DCC Review

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I had a nice chat with Greg earlier today about the recent DCC and what can be done to make it better next year. He still must negotiate with the Horseshoe to work out the planning for next year's event. It's not a done deal by any means, but at least now they know it will bring a lot of people to the hotel/casino. Considering the storm, it was a pleasant surprise to see so many people in house. Half their staff didn't show up for work, but the pool players found a way to get there.

A few things he mentioned were that he would like to negotiate for a little better room rate. Maybe $99 a night all ten days. As far as the match scheduling goes, Greg informed me that the fellow who created the new program for the computer had a back up plan that also failed. Greg and he are working on a new way of structuring the event to make the scheduling easier. He realizes there is a problem there. One of the things we talked about was giving players a limited amount of time for their buy-backs after a match ended. Also allowing a player to make his buy-back in advance, when he sends in his entry.

Another idea Greg had was to offer an enclosed security area where players could leave their cues, so they didn't have to tote them everywhere they go. Another big plus was a plan to leave not only your cue, but your cell phone number as well. You would be called when your match was coming up, with say a half hour advance notice. Someone would call to let you know your match was next up and what table you would be on. That would be a wonderful addition and make it easier for players to move around on the property, and not have to worry about staying close to the tournament area at all times.

One of the big problems with running this event on time, happens during the One Pocket portion of the tourney. Some matches are taking over three hours (even four hours) and causing major problems in making a draw for the next round. How to shorten these matches was something we talked about at length. I suggested he institute a rule that has proved beneficial in the one day One Pocket events we hold out here. I didn't like this rule at first, but now see how workable it is, and how much time it saves.

Here is the rule in capsule form. I'd like to hear some feedback on this. We call it the Four Ball rule. Once there are four balls within the head string the ball closest to the end rail gets re-spotted. That way there is never a game where all the balls end up down table. It speeds up the game and insures there are no unreasonably long games. Like I said I didn't like it at first. But after playing this way a few times, I realize that it only changes the strategy somewhat. The best player will still win.

Every time a fourth ball gets sent up table, one ball is going to be re-spotted. That is basically how it works, and it does work. Using such a rule, a game lasting longer than half an hour would be a rarity. And trust me when I tell you, the best One Pocket players will still dominate. If anything it adds an element of skill and strategy that favors better players. When there are three balls up table you must play a shot with that in mind.

Okay, let me know what you think.
 
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I think that the security idea for the cues is ingenious. Almost like a coat check. As for one pocket...I do not know much about it but would a shot clock work?
 
MJR77 said:
I think that the security idea for the cues is ingenious. Almost like a coat check. As for one pocket...I do not know much about it but would a shot clock work?

The problem with a shot clock is now you must have referees to handle it. We are looking for solutions where players can run their own matches, just like they've been doing all these years. There are simply too many matches (with 350-400 player fields) to have a ref for every table.
 
real bartram said:
we need more tables for action.
it was hard to get a table before 12 or 1 am

Greg is working on that too. Maybe we need The Bartram Room just for you. :wink:
 
As for that new One Pocket rule, I personally don't care for it. I don't usually play in the one pocket, but I considered staying this year for it too. Playing just a tad better bank than I do One Pocket, thats about my only advantage over the guys who play better at say, 14.1 and run out better. So naturally, I won't like it. Would it keep me from playing next year? Probably not. If I enter an event, I do so knowing I have to play by the directors rules. As long as I know far enough in advance the new rule will be used.
 
jay helfert said:
The problem with a shot clock is now you must have referees to handle it. We are looking for solutions where players can run their own matches, just like they've been doing all these years. There are simply too many matches (with 350-400 player fields) to have a ref for every table.
That makes sense to me... The four ball rule sounds like a good idea to me
 
Another thing I feel slowed play down was that, due to the scarcity of places to practice, players took longer to warm upon arrival at their assigned tables than would be customary.

On another note, if there's a shot that I hate the most in one pocket, it's the one where, with opponent needing just one more ball, pocketing that ball while committing a foul means that the ball does not count for opponent and the game continues after that ball and another are spotted. I've seen that add over an hour to a rack. I would allow this tactic only with the score 7-7, otherwise that ball should count for opponent if pocketed, thereby ending the game. Just like the time-honored tactic of knocking balls uptable with the lead, this traditional delay of game tactic lengthens the game.
 
match in reno

hey jay stan and edwin still in for chris and jon? stan said he was waiting to hear from you bout something? get ahold of him i guess, see you in reno!
 
bignasty said:
hey jay stan and edwin still in for chris and jon? stan said he was waiting to hear from you bout something? get ahold of him i guess, see you in reno!


The balls is in their court now. Stan knows about the game and it is up to him to find a backer for his end. Edwin said he is down for it if it comes off. Chris and John are ready to rumble. :angry:
 
Cue Check: There is a guy who does this and already has the setup for it. His business is called Cue Guard and he has a steel cage that is staffed 24/7 in Vegas for this purpose. Find him.

Notifications: Text Messages - can be sent from any internet connected computer. Can also send out BULK messages to all players - such as - round two boards are up.

One Pocket match length/shot clock: Chess clocks. Each match has a time limit and when a player takes his shot then he punches his clock. When a player's time is up then the player who is ahead wins the match.

Buy Backs: have a time limit - 15 minutes MAX to decide and buy back. Have the buy back area easy to get to. Offer a slightly discounted entry fee if they agree to take the buy back in advance. Run multiple boards so that start times are staggered (probably already do this).

Action Tables: Increase the tournament length by one day so that you can dedicate a certain percentage of tables to action all the time.

Prestige: Free Airfare, entry, and room and board for John Barton to be there would definitely make this tournament a success! (as long as we are suggesting).........
 
Notifications: Text Messages - can be sent from any internet connected computer. Can also send out BULK messages to all players - such as - round two boards are up.

Great Idea! easy and doesnt cost anything.
 
real bartram said:
its close but the bartram room wins.

i agree $$ comes and goes , but the Bartrum Room" is strong!!!! no BS I really like it and will mention it to Greg(I dont have much juice but he will hear about it-I give you my word).


not to pee on the parade, but that casino isnt doing to good otherwise, I hope its in Biz this time next year.
 
The cell phone idea sounds good but I heard that later on in the week that people were having trouble with their phones and reception. If that is true, that could cause even more difficulties of a player claiming he never received a text/phone call and was forfeited.

I would have a website that listed the matches and the times and table assignments. And then, since the DCC has to be spread out in several different rooms at the casino, have different stations with laptops where people could ask an attendent to look up on the website what time they play next. You could have one at the main desk, someone out in the main lobby area outside the main room, someone in the action room, someone in the bigger room upstairs. People could also sit in their room with their laptop or their cell phone (which many have internet connection now) and check to see the time of their next match.

The big spinning pool table in the center needs to go. That is where the vendors need to be setup.

More tables need to be setup either in the long corridor between the hotel and the convention area. Or I noticed that the buffet never gets real busy but has a huge area, so maybe the casino, after seeing the # of people that were at the derby, could section off part of that for tables used for action and practice.

One pocket matches, after two hours, would be put on a 15 second shot clock.

No offense but if the guy that wrote the program to schedule the matches and also had a backup plan and both failed - I would not use him again. He had a year to design, plan and test his system.

The bank ring game would not be played on the accu-stats table so it would end fairly for all players. :thumbup:

All my ideas are copywrited and compensation would be expected if used.
 
jay helfert said:
I had a nice chat with Greg earlier today about the recent DCC and what can be done to make it better next year. He still must negotiate with the Horseshoe to work out the planning for next year's event. It's not a done deal by any means, but at least now they know it will bring a lot of people to the hotel/casino. Considering the storm, it was a pleasant surprise to see so many people in house. Half their staff didn't show up for work, but the pool players found a way to get there.

A few things he mentioned were that he would like to negotiate for a little better room rate. Maybe $99 a night all ten days. As far as the match scheduling goes, Greg informed me that the fellow who created the new program for the computer had a back up plan that also failed. Greg and he are working on a new way of structuring the event to make the scheduling easier. He realizes there is a problem there. One of the things we talked about was giving players a limited amount of time for their buy-backs after a match ended. Also allowing a player to make his buy-back in advance, when he sends in his entry.

Another idea Greg had was to offer an enclosed security area where players could leave their cues, so they didn't have to tote them everywhere they go. Another big plus was a plan to leave not only your cue, but your cell phone number as well. You would be called when your match was coming up, with say a half hour advance notice. Someone would call to let you know your match was next up and what table you would be on. That would be a wonderful addition and make it easier for players to move around on the property, and not have to worry about staying close to the tournament area at all times.

One of the big problems with running this event on time, happens during the One Pocket portion of the tourney. Some matches are taking over three hours (even four hours) and causing major problems in making a draw for the next round. How to shorten these matches was something we talked about at length. I suggested he institute a rule that has proved beneficial in the one day One Pocket events we hold out here. I didn't like this rule at first, but now see how workable it is, and how much time it saves.

Here is the rule in capsule form. I'd like to hear some feedback on this. We call it the Four Ball rule. Once there are four balls within the head string the ball closest to the end rail gets re-spotted. That way there is never a game where all the balls end up down table. It speeds up the game and insures there are no unreasonably long games. Like I said I didn't like it at first. But after playing this way a few times, I realize that it only changes the strategy somewhat. The best player will still win.

Every time a fourth ball gets sent up table, one ball is going to be re-spotted. That is basically how it works, and it does work. Using such a rule, a game lasting longer than half an hour would be a rarity. And trust me when I tell you, the best One Pocket players will still dominate. If anything it adds an element of skill and strategy that favors better players. When there are three balls up table you must play a shot with that in mind.

Okay, let me know what you think.

The interesting thing about the problems is they are due entirely to the success and popularity of the event. In many ways, these are good problems to have! Kudos and thanks to Greg for his current and future success!


My solution for the one pocket is a three hour shot clock. Any matches taking longer than three hours the players will be shot. After that, each body can be attached to a trebuchet and flung into the Ohio river from the hotel roof. :D

Seriously though, I really hope the one pocket rule change you are proposing is seriously considered. The only other alternatives are to cap the entrants and raise the entry fee. Yes, some purists will scream about changing the rules, but in my opinion, nightmarishly long matches are restricting the popularity of the game. The game was clearly not designed with an event the size of DCC in mind.

Are the between round buybacks really that neccessary? Approximately 60% of the field uses them and almost all of them are at or near professional level players. (based on 2008 results). Many people who have little or no chance of going deep in the tournaments enter because it is less expensive than buying a spectator pass for the time they are there. Either folks are committed to going as deep in the tournament as they can or they're not. I'm not sure if preserving the small middle ground is worth the hassle.

I saw some folks using the casino coat check for their cues. Maybe this wasn't safe enough? I don't know.

I believe the problem with the scheduling is that the current system relies too much on one computer. The only way to avoid this is to commit to scheduling the rounds before the previous one is over and to start at a specific time and schedule the matches a certain distance of time apart.

Forcasting the round requirements is stunningly simple. If you look at history, 28% of the players use buy ins each round. That only varies maybe +/- 3% in the early rounds.

If you get the math correct in advance, it is conceivable that when a player has won or has a buy in, they could randomly draw their next start time immediately after their match out of tickets in a barrel. The tournament manager could initial the ticket and enter the match time on a board. At some point, another player will eventually draw the other slot and the table will be filled. Any unfilled slots (5%) will get matched to the next closest unfilled time, but not earlier. Those random unfilled slots will help cushion the load a bit.

I will be more to elaborate on this if anyone is remotely interested. :D

Thanks Jay for posting the questions and thanks again Greg for a great event that will only get better!
 
I am absolutely stunned that no one chimed in to say what a great idea it is to pay all of JB's expenses to be at this event. :-)

Great idea on the website/kiosk idea. I gotta say that the boraodcasting the tournament into the rooms was the most kick ass awesomest thing ever.

I remember going to sleep at around 4amish, waking up at six to see someone paying off, going back to sleep and waking up a couple hours later to see someone making the set ball and collecting the cash. If I remember right it was Rachel Abbink vs. John Mataya - coolest thing ever to wake up to live pool every couple hours.

Ok not helpful - sorry!
 
jay helfert said:
I had a nice chat with Greg earlier today about the recent DCC and what can be done to make it better next year. He still must negotiate with the Horseshoe to work out the planning for next year's event. It's not a done deal by any means, but at least now they know it will bring a lot of people to the hotel/casino. Considering the storm, it was a pleasant surprise to see so many people in house. Half their staff didn't show up for work, but the pool players found a way to get there.

A few things he mentioned were that he would like to negotiate for a little better room rate. Maybe $99 a night all ten days. As far as the match scheduling goes, Greg informed me that the fellow who created the new program for the computer had a back up plan that also failed. Greg and he are working on a new way of structuring the event to make the scheduling easier. He realizes there is a problem there. One of the things we talked about was giving players a limited amount of time for their buy-backs after a match ended. Also allowing a player to make his buy-back in advance, when he sends in his entry.

Another idea Greg had was to offer an enclosed security area where players could leave their cues, so they didn't have to tote them everywhere they go. Another big plus was a plan to leave not only your cue, but your cell phone number as well. You would be called when your match was coming up, with say a half hour advance notice. Someone would call to let you know your match was next up and what table you would be on. That would be a wonderful addition and make it easier for players to move around on the property, and not have to worry about staying close to the tournament area at all times.

One of the big problems with running this event on time, happens during the One Pocket portion of the tourney. Some matches are taking over three hours (even four hours) and causing major problems in making a draw for the next round. How to shorten these matches was something we talked about at length. I suggested he institute a rule that has proved beneficial in the one day One Pocket events we hold out here. I didn't like this rule at first, but now see how workable it is, and how much time it saves.

Here is the rule in capsule form. I'd like to hear some feedback on this. We call it the Four Ball rule. Once there are four balls within the head string the ball closest to the end rail gets re-spotted. That way there is never a game where all the balls end up down table. It speeds up the game and insures there are no unreasonably long games. Like I said I didn't like it at first. But after playing this way a few times, I realize that it only changes the strategy somewhat. The best player will still win.

Every time a fourth ball gets sent up table, one ball is going to be re-spotted. That is basically how it works, and it does work. Using such a rule, a game lasting longer than half an hour would be a rarity. And trust me when I tell you, the best One Pocket players will still dominate. If anything it adds an element of skill and strategy that favors better players. When there are three balls up table you must play a shot with that in mind.

Okay, let me know what you think.


I think, if the rule is enforced *very selectively,* it's OK. IOW, only for the problem matches.

The problem matches are when you get two guys on the same table that think the whole idea of 1pocket is to bunt all the balls upstairs. I was on deck for a table that had one of these matches going on. Both these guys needed to have their union card pulled, because all they did was bunt the balls up table and when they took a shot, never hit it hard enough to make it to their pocket. I could have killed either or both of them.

Which brings me to another point: I've always thought a tournament of this size, with tables/matches going on two floors and various rooms, should have a roving official that is in constant contact with the tournament desk. That person could pick up on things like: the problem matches; speed up things up by cutting off the long warm ups; remind players that if they want to buy back in, to do so immediately; notify the desk that there is an available table as soon as a match is over; or that someone hasn't shown up for a match.

And as long as us girls are talking about things like this, here's another one: every DCC there seems to be a bunch of guys that show up with their cues, just to play on the tables for free. I can't say this with 100% certainty, because I don't go up to them and ask, but starting about Tuesday night, there are always bangers on the tables, that I seriously doubt are in any event. And the second the tables are put on coin-op, these guys disappear. If true, what that means is that guys that are in the tournament have an even tougher time getting a table to practice or match up on.

Lastly (and I know I'm crazy for even suggesting this), but really, all these are just band-aids. The root cause for all the scheduling woes is the table to player ratio. IMO, they should figure out how many players to let in based upon how many tables they have for tournament play. If you only have 40-50 tables and you let 400+ players in the door, you're gonna crash and burn. Real slow.

Lou Figueroa
 
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