Definition of "Billiard Shot" vs "Carom Shot"

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Chris Santana
Silver Member
According to David Alciatore (Dr. Dave)'s billiard terms, here is his distinction:

Billiard: a shot where the cue ball is kissed or caromed off an object ball (e.g., to pocket another object ball).

Carom: a shot where the cue ball is deflected off one object ball and into another to pocket the second ball.

I cited his definitions because I think his are the best in general - clear and easily understood.

I recently was trying to make this distinction to a local player, and I actually confused myself in trying to explain the difference (I ended up describing a combination shot). Dr. Dave's definitions I think are close, but the definition of carom should be something like this:

a shot where an object ball is deflected off one or more other ball(s) and then pocketed.

Is that how everyone else defines that word? A billiard would be like shooting the cue ball off the 1 into the 9 - the last contact being the cue ball into the 9 and the 9 falling. Whereas a carom would be like the 1 ball being shot off of the 2 ball, the last contact being the 1 into the 2, and the 1 falling.

Thoughts?
 
My understanding is: A carom is defined as two balls that are touching each other and one of the two balls is able to be pocketed after contact by the cue ball. The most common carom is when the center of the two balls bisects a pocket, allowing one of the balls (depending on the posittion of the cue ball) to be struck and pocketed.

A billiard is when the cue ball contacts more than one ball on a single stroke. The two balls are usually not touching each other. A common example is one ball sitting in front of a side pocket and another ball sitting in front of a corner pocket, with both balls being on the same side of the table. If the cue ball is positioned correctly, it's easy to pocket the ball sitting in front of the side pocket and, with follow, sending the cue ball down the side rail to pocket the ball sitting in front of the corner pocket.

Shoot Safe!

John
 
Carom: Object ball hits another ball , object ball goes in.
If the other ball goes in, that's a combo.

Billiard: Cue ball hits the object ball then hits another ball that goes in.

I think.
 
^kuya joey, i think it's the other way around. carom is when CB hits OB, then CB hits another ball and then pockets this other ball. a billiard shot is when you make the OB hit another ball to shot the OB.
 
Ah, the age old question...

I tried to figure this out a while back because I had two dogs named Kisses and Caroms, and I always think about them when shooting certain shots.

Then I started playing Carom Billiards and gave up on a concrete definition. :)

-Blake
 
SkyscraperChris said:
According to David Alciatore (Dr. Dave)'s billiard terms, here is his distinction:

Billiard: a shot where the cue ball is kissed or caromed off an object ball (e.g., to pocket another object ball).

Carom: a shot where the cue ball is deflected off one object ball and into another to pocket the second ball.

I cited his definitions because I think his are the best in general - clear and easily understood.

I recently was trying to make this distinction to a local player, and I actually confused myself in trying to explain the difference (I ended up describing a combination shot). Dr. Dave's definitions I think are close, but the definition of carom should be something like this:

a shot where an object ball is deflected off one or more other ball(s) and then pocketed.

Is that how everyone else defines that word? A billiard would be like shooting the cue ball off the 1 into the 9 - the last contact being the cue ball into the 9 and the 9 falling. Whereas a carom would be like the 1 ball being shot off of the 2 ball, the last contact being the 1 into the 2, and the 1 falling.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

With all due respect to Dr. Dave 'carom' and 'billiard' shot are the same thing.

Glancing an OB off another OB is a "KISS" shot. If the balls are touching it is
often described as a 'dead' kiss.

Dale(don't make me get started on ' dead bank')
 
pdcue said:
With all due respect to Dr. Dave 'carom' and 'billiard' shot are the same thing.

Glancing an OB off another OB is a "KISS" shot. If the balls are touching it is
often described as a 'dead' kiss.

Dale(don't make me get started on ' dead bank')
Click to expand...

This is correct. That's why in 3 cushion the use of the term "billiard" and "carom" are interchangeable. However, you cannot score a point in 3 cushion by shooting one of the object balls 3 rails and kissing it off the other. To score a point the cueball has to complete the billiard or carom.
 
pdcue said:
With all due respect to Dr. Dave 'carom' and 'billiard' shot are the same thing.

Glancing an OB off another OB is a "KISS" shot. If the balls are touching it is
often described as a 'dead' kiss.

Dale(don't make me get started on ' dead bank')
Click to expand...

I think the "kiss" shot is just an informal way of saying it, not a separate thing.

I think a billiard would be when the cue ball hits an object ball then hits a second pocketing it. As in 3 C billiards. You hit one ball then the cueball goes around and hits the second same as a "billiard" shot.

Carom would be hitting the object ball off another object ball to pocket it. The kiss shot would be an informal way of saying carom.
 
It's always been my understanding that:

Carom (Kiss)- Cue Ball glances off one object ball and pockets another object ball.
Billiard - Combination Shot.
Kick - Cue Ball hits rail/cushion first into an object ball.
Bank - Cue Ball hits object ball into rail/cushion.

I watched a stream with Nick Varner doing commentary and a shot came up where the only shots were to play safe or play "the billiard." In which case he was speaking of play the object ball into another object ball. I guess it could all be interpreted differently.
 
pdcue said:
With all due respect to Dr. Dave 'carom' and 'billiard' shot are the same thing.

Glancing an OB off another OB is a "KISS" shot. If the balls are touching it is
often described as a 'dead' kiss.

Dale(don't make me get started on ' dead bank')
Click to expand...

At first I was going to argue with this but then I looked into it and references I found on the Internet agree with you.

This reference actually states that a kiss shot is the same as a carom. And that a billiard is actually:

BILLIARD. (Carom games) A count or score; a successful shot.
Click to expand...

In other words, a billiard is a successful carom and not a shot, per se.
 
SkyscraperChris said:
Billiard: a shot where the cue ball is kissed or caromed off an object ball (e.g., to pocket another object ball).

Carom: a shot where the cue ball is deflected off one object ball and into another to pocket the second ball.
Click to expand...
Those definitions don't make any sense at all. They're the same thing.

Dr. Dave's definitions I think are close, but the definition of carom should be something like this:

a shot where an object ball is deflected off one or more other ball(s) and then pocketed.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%. I think Dr. Dave confused himself with those definitions above and ended up giving the same definition twice. Yours is correct.
 
The billiard is when you play the 1 in the corner off of the 2 ball.

The combo is when you pocket the 2 ball in the corner by striking it with the 1 ball.

The carom is when you pocket the 2 ball by playing the cue ball off of the 1.

Thread closed. ;D
 
pdcue said:
With all due respect to Dr. Dave 'carom' and 'billiard' shot are the same thing.

Glancing an OB off another OB is a "KISS" shot. If the balls are touching it is
often described as a 'dead' kiss.

Dale(don't make me get started on ' dead bank')
Click to expand...

That's the way I've always understood it:wink:
 
I reference,
Billiards as it should be played by Willie Hoppe, copyright 1941.
Glossary of Billiard Terms (Explanation of Technical Terms Employed in the Game of Billiards)

Carom---
Causing the cue ball to strike both object balls on the same stroke or hitting an object ball and then going to a point on a cushion.

Billiard---
Generally means a "Carom" or point scored.

For me the terms apply to both games, billiards and pocket billiards.

Dale
 
SkyscraperChris said:
According to David Alciatore (Dr. Dave)'s billiard terms, here is his distinction:

Billiard: a shot where the cue ball is kissed or caromed off an object ball (e.g., to pocket another object ball).

Carom: a shot where the cue ball is deflected off one object ball and into another to pocket the second ball.

I cited his definitions because I think his are the best in general - clear and easily understood.

I recently was trying to make this distinction to a local player, and I actually confused myself in trying to explain the difference (I ended up describing a combination shot). Dr. Dave's definitions I think are close, but the definition of carom should be something like this:

a shot where an object ball is deflected off one or more other ball(s) and then pocketed.

Is that how everyone else defines that word? A billiard would be like shooting the cue ball off the 1 into the 9 - the last contact being the cue ball into the 9 and the 9 falling. Whereas a carom would be like the 1 ball being shot off of the 2 ball, the last contact being the 1 into the 2, and the 1 falling.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Here are the latest definitions as they appear in my online glossary, which is an expanded and updated version of what was originally published in my book:

billiard shot (AKA “billiard”): a shot where the cue ball is kissed or caromed off an object ball (e.g., to pocket another object ball).

carom shot (AKA "billiard" or "CB kiss shot"): a shot where the cue ball is deflected off one object ball and into another to pocket the second ball.

combination shot: a shot where the cue ball hits an object ball into another to pocket the second ball.

kiss shot (or “OB kiss shot”): a shot where an object ball is deflected off another and then into a pocket.

I think these definitions represent the most standard way the terms are currently used in pocket billiards.

Regards,
Dave
 
Last edited:
dr_dave said:
Here are the latest definitions as they appear in my online glossary, which is an expanded and updated version of what was originally published in my book:

billiard shot (AKA “billiard”): a shot where the cue ball is kissed or caromed off an object ball (e.g., to pocket another object ball).

carom shot (AKA "billiard" or "CB kiss shot"): a shot where the cue ball is deflected off one object ball and into another to pocket the second ball.

combination shot: a shot where the cue ball hits an object ball into another to pocket the second ball.

kiss shot (or “OB kiss shot”): a shot where an object ball is deflected off another and then into a pocket.

I think these definitions represent the most standard way the terms are currently used in pocket billiards.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Thank you for the clarification.

Dale
 
dr_dave said:
Here are the latest definitions as they appear in my online glossary, which is an expanded and updated version of what was originally published in my book:

billiard shot (AKA “billiard”): a shot where the cue ball is kissed or caromed off an object ball (e.g., to pocket another object ball).

carom shot (AKA "billiard" or "CB kiss shot"): a shot where the cue ball is deflected off one object ball and into another to pocket the second ball.

combination shot: a shot where the cue ball hits an object ball into another to pocket the second ball.

kiss shot (or “OB kiss shot”): a shot where an object ball is deflected off another and then into a pocket.

I think these definitions represent the most standard way the terms are currently used in pocket billiards.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Wait a second. I still don't get the difference between carom and billiard. They both involve 1) hitting the cue ball into an object ball, and then 2) the cue ball comes of the first object ball and then hits a second object ball to pocket it.
 
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