the side pocket and another marking for the cue ball one foot from the other side and off set 1/4 to 1/2 a ball from the outside of object ball meaning I need extreme inside English to make the ball in the side and have the cue ball reverse towards the end rail.
The softer tip given the same stroke will spin further towards the back rail but not travel as far to that rail and you can hit it more aggressively and it still won't get there, The harder tip will allow you to get there with a very aggressive stroke but depending on your ability, concentration and stroke can make the ball harder to make but this is what can/could separate a player that plays 6 - 8 hours a day to a person that plays once a week.
On speed cloth and speed rails playing 1 pocket I prefer to go soft as I want that little more grip on short shots to help me get around for safety's etc. For games like 9 ball, speed cloth speed rails I go to a medium as I may need that more aggressive stroke to get me there. A little younger, freewheeling with more confidence I might go with a Hard.
On the Pro players and money sadly I think the 115th ranked player in Pool will make about 4-5 thousand dollars, not including expenses. The 115th ranked Golfer, well, he is making about a Million Dollars not including endorsements. I prefer to play with Gentlemen bets say $5.00 and $10.00 a game and just enjoy playing :smile:
The one shot I enjoy most is marking the table for the object ball to be one foot from the side pocket and another marking for the cue ball one foot from the other side and off set 1/4 to 1/2 a ball from the outside of object ball meaning I need extreme inside English to make the ball in the side and have the cue ball reverse towards the end rail.
The softer tip given the same stroke will spin further towards the back rail but not travel as far to that rail and you can hit it more aggressively and it still won't get there, The harder tip will allow you to get there with a very aggressive stroke but depending on your ability, concentration and stroke can make the ball harder to make but this is what can/could separate a player that plays 6 - 8 hours a day to a person that plays once a week.
On speed cloth and speed rails playing 1 pocket I prefer to go soft as I want that little more grip on short shots to help me get around for safety's etc. For games like 9 ball, speed cloth speed rails I go to a medium as I may need that more aggressive stroke to get me there. A little younger, freewheeling with more confidence I might go with a Hard.
On the Pro players and money sadly I think the 115th ranked player in Pool will make about 4-5 thousand dollars, not including expenses. The 115th ranked Golfer, well, he is making about a Million Dollars not including endorsements. I prefer to play with Gentlemen bets say $5.00 and $10.00 a game and just enjoy playing :smile:
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From Darren's Facebook page....
When a player of Darren's calibre speaks in absolutes, I always listen and try to learn, but this little exchange threw me for a loop.
"Unless u blessed with big stroke and lot of cue power everyone should be playing with a soft tip or super soft"
Now I always thought a soft tip took something off your stroke, and the harder the tip, the more power is transferred to the cue ball, but here it appears Darren disagrees.
What do you think of Darren's absolute view on tips?
And do you follow his advice?
I was told the chalk impregnated "Blue Diamond" is a good tip. Just like Elkmaster is chalk impregnated. Has anyone tried the Blue Diamond?
That's what I always say.. but most of the nits on here seem to think they are and no more then world champs lol
I recently went to a soft tip and can tell you I love it. The hit just feels better. I'm getting all the spin I want and I feel coming off the rail when I can only see a small piece of the cue ball the hit is more consistent..
It was personally interesting to read Darren's comments about tips.
3 years ago I became displeased playing with Kamui Black medium due to its tendency to glaze.
I switched to the Kamui Clear Black and ordered both soft and super-soft versions from Shooter 08.
Tom is a great guy and we discussed various brands of tips since he's with Wisconsin Billiard Supply.
He suggested the Clear series and recommended going down in hardness which turned out great.
I now play with Kamui Clear Black in soft hardness and it is wonderful......it's the best tip changeover.
The change to a softer cue tip allows me increased control and better feel when I stroke the cue ball.
IMO, feedback on your cue stroke is very important which is why all my ivory joint cues are built alike.
My cues (except the EP cue) use Kamui Clear Black soft tips in a soft hardness & IMO, Darren was right
Matt B.
3 years ago I became displeased playing with Kamui Black medium due to its tendency to glaze.
I switched to the Kamui Clear Black and ordered both soft and super-soft versions from Shooter 08.
Tom is a great guy and we discussed various brands of tips since he's with Wisconsin Billiard Supply.
He suggested the Clear series and recommended going down in hardness which turned out great.
I now play with Kamui Clear Black in soft hardness and it is wonderful......it's the best tip changeover.
The change to a softer cue tip allows me increased control and better feel when I stroke the cue ball.
IMO, feedback on your cue stroke is very important which is why all my ivory joint cues are built alike.
My cues (except the EP cue) use Kamui Clear Black soft tips in a soft hardness & IMO, Darren was right
Matt B.
From Darren's Facebook page....
When a player of Darren's calibre speaks in absolutes, I always listen and try to learn, but this little exchange threw me for a loop.
"Unless u blessed with big stroke and lot of cue power everyone should be playing with a soft tip or super soft"
Now I always thought a soft tip took something off your stroke, and the harder the tip, the more power is transferred to the cue ball, but here it appears Darren disagrees.
What do you think of Darren's absolute view on tips?
And do you follow his advice?
Ok, three things that actually matter with regard to hardness, diameter, and layered versus non layered.
1. A hard tip produces a different feel in the hit than a soft tip will. I have found with my cues over years of shooting a soft tip combined with a wood to wood joint equals almost no vibration or feeling through the shot. A hard tip with a stainless steel joint produces a shot I feel from contact all the way to my back hand. Depending on which shot feels right to you should help guide your tip selection.
2. Diameter: a wider diameter in my experience makes it more difficult to miss the target area on a cue ball, but can magnify squirt if my back arm isn't in perfect alignment through the shot. A smaller tip like an 11.75 makes it easier to miss the targeted spot, but also can impart unintended spin if my stroke is not clean (hence the less forgiving element, but also can be lower deflection)
3. Layered vs non layered: A layered tip, if glued together properly, is less likely to mushroom out than a single layer tip. A harder tip will also mushroom out much less often than the soft and super soft tips. Therefore, the hardness of the tip and construction play a factor in how much maintenance a tip requires.
What I believe Darren may have been trying to get at is that unless you shoot the cue ball very hard on a regular basis, you are not going to shoot enough games or hard enough to make your tip require more maintenance. A softer tip can be much more forgiving as well as part of the absorption I mentioned in the first point with the feel of the hit. Also if you are not dedicated to learning a clean stroke to apply proper english, a softer tip allows you to impart spin (see several posts about the difference between spin and english), with a little more successful results for position and cheating pockets rather than having to stroke a shot purely.
Unless this is what Darren was trying to hint at, I'm not sure why he would make that kind of statement
Many missed the intent.
This thread (as many others) quickly changed into another what tip is best thread.
The intent was isolated to Darren's suggested tip on the REVO shaft.
When Fred said he changed to the same med tip he had been using on his other shafts, Darren suggested that a softer tip was a better choice on the REVO shaft.
They come with the soft tip, I have tried a Med but after one session I switched back.
Considering going even softer but I plan on giving the soft a little more time first.
That said, obviously everyone's opinion is as good as the next but the REVO shaft isn't.
With my stroke I agree with his suggestion.
This thread (as many others) quickly changed into another what tip is best thread.
The intent was isolated to Darren's suggested tip on the REVO shaft.
When Fred said he changed to the same med tip he had been using on his other shafts, Darren suggested that a softer tip was a better choice on the REVO shaft.
They come with the soft tip, I have tried a Med but after one session I switched back.
Considering going even softer but I plan on giving the soft a little more time first.
That said, obviously everyone's opinion is as good as the next but the REVO shaft isn't.
With my stroke I agree with his suggestion.