But if he doesn't show, will you pay?
Darren Forfeits Beloit
- Thread starter BJTyler
- Start date
But if he doesn't show, will you pay?
I think anyone who has been around pool knows that it is highly likely that, if you're in a tournament, you will end up playing late and possibly playing early the next day. Happens all the time.
And plenty of people work long hours, multiple jobs, and have to perform under pressure. And then they do it again, and then again, and again all week long, all month long, all year long -- and not just for a couple of days. Nothing unique there either.
Lastly, as I said before, DA "owes" no one anything. However, it would have been classy to make a gesture of amends. To me, it's kind of like jelly. No one owes anyone jelly but it is often the right thing to do. YMMV.
Lou Figueroa
And plenty of people work long hours, multiple jobs, and have to perform under pressure. And then they do it again, and then again, and again all week long, all month long, all year long -- and not just for a couple of days. Nothing unique there either.
Lastly, as I said before, DA "owes" no one anything. However, it would have been classy to make a gesture of amends. To me, it's kind of like jelly. No one owes anyone jelly but it is often the right thing to do. YMMV.
Lou Figueroa
While pool to many of us is the greatest of games, and we would more than likely play it if we were the only ones in the world to do so.
If one ever wanted pool to become more than it has been at the professional level, you kinda need the things that made other sports popular and professional. They are called rules. You can't just go with the flow on feelings or what an audience member thinks (yes a backer is simply an audience member).
http://www.barryrhodes.com/2011/02/penalty-for-being-late-on-first-tee.html
To add though, professional pool has a lot more problems than a late player currently. Things like, a "professional" governing body, a steady tour, and steady sponsorship.
If one ever wanted pool to become more than it has been at the professional level, you kinda need the things that made other sports popular and professional. They are called rules. You can't just go with the flow on feelings or what an audience member thinks (yes a backer is simply an audience member).
http://www.barryrhodes.com/2011/02/penalty-for-being-late-on-first-tee.html
To add though, professional pool has a lot more problems than a late player currently. Things like, a "professional" governing body, a steady tour, and steady sponsorship.
2strong4u
Banned
Hoping this will be a humbling experience for DA. Not sure it's really sunk in the he screwed up and let a lot of people down.
He needs to stop comparing shooting pool to regular people's work. Probably shouldn't be out drinking on a work night if you want to make the comparison.
If it were my money, I'd be livid. The OP already said he's done backing and supporting pro pool. He deserves a little more than online apologies, but it's pool so F him. That attitude is why pool goes nowhere.
He needs to stop comparing shooting pool to regular people's work. Probably shouldn't be out drinking on a work night if you want to make the comparison.
If it were my money, I'd be livid. The OP already said he's done backing and supporting pro pool. He deserves a little more than online apologies, but it's pool so F him. That attitude is why pool goes nowhere.
This is so true what is highlighted in red. When you have played competitive pool all day long and then try to unwind to get to sleep, you're still seeing pool balls dancing in your mind. You just cannot turn it off. It is hard to get your body relaxed enough to go to sleep. Seen this many, many times with one I know who used to play competitively.
No offense to the tournament host, as I respect anyone who invested in pool. This is a rarity and a godsend to all. With that said, nobody should have to play pool at 10 a.m. in the morning after being up late at night because of exactly what is highlighted in red above. If you play pool for a living, you might understand this better.
For those who are comparing pool to their 9-to-5 jobs, yes, pool is a job for some folks, but in no way is it the same. You must perform well in order to get paid in pool; in most cases, you must win, place, or show to break even for expenses. As was stated, especially in high-profile events, you're stuck $2,000 before you hit the first ball.
To Darren, I'm pretty sure if Angie had been by your side, there is no way this would have happened.Further, it is true that most of the bashers on AzBilliards are usually the first ones standing in line to get an autograph, have their picture taken with the pro player, or better yet, ask you to give them an autographed picture or sign a cueball and mail it to them for free.
Congratulations to Skyler. This was a great win for the kid, especially double-dipping Shane. Thank you to the pool room owner who hosted this event and added funds to the purse to make it happen. And thank you, Darren, for being brave enough to post in AzBilliards, the place where pro players are deemed as pariahs and no-good bums. Stay on Facebook. The air on Facebook is easier to breathe for the pro player.
I have that problem after playing league nights.
Sucks not being able to go to sleep until midnight and then up at 5 to make money.Or atleast stop by the room on the way to tha airport ,, instead of waiting someone tells you what's happening in the social media
1
I have that problem after playing league nights.
True dat. At least when you're up at 5 to make money, you have a guaranteed paycheck if you show up for work. Pool players are guaranteed no paycheck and must win, place, or show to break even at most pool events.
It is silly to compare a stereotypical 9-to-5 job to playing pool for a living. Yeah, I know, I know. Nobody asked them to shoot pool for living. I'm sure that's coming next.
Pro pool players suck on this forum, always have and always will. Time to move on to the next flavor of the week for AzBilliards' members to villify. Who will it be next?
If this were pretty much any other sport, he wouldn't even get that.
If a boxer turns up for a fight out of shape or untrained, does he refund all the losing bettors when he loses? Nope.
I know you're probably venting on this thread in general, but please note that I never said nor insinuated any of that, nor was I comparing anything. Just making a simple comment.
Hey, I have to work long 16-hour days, just to survive. If I don't show up to work, I go under and can't pay my bills. I get that, so I understand where you're coming from.
The expenses for a pro pool player to be able to go to work far outweigh the stereotypical job, i.e., entry fees, travel expenses, food on the road, hotel lodging, proper tournament attire at some venues, comfortable shoes, pool cues, pool cue maintenance, et cetera, et cetera.
With that said, a pool player who earns $100,000 per annum, about a third of that goes to taxes and at least another third of that goes to expenses. At the end of the day, that $100,000 the pool player earns doesn't go as far as, say, if you or I earned $100,000 going to our 9-to-5 job.
I have seen up front and close what it's like to compete in pool all day long or be in pool combat all day long into the wee hours of the morning. Darren is a young man and can probably fade it better than most, but it does take its toll on you. Playing pool in the morning is not an ideal situation after you've been up late at night competing all day long. And then, if you miss the money ball or your concentration is not good because of fatigue, you lose. You don't get paid one red cent, yet you've expended $2,500 or so ($2,000 entry fee and miscellaneous expsenses) to have the opportunity to earn a living.
All this has been discussed before on AzBilliards, though. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from, just like I know where you're coming from as it pertains to working a traditional job.
Playing pool for a living is fun and can be quite adventurous, traveling the globe, living out of a suitcase, but having been there and done that for a few years, I'd rather have a sure thing, a guaranteed income with me putting in the time and hours. I like being with my dog Mickey. I love my Home Sweet Home. The pool lifestyle is a rich man's high. It's not really suited for family or marriage. It will takes its toll on you, eventually.
Every pool player has a streak, some longer than others. One thing for sure, though, it won't last forever. To all the pro players out there, enjoy the ride while you're riding high. I wish 'em the best. It's a dog-eat-dog world in pool. To play at a professional level, each pro player sacrifices a lot of life's simple joys. There's no loyalty in pool, and in the end, the only one you can truly depend on is yourself.
Last edited:
Darren
Darren, everything you said parallels the past 30 + years of my play experience (cept the US Open) with the only difference is the nut was $1,000 instead of the current $2K nut. This past weekend if I was to of won my last match (I arrived at 10:30 am, first match 7pm) I would of been done around 2 am ish, then I would of had a 40 minute drive home, and then a 40 minute drive back because I would also of played again at 10 am. Samo/samo for decades. Nicky and I played in the Midwest collegiate finals 1969, so I'm no youngster anymore, but I definitely understand the GRIND. I loved your jump shot on the hill where you made the two ball in the side pocket to win, when you were up 9-1, but seeing you starting to catch the sides of the pocket/twice on the nine ball (tho you made em both) I could see the wear and tear it took to gain an 8 game lead. Keep it going my friend, tho were not friends, just happened to take similar paths in life.
Darren, everything you said parallels the past 30 + years of my play experience (cept the US Open) with the only difference is the nut was $1,000 instead of the current $2K nut. This past weekend if I was to of won my last match (I arrived at 10:30 am, first match 7pm) I would of been done around 2 am ish, then I would of had a 40 minute drive home, and then a 40 minute drive back because I would also of played again at 10 am. Samo/samo for decades. Nicky and I played in the Midwest collegiate finals 1969, so I'm no youngster anymore, but I definitely understand the GRIND. I loved your jump shot on the hill where you made the two ball in the side pocket to win, when you were up 9-1, but seeing you starting to catch the sides of the pocket/twice on the nine ball (tho you made em both) I could see the wear and tear it took to gain an 8 game lead. Keep it going my friend, tho were not friends, just happened to take similar paths in life.
The expenses would be taken off his taxes, as expenses. I make a little more than that, and I am telling you can live comfortably on that amount.
Ken
Don't ever compare a carpenter to a pool player.
Many people who have a 40-50hr per week job with kids and a mortgage has it just as tough.
Not making it to work on time could mean losing a job and not being able to pay for basic amenities. Your in the upper class of pool players, I've played long, late sets in league and been unable to have my brain turn off and not falling asleep until 2-3am..
I don't get to sleep in, I've never had issues with my alarm not waking me.
As a world class player, I'd expect world class decisions being made. In terms of making it to the matches on time..I'd expect to take that for granted.
You don't owe anyone anything, or any excuses. This situation will buff out. Although I don't agree with it being any tougher than a regular job, because for you, with your skills you have the opportunity to have much more than the average person... And there's only a handful of pool players in the world with that opportunity.
I've purchased your instructional, streamed many ppv's you've been a part of. Now do me a favour and stay home from this years mosconi cup so the American team actually stands a chance!
Hey, I have to work long 16-hour days, just to survive. If I don't show up to work, I go under and can't pay my bills. I get that, so I understand where you're coming from.
The expenses for a pro pool player to be able to go to work far outweigh the stereotypical job, i.e., entry fees, travel expenses, food on the road, hotel lodging, proper tournament attire at some venues, comfortable shoes, pool cues, pool cue maintenance, et cetera, et cetera.
With that said, a pool player who earns $100,000 per annum, about a third of that goes to taxes and at least another third of that goes to expenses. At the end of the day, that $100,000 the pool player earns doesn't go as far as, say, if you or I earned $100,000 going to our 9-to-5 job.
I have seen up front and close what it's like to compete in pool all day long or be in pool combat all day long into the wee hours of the morning. Darren is a young man and can probably fade it better than most, but it does take its toll on you. Playing pool in the morning is not an ideal situation after you've been up late at night competing all day long. And then, if you miss the money ball or your concentration is not good because of fatigue, you lose. You don't get paid one red cent, yet you've expended $2,500 or so ($2,000 entry fee and miscellaneous expsenses) to have the opportunity to earn a living.
All this has been discussed before on AzBilliards, though. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from, just like I know where you're coming from as it pertains to working a traditional job.
Playing pool for a living is fun and can be quite adventurous, traveling the globe, living out of a suitcase, but having been there and done that for a few years, I'd rather have a sure thing, a guaranteed income with me putting in the time and hours. I like being with my dog Mickey. I love my Home Sweet Home. The pool lifestyle is a rich man's high. It's not really suited for family or marriage. It will takes its toll on you, eventually.
Every pool player has a streak, some longer than others. One thing for sure, though, it won't last forever. To all the pro players out there, enjoy the ride while you're riding high. I wish 'em the best. It's a dog-eat-dog world in pool. To play at a professional level, each pro player sacrifices a lot of life's simple joys. There's no loyalty in pool, and in the end, the only one you can truly depend on is yourself.
Out of our 100,000, we also pay taxes, house payments(if we're lucky) gas, trash pickup,electric,water, car insurance,etc. Also not much left.
Ken, I had over twenty years with similar income, sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less. And I live in Los Angeles, not such a cheap place to live. Some wise investments in real estate have helped make me financially comfortable today. It's all about how you manage your money whether you end up broke or solvent.
I've been advising Shane for several years now and I can tell you he won't end up broke! :wink:
P.S. I worked many 60-70 hour weeks owning poolrooms, with 50 hours being a slow week. I went years without vacations to make my business (and my life) successful. Just last year I worked sixteen hour days at the U.S. Open when I was really not able to do it. I needed help and had none, so I gutted it out for six days. Of course I came home sick. All that said, it's not an easy life trying to make it as a pool player. Only a handful of players are successful at it, Darren being one of them. Do we hold these elite players to a higher standard? You bet we do!
Last edited:
RBC
Deceased
2strong
I understand and respect your thoughts, but as one directly involved in the industry, I do have a few comments.
I don't think Darren compared being a Pro with a 9 to 5. That was someone else, and I think they were talking about the differences, not similarities.
As for "drinking on a work night", I don't there's anyone who regularly finishes as well as Darren does. Whatever he chooses to do, it's working for him.
Now, about the money, a backers supporting Pro Pool. The OP bought Darren in the calcutta. He didn't pay his entry, or send him to the tournament, or pay his hotel. He was a bystander who was trying to capitalize through a gamble. I wouldn't call buying a player in a calcutta an effort to support anything about pool. In actuality, it takes money from pool as opposed to putting it in. Gambling in pool, which is what a calcutta is, has nothing to do with the finances of the pool industry or pro pool. It's just like when a group of local players all want to go to the pool room and gamble with each other. Most don't want to spend any money at the room because that takes away from their stake. Often, they even expect table time to be free. All the money that changes hands is between them. None of it goes to the room owner. And, those very players will be the ones complaining when the pool room goes out of business.
Pool needs more people spending some of their hard earned dollars to enjoy a night out playing pool, and less players out there trying to make their car payment.
Royce
I have that problem after playing league nights.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one lol. I cut my leagues down to Monday night because I'm off Tuesday. I just can do the four hour sleep nights any more. The 3 or 4 games I get to play at some acs or bca league isn't worth the staring at the ceiling until midnight.
I disagree, the calcutta is a big part of the tournament experience for the players and more importantly the fans. When something like this happens it is a big deal imo for several reasons. Put me in the camp that says he should make an effort to make amends. I am a big Darren fan but when you mess up you got to do whats right and imo making amends is the right thing to do.
Royce, I think your claim about the the calcutta money not supporting pool in any way is off base.
I don't think anyone can claim to know where calcutta money ends up. But it is money that is part of the pool/pool room economy. Who knows. The guy who wins calcutta dough might even end up buying a couple of OB shafts with their winnings.
Lou Figueroa