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Define "going over the line" in a pool forum or any forum for that matter
- Thread starter classiccues
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What do you hope to accomplish with an email from more than two years ago? It's really simple, Jack made a public insinuation on this forum that I didn't have a business license. So I went off the deep end and did some research into how his "business" is set up.
And yes, I did ask him to consider apologizing and making all the animosity go away. I have extended the olive branch to Jack on many occasions. I am still hurt deeply by his false accusation of importing copies of his cases. That was a grievous attempt to cost me business.
And let's be really clear here, if my business suffers then it affects 15 families along with my own. So it's not really nice of you or anyone to try and do anything that you think will cause me to lose sales.
Yes, I retaliated when Jack did that to me and I shouldn't have sent the zoning board or whomever a letter. But I did and it's done and if Jack was going to say something then he should have said it before. That was then this is now.
As you said, his activity is a hobby. Mine is a business. I lashed out to protect what I have built and I also made no secret of it.
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This is you admitting to goading me. You said it specifically to needle me. But anyway, as I said if you make a statement that is not true then I will simply post the correct information.
It has happened plenty of times. And I didn't say that Justis and Long Chan are current partners. I said were partners. And technically I think that Jack still gets his interiors from them. Not sure. The point was that you never comment on Jack's use of Chinese labor in his cases.
Joe, there is a big difference between showing your distaste for China and making it personal. When you say that I use slave labor and six year olds then it's personal. When you make blanket statements about China that are not true, statements that are bigoted and racist then someone who knows the truth should correct you. That someone happens to be me often and often others. But you keep on with the personal insults and outright slander even when people who live here tell you that life on the ground is not what you are claiming it is.
I don't know. Does not matter because it's ancient history at this point. Jack did what he did and I did what I did in response. We can go all the back to the thread where Jack made a false accusation to see where it started. He tried to mess with my business and I tried to mess with his, it's a wash. I am not proud of it but it's done.
Nope not confusing him at all. I don't have the original link but the guy went off on me on AZB saying we compete unfairly and use poisons in our materials. He did this at a time when he knew I could not respond.
No, as I said I gave as good as I got. Of course I am the catalyst. If I didn't go on tilt when you get personal then it wouldn't escalate. What it never is though Joe is me attacking first. But I admit when attacked I have been like a rabid dog going harder in retaliation. Especially if the attacks were lies.
Ignoring me is not the issue. You post comments that are aimed right at me and then wonder when I respond. It's very easy for us to get along. Don't go out of your way to post comments intended ONLY to upset me. When you don't do that then we don't have anything to talk about.
And in fact there have been many threads where you and I have had discussions on the topic without arguing because you didn't choose to make some kind of personal insult.
I am not putting you on ignore. If you make comments that concern my business then I will address them politely and civilly with facts. I hope that you have gotten it all off your chest now and we can move on to more productive things.
Starting a thread with the sole intention of trolling another forum member is over the line.
Yes, I am speaking to you who started this thread.
Having just read a number of recent posts by you - username "classiccues" it is obvious that your intention with this particular thread is to troll and inflame jbcases.
There is a sticky entitled "Forum Rules" in which it is stated specifically -
By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
To be included, there will be no ad hominem attacks. No name calling nor insults. Disagreeing with someone is fine, but calling them an idiot because of their opinion is not.
All posts will be kept civil.
In a thread over the weekend, I saw this rule violated numerous times as you specifically directed remarks that were "hateful" and engaged in "ad hominem attacks" against the same forum member you are attempting to troll with this thread.
Here are some examples -
1 - "You're a spiteful crybaby"
2 - "you clueless nutjob"
3 - "Go make another few alias screen names, it will make you feel better."
4 - "if I said who set up an entire shp and taught them to make Chinese knockoffs, who would I be talking about? YOU. "
5 - "You're a small, small man"
6 - The reason you cannot do that with a JB is that it could be mistaken for a Fellini, a Thomas, a Centennial, a JEF Case (Flowers) or one of many other designs that you have lifted. - A direct accusation of theft of intellectual property
7 - "you're a small petty man"
8 - "Knowing your psychotic tendencies"
9 - "You are the biggest liar in the pool world"
10 - "your'e a whiney 6 year old girl"
11- "Who the F**k are you to determine that market value? This ain't China where the labor is exploited."
12 - "As far as getting rid of you, what fun would that be."
13 - "No lying involved, unless its you"
14 - "man up and shut up"
All this (and more) vitriol from a single thread. I can only image what might lie in other threads
You should be warned and any subsequent posts made in this thread by you that address any specific forum member should be removed. If previous warnings of this type of behavior have been issued, then you should be banned.
This is the most popular forum on the web for information regarding billiards, yet instead of sharing important knowledge about the game, equipment, training, tournaments, results, or any other pertinent information, you choose to engage in a spat with another forum member, inciting and pushing buttons.
I find your actions distasteful and petty.
Yes, I am speaking to you who started this thread.
Having just read a number of recent posts by you - username "classiccues" it is obvious that your intention with this particular thread is to troll and inflame jbcases.
There is a sticky entitled "Forum Rules" in which it is stated specifically -
By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
To be included, there will be no ad hominem attacks. No name calling nor insults. Disagreeing with someone is fine, but calling them an idiot because of their opinion is not.
All posts will be kept civil.
In a thread over the weekend, I saw this rule violated numerous times as you specifically directed remarks that were "hateful" and engaged in "ad hominem attacks" against the same forum member you are attempting to troll with this thread.
Here are some examples -
1 - "You're a spiteful crybaby"
2 - "you clueless nutjob"
3 - "Go make another few alias screen names, it will make you feel better."
4 - "if I said who set up an entire shp and taught them to make Chinese knockoffs, who would I be talking about? YOU. "
5 - "You're a small, small man"
6 - The reason you cannot do that with a JB is that it could be mistaken for a Fellini, a Thomas, a Centennial, a JEF Case (Flowers) or one of many other designs that you have lifted. - A direct accusation of theft of intellectual property
7 - "you're a small petty man"
8 - "Knowing your psychotic tendencies"
9 - "You are the biggest liar in the pool world"
10 - "your'e a whiney 6 year old girl"
11- "Who the F**k are you to determine that market value? This ain't China where the labor is exploited."
12 - "As far as getting rid of you, what fun would that be."
13 - "No lying involved, unless its you"
14 - "man up and shut up"
All this (and more) vitriol from a single thread. I can only image what might lie in other threads
You should be warned and any subsequent posts made in this thread by you that address any specific forum member should be removed. If previous warnings of this type of behavior have been issued, then you should be banned.
This is the most popular forum on the web for information regarding billiards, yet instead of sharing important knowledge about the game, equipment, training, tournaments, results, or any other pertinent information, you choose to engage in a spat with another forum member, inciting and pushing buttons.
I find your actions distasteful and petty.
Ohoh
Mention anything about aiming systems.
Should be punishable by immediate castration.
Unless you are are a girl. Girls get a pass.
Mention anything about aiming systems.
Should be punishable by immediate castration.
Unless you are are a girl. Girls get a pass.
You are entitled to your opinions. This was not a trolling thread, because there is no such animal as trolling. One can choose to walk away or not. The sole purpose of this thread was the request of what is over the line in a forum environment. Which was driven by the martyr speech of another locked thread. It is why I kept this one very clean. I was warned on the other thread and took it to heart.
JV
JV
I do my best to conduct myself on a public forum exactly how I would if faced with the person in real life. If I fail to do that, I consider myself to have "gone over the line". I can only control what I do, not what others do. If everybody did that, there would be no problems here.
What I do find appalling here is the kangaroo court mentality that seems to run rampant on AZ. I almost stopped posting here for good, actually did stop for a while. This is most evident when someone claims to have gotten stiffed on a bet, or screwed in a business deal (happens all too often in the pool world, apparently) and sees fit to "warn" other members, all of whom seem altogether too happy to form a lynch mob.
Talk of "let's make a road trip" and the violence that that suggests is enough to make me very hesitant do business with folks on this forum. Which is kinda sad since I am in the process of learning how to make cues, and I was looking forward to developing a customer base here. Maybe I'll keep them all to myself.
What I do find appalling here is the kangaroo court mentality that seems to run rampant on AZ. I almost stopped posting here for good, actually did stop for a while. This is most evident when someone claims to have gotten stiffed on a bet, or screwed in a business deal (happens all too often in the pool world, apparently) and sees fit to "warn" other members, all of whom seem altogether too happy to form a lynch mob.
Talk of "let's make a road trip" and the violence that that suggests is enough to make me very hesitant do business with folks on this forum. Which is kinda sad since I am in the process of learning how to make cues, and I was looking forward to developing a customer base here. Maybe I'll keep them all to myself.
I notice that your image refers to a 'kitchen'....for most of my life, it was
referred to as 'behind the line'.
Who the hell came up with this 'kitchen' terminology?
'course it creates some misunderstandings............
..your wife calls "Where are you?'
me..."I'm in the kitchen."
wife...So am I...I don't see you."
me...."I'm playing on a big table."
No where did I make that admission. What I said was the truth about the cases.
Because its not relevent to the discussions. Do we discuss the labor used to unpack your shipping boxes at port?
90% of all the arguements you have lead up to child labor. Do not generalize me into that category. Maybe because I have said it so much that the Chinese are KNOWN for it, or maybe I said it in our e-mail volleys, I don't remember actually saying you did it, but I could have. Blanket statements that are based in fact, and proven to be fact are factual. You need to quell them a little because even you find them distasteful. You need to realize that, and that does not make them bigoted or racist.
It just goes to the evidence where you will go when your feelings are hurt. I might call you a name, you might call me a name and thats all good. At the end of the day, I don't say let me see if I can get John shut down. There is a difference between getting slighted and what you did.
We can both same the same thing. BUT if someone disagrees with you, it doesn't make it an attack.
Or you didn't choose to take it as a personal insult. People here can sat China sucks, China uses Child labor, China serves cats and dogs, but that doesn't mean its you doing it. Learn the difference.
JV
I notice that your image refers to a 'kitchen'....for most of my life, it was
referred to as 'behind the line'.
Who the hell came up with this 'kitchen' terminology?
'course it creates some misunderstandings............
..your wife calls "Where are you?'
me..."I'm in the kitchen."
wife...So am I...I don't see you."
me...."I'm playing on a big table."
no idea who came up w/ that LMAO......
TheThaiger
Banned
If we are not allowed to cross the line occasionally, how do we know where the line is?
Can't we have a 'level two' on this site? One that is unmoderated and allows as much flaming as possible? They are great fun and serve a useful purpose, too - a little bloodletting to relieve the tension is good all round.
This site is too claustrophobic. No one can say what they really feel, so pettiness permeates and grudges fester. Get it all out in the open and move on.
Can't we have a 'level two' on this site? One that is unmoderated and allows as much flaming as possible? They are great fun and serve a useful purpose, too - a little bloodletting to relieve the tension is good all round.
This site is too claustrophobic. No one can say what they really feel, so pettiness permeates and grudges fester. Get it all out in the open and move on.
Maybe just have 1 thread in the NPR section just for that. Put in an AZ disclosure that they are not held responsible for posts/repercussions and to post/respond at your own risk...basically to cover themselves from a legal viewpoint.
I dont like JB one single bit. He knows it, I know it, hell the whole world knows it. I choose to ignore him and not even read his posts because i personally believe that he has a mental health issue that prevents him from considering it possible that he could ever be wrong. Im not getting into another war of words, been there done that, and i still have the pm that he sent me a long time ago promising to fight me if we ever meet in person. Regardless of my personal opinion of John, i gotta laugh at your post. You realize how silly you look by going back and searching all of classicues posts for sentences and tid bits pertaining to John? Kinda stalker-ish to me. You cant call classiccues out for trolling when you do the same thing. I dont dislike you or have a problem with you, but you gotta admit that its a bit overboard to go back and do all that research, just to post it here. Cmon man, grab a beer and let it go.
Joe
John,
Recently you and I have started to make strides to resolve our differences but I have to call BS on these statements.
It was through your actions that started the problems between us because until just before you left me my first negative rep, I have never even heard of you. If you recall it was because of the counterfeit thread started by Matt at Sterling. For those of you who may not be familiar here is what happened....
Matt Carter of Sterling gaming started a thread accusing a long standing member of the forum with several THOUSAND posts and a 100% PERFECT iTrader of selling counterfeit J. Flowers cases. I posted in the thread asking if Matt had contacted the member before accusing him in the open forum which I thought wasn't asking too much. Almost immediately after posting that message I started receiving PM's from members with a ZERO post count asking me to contact John Barton and he will "explain" everything to me. I subsequently posted again in the thread asking who John was and why I was receiving these PM's only to find out later that it was John who had made up bogus new user accounts because he was banned and couldn't be "himself".
Very soon after, John's user privileges were reinstated and I received a negative rep from him blasting me for posting in the counterfeit thread. It is also worth mentioning that when I posted in the thread, Matt hadn't provided ANY proof that the case that was being accused as being counterfeit actually was. Once Matt provided proof that the case was indeed counterfeit I stopped posting in the thread and actually went back and removed alll my posts where I was questioning the validity of Matt's claims.
From that point on John, you started stalking me relentlessly, calling me a liar everytime I posted anything and even started a blog to tell the world that I was a liar. You tried everything to defame me and often without provocation. Remember when I did the review of the Sterling case? I said some nice things about it but in the end it had damaged a Bender cue when I treid to use it as a 2x3 which was how it was intended. Up until that point it had worked very well (as a 2x2) but I felt the overall size of the case prevented it from really working as a 2x3. I even offered proof with photos of the joint protectors touching each other but that wasn't good enough for you. You wanted me to take additional photos from a different angle as if it were going to make a difference. Then, you made a video to try and discredit me. The only problem was, you didn't use the same model case that had damaged the Bender. Instead, you used one of your custom models which I have since learned have much thicker padding. Of course you wouldn't use the same model case because that wouldn't suit your needs to try and make me look bad.
And now after all that, I see all this crap about you wanting an apology from other people because you think they wronged you in some way! ROFLMFAO!!!! :rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
While I will admit you have been marginally better since you have been reinstated (which is why we were making strides to get along), I still have yet to receive an apology from you for all that you have done to me. And then I read your statement that you "didn't start these things" and you "didn't get personal" until people started with you?
SERIOUSLY???
Matt,
You may want to troll around a little and see what your boy John has been up to on this forum. Seriously, some of the things he has said and done to defame others is appalling. While Joe and I are not completely innocent when it comes to engaging John, I feel most of our actions are reactionary.
You may want to consider your own house before you start questioning other's.
It seemed very relevant to me since I had just read the thread from which I pulled all of those quotes from, before reading this thread.
I thought this topic started innocently enough, with a fairly legitimate (but very non-pool related) question regarding acceptable behavior in online forums, however it quickly became obvious that it was a ploy to further antagonize John Barton.
As someone with a vested interest in seeing the game prosper, it pains me that threads like this, which generate no real discussion about pool and have no value as far as contributing to the forum in a positive manner, are allowed to propagate on the most popular billiards forum in the world.
I personally think it devalues the forum when threads like this, along with personal attacks, flame wars, and otherwise non-productive threads are not properly moderated
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