DELETED POST?!?! Mike Janis & Viking Cue tour????

[watchez]

How does an entire thread get deleted? 6 pages of discussion on why you should or should not consider holding a Viking Cue Tour Tournament & now it is gone!!! What does this say for what was brought up in discussion with Mike Janis? But is this 1984? Big Brother? I didn't realize there was such monitoring being done on this board. I thought it was an intelligent discussion with valid questions to someone that brought up wanting room owners to hold/sponsor his tournaments. At least Mark Griffin of the BCA and Greg of DCC stood up and answered all questions.

Fortunately, I saved my last post so here it is again.....

Please enlighten me to the other hidden costs to you.

Mj

Mike, I believe Teacherman is speaking of costs that you are not telling us about. I talked to you on the phone several years ago concerning your tournament & I might have my facts a little off but don't you charge $1500 to run the tournament plus you get 20% of the calcutta. Of course it isn't that the room owner puts up $1000 added and you bring the tournament. You have to be making money yourself. Don't be ashamed of making money but please tell us how this is done. If you can ask Teacherman his liquor costs I feel I can publicly ask you this.
I bartend for Teacherman on Saturday nights and his numbers stated for a normal weekend business are completely accurate. But if all you want is $1000 added PERIOD and guarantee $500 over the normal profit of a weekend, I will help you in your crusade to convert Teacherman. And if you can complete a 64 man double elimination tournament in 19 hours (11AM-8:30Pm Saturday & Sunday) I will be simply amazed just on that alone. Teacherman has 18 bar tables and they are not coin slot tables so this tournament would move along even faster than normal. Beer is $2.50, burgers are $3.00...reasonable prices the average person can afford. Parking lot is huge and Teacherman is the only major business in this plaza. No problems there. Located 4 miles in either direction of US Highway 40/64 or US Highway 70, and 1 mile from Highway 64 which is a direct link to the interblet that goes completely around the city of St. Louis. Hotels within 3 miles of the room.
So Mike, as a bartender that would also profit from the influx of these great customers and their generous tips....I am on your side. You guarantee $500 over profit for Teacherman over a normal weekend for simply $1000 added. And if your guarantee doesn't come true? $2000 fine? What are you guaranteeing with?

By the way, those of you that don't think Teacherman 'gives back' as others have stated they do as pool owners. He does...just not to the pool player that cares only to himself. Teacherman has held countless charity tournaments for cancer patients, etc. (the last one he held and gave away Table Time and a cue raffles) the feeling of giving ran over to the tournament players as all the prize money was given back to the beneficiary of the tournament. Weekly, he gives table time away to a local disabled home as they bring in 15-20 individuals to play pool. He has also sponsered softball, baseball, and basketball teams. Surely, he doesn't recoup his money there by having his name listed on a standings sheet at some athletic field. He has a beginner league that if you are a coach of one of the teams then he pays your entry fee into any tournament, anywhere you like. Sorry Teacherman if I blew your image.

 

[landshark77]

How does an entire thread get deleted? 6 pages of discussion on why you should or should not consider holding a Viking Cue Tour Tournament & now it is gone!!! What does this say for what was brought up in discussion with Mike Janis? But is this 1984? Big Brother? I didn't realize there was such monitoring being done on this board. I thought it was an intelligent discussion with valid questions to someone that brought up wanting room owners to hold/sponsor his tournaments. At least Mark Griffin of the BCA and Greg of DCC stood up and answered all questions.

Maybe the originator of the thread deleted it??? You do this by deleting your first post in a thread that you start.

 

[Teacherman]

That would be Mr. Janis himself.

What are you afraid of Mr. J.?

I'm still waiting for a check. $500. Pick the date.

I promise I won't tell anyone how much you take out of the prize fund and calcutta. Even if it's so much that there really isn't any added money.

 

[Teacherman]

Zooka

Get back up here and defend your boy. Apparently he's got the runaway bride syndrome.

 

[Teacherman]

Can I ask again?

If 80 players pay $40 to play in a tournament ($3200) and $1000 is added totalling $4200, but you take $1000 for your fee, is there really added money?



I would love to hear the answer.

This is very important to many lurkers. I'm on my high for PM's in one day. They wanted me to ask.

Eydie

What's up? Got any input?

 

[watchez]

Can I ask again?

If 80 players pay $40 to play in a tournament ($3200) and $1000 is added totalling $4200, but you take $1000 for your fee, is there really added money?



I would love to hear the answer.

This is very important to many lurkers. I'm on my high for PM's in one day. They wanted me to ask.

Eydie

What's up? Got any input?

Teacherman...better yet, if you post a topic and then delete--was it ever a post in the first place?

 

[Teacherman]

That's a good one.

If a tree falls in the woods, and no one hears it, did it really fall?

Maybe Danny Harriman should ask Behrman if it was really a tournament? Or, was he dreaming?

 

[MikeJanis]

How does an entire thread get deleted? 6 pages of discussion on why you should or should not consider holding a Viking Cue Tour Tournament & now it is gone!!! What does this say for what was brought up in discussion with Mike Janis? But is this 1984? Big Brother? I didn't realize there was such monitoring being done on this board. I thought it was an intelligent discussion with valid questions to someone that brought up wanting room owners to hold/sponsor his tournaments. At least Mark Griffin of the BCA and Greg of DCC stood up and answered all questions.

Fortunately, I saved my last post so here it is again.....

Mike, I believe Teacherman is speaking of costs that you are not telling us about. I talked to you on the phone several years ago concerning your tournament & I might have my facts a little off but don't you charge $1500 to run the tournament plus you get 20% of the calcutta. Of course it isn't that the room owner puts up $1000 added and you bring the tournament. You have to be making money yourself. Don't be ashamed of making money but please tell us how this is done. If you can ask Teacherman his liquor costs I feel I can publicly ask you this.
I bartend for Teacherman on Saturday nights and his numbers stated for a normal weekend business are completely accurate. But if all you want is $1000 added PERIOD and guarantee $500 over the normal profit of a weekend, I will help you in your crusade to convert Teacherman. And if you can complete a 64 man double elimination tournament in 19 hours (11AM-8:30Pm Saturday & Sunday) I will be simply amazed just on that alone. Teacherman has 18 bar tables and they are not coin slot tables so this tournament would move along even faster than normal. Beer is $2.50, burgers are $3.00...reasonable prices the average person can afford. Parking lot is huge and Teacherman is the only major business in this plaza. No problems there. Located 4 miles in either direction of US Highway 40/64 or US Highway 70, and 1 mile from Highway 64 which is a direct link to the interblet that goes completely around the city of St. Louis. Hotels within 3 miles of the room.
So Mike, as a bartender that would also profit from the influx of these great customers and their generous tips....I am on your side. You guarantee $500 over profit for Teacherman over a normal weekend for simply $1000 added. And if your guarantee doesn't come true? $2000 fine? What are you guaranteeing with?

By the way, those of you that don't think Teacherman 'gives back' as others have stated they do as pool owners. He does...just not to the pool player that cares only to himself. Teacherman has held countless charity tournaments for cancer patients, etc. (the last one he held and gave away Table Time and a cue raffles) the feeling of giving ran over to the tournament players as all the prize money was given back to the beneficiary of the tournament. Weekly, he gives table time away to a local disabled home as they bring in 15-20 individuals to play pool. He has also sponsered softball, baseball, and basketball teams. Surely, he doesn't recoup his money there by having his name listed on a standings sheet at some athletic field. He has a beginner league that if you are a coach of one of the teams then he pays your entry fee into any tournament, anywhere you like. Sorry Teacherman if I blew your image.

1st let me ay that I deleted the post because I was about to go off on Teacherman for the BS he was posting. I know better than to do that in a public forum so I choose to delete my original post. Teacherman stated I lied and was a huckster. As most of you know that's not true. He also was extremely misleading in his posts when he tried to qoute me. He was saying I said things that I didn't say. I tried be democratic with him but it didn't work. He's just an argumentative kind of guy so I decided to end it.

Now regarding your post. To start with your numbers are not correct. As a Td I have never taken 20% of any player auction and the players know that. You probably know why I can't state any percentages. If you don't, I suggest you read historic posts about Calcutta's or Player Auctions.
The tour fees range in price by events but $1,500 is not correct either.

As far as costs go to the room owners everything is up front. We state everything perfectly clear in our format. Teacherman was trying to start or get out of something by bringing that up. He mentioned it only after I told him I would pay him $500 in pure profit for holding an event in his location. He seemed so stuck on tournaments being a bad idea and a risk for pool rooms and I was just trying to show him I would guarantee him a profit of $500. That $500 was not just in more sales but a true profit as compared to his average for a particular weekend over a 3 year period. You state " and guarantee $500 over the normal profit of a weekend " the way you state this is not correct. It's over a particular given weekend. (example: August 2-3 is the tournament date. We look at the numbers from those dates from the previous 3 years during the time periods stated and come up with the average sales profit based on product costs and sales.) It's a simple #, if the agerage sales are $1,000 and product cost is only 35% then the gross frofit would be $650. And like I stated to Teacherman, I will guarantee that he does an additional $500 in profits during the same time frames that I am there for the event. I told him I would guarantee it and I would have. If he didn't do enough sales to make the additional $500 profit then I would pay him the difference wether it was $300, $500 or more. But I simply stated to him that I would guarantee him $500 more in profit over that particular time fram than he had averaged over the last 3 years. Doesn't seem dificult to understand to me.

You said " You guarantee $500 over profit for Teacherman over a normal weekend for simply $1000 added. And if your guarantee doesn't come true? $2000 fine? What are you guaranteeing with?"

It is guaranteed with cash at the time of the event. When we do the #'s it will be self evident if he made the extra $500. If he didn't, I will make up the difference to him. And agin, that's $500 profit over what the average was.
No need for a fine or anything this isn't a bet.

Also, when I asked Teacherman his Liquor costs I also suggested that we move this to either a PM, email or phone conversation. I did not want him to divulge confidential information in a public forum because I would never do that either.

In addition, I didn't even ask Teacherman for $1,000 added. After he propositioned me I told him I would agree to guarantee that he makes $500 in profit as given by the average. Heck, I get to keep all the product so i was gonna add the $1,000 to the event.

Watchez, you seem to be making the same mistakes Teacherman was by not going back and using actual quotes. Please make sure to do this in the future. It save a lot of heartaches for everyone.

Mj

 

[Teacherman]

1st let me ay that I deleted the post because I was about to go off on Teacherman for the BS he was posting. I know better than to do that in a public forum so I choose to delete my original post. Teacherman stated I lied and was a huckster. As most of you know that's not true. He also was extremely misleading in his posts when he tried to qoute me. He was saying I said things that I didn't say. I tried be democratic with him but it didn't work. He's just an argumentative kind of guy so I decided to end it.

Would you please take your thumb out of your mouth and talk like an adult.

 

[MikeJanis]

Can I ask again?

If 80 players pay $40 to play in a tournament ($3200) and $1000 is added totalling $4200, but you take $1000 for your fee, is there really added money?



I would love to hear the answer.

This is very important to many lurkers. I'm on my high for PM's in one day. They wanted me to ask.

Eydie

What's up? Got any input?

Wher do you get you #'s from Teacherman. Since I don't charge $40 entry fees and I would never take $1,000 out of I prize fund I don't know how to answer your question except to say your #rs are wacked.

Mj

 

[Teacherman]

...The tour fees range in price by events but $1,500 is not correct either.

What is the range?

Can I have a three year average over the weekend of July 4th please?

 

[JAM]

I'm not sure who or what deleted the initial thread. I saw it posted earlier this morning, and by this afternoon, there were 50 responses. Quite a busy thread (IMO).

Here's a guy, Mike Janis, who is working 24/7 for the Viking Tour as well as the NUTS.

I cannot imagine how many hours a tournament director of the Viking Tour spends traveling to some of these Viking tournaments, since many of them are spread out in quite a big territory of the country. Advertising, postage, printing, correspondence, and long-distance phone calls are expenses which one would incur with a tour this size.

I am saddened to read some of the most recent posts which seem to target Mike Janis personally relating to the expenses of running the Viking Tour.

If anybody thinks Mike Janis, Mike Zuglan, Tommy Kennedy, Nick Prinsloo and gang are making huge profits from keeping these regional tours alive and well, they are WRONG. The above-named tournament directors have a strong passion for the sport and do it for the love of the game. It is tragic IMO to see any one of their good names mentioned in a negative manner on any pool-related forum.

I have attended many regional tournaments in the past several years, and I am well aware of the money payouts and how the monies are cut up. If there was anything that was not above board or deceptive, I'd pick up on it right away. Relating to the Viking Tour, it's a first-class pool happening each and every time I have ever attended one of their events, and all players are treated equal.

I hope Mike Janis continues to keep the Viking Tour strong, and I believe this regional tour is getting bigger and better each season. Without Mike Janis and people like him, my pool world would not be as bright.

FWIW, I've said it before and I will say it again. THANK YOU, Mike Janis, for making it happen for me and mine. I appreciate your hard work, dedication to the game, and I hope to see you on the tournament trail down the road sometime soon!

JAM

 

[Teacherman]

Wher do you get you #'s from Teacherman. Since I don't charge $40 entry fees and I would never take $1,000 out of I prize fund I don't know how to answer your question except to say your #rs are wacked.

Mj

No one said those were your numbers. I just asked a simple question. In that example was $1000 added to the tournament or not?

Be careful now, you didn't start this post.

 

[MikeJanis]

No one said those were your numbers. I just asked a simple question. In that example was $1000 added to the tournament or not?

Be careful now, you didn't start this post.

Teacherman, please be carefull on your wording. If you posted it as an example in the 1st place I might have been more receptive to your question. But when your put in the words "your fee" it implies to me and many that aren't familiar with the whole program to think that is about one of my events.

The answer to your question is no.

Mj

 

[JAM]

What a crock! Yes, Teacherman asked a simple question, and then it was followed up with innuendoes and flaming statements.

JAM

 

[bruin70]

1st let me ay that I deleted the post because I was about to go off on Teacherman for the BS he was posting..............
Mj

mike,,,,i think you are wasting everyone's time if you delete your posts, especially after all the responses. this is one of the issues azhousepro had to deal with in regards to gremlin. it is also inconsiderate to everyone who has invested time and effort, and is deletorious to the integrity of forums in general.

expect to deal with crap because it comes with the territory. censure(and that IS what you're doing) is not the answer. let the readers decide who is flinging the BS. you don't validate yourself by censuring.

 

[stevelomako]

?????

Mike:
I got back on here and saw the original thread was deleted.

I put alot of thought into what I wrote and I don't post much for as long as I've been on here so I'm a little ticked you deleted it.....got to take the good with the bad.



To Teacherman:
We're on the same page business wise but if you don't know what for and how Mike does the Viking Tour...........call him. He's puts everything out front and you take it or leave it.

If you choose not to give back to the pool playing community thats your call but to start a bunch of crap on things that all you have to do is call him BEFORE you post things is real shitty.

 

[Teacherman]

I'm not sure who or what deleted the initial thread. I saw it posted earlier this morning, and by this afternoon, there were 50 responses. Quite a busy thread (IMO).

Here's a guy, Mike Janis, who is working 24/7 for the Viking Tour as well as the NUTS.

I cannot imagine how many hours a tournament director of the Viking Tour spends traveling to some of these Viking tournaments, since many of them are spread out in quite a big territory of the country. Advertising, postage, printing, correspondence, and long-distance phone calls are expenses which one would incur with a tour this size.

I am saddened to read some of the most recent posts which seem to target Mike Janis personally relating to the expenses of running the Viking Tour.

If anybody thinks Mike Janis, Mike Zuglan, Tommy Kennedy, Nick Prinsloo and gang are making huge profits from keeping these regional tours alive and well, they are WRONG. The above-named tournament directors have a strong passion for the sport and do it for the love of the game. It is tragic IMO to see any one of their good names mentioned in a negative manner on any pool-related forum.

I have attended many regional tournaments in the past several years, and I am well aware of the money payouts and how the monies are cut up. If there was anything that was not above board or deceptive, I'd pick up on it right away. Relating to the Viking Tour, it's a first-class pool happening each and every time I have ever attended one of their events, and all players are treated equal.

I hope Mike Janis continues to keep the Viking Tour strong, and I believe this regional tour is getting bigger and better each season. Without Mike Janis and people like him, my pool world would not be as bright.

FWIW, I've said it before and I will say it again. THANK YOU, Mike Janis, for making it happen for me and mine. I appreciate your hard work, dedication to the game, and I hope to see you on the tournament trail down the road sometime soon!

JAM

Hey, if the number of hours you work had anything to do with it I'd have been the richest man in the world at one time. No one says Mike should not make money. But, how and where it comes from in correlation to the rooms adding money is important.

Bottom line is the pool playing cellar dwellars aren't carrying their load. The rooms try to but business won't allow it.

And it's nicey nicey posts like this that keep the issues from being solved.

 

[Blackjack]

How does an entire thread get deleted? 6 pages of discussion on why you should or should not consider holding a Viking Cue Tour Tournament & now it is gone!!! What does this say for what was brought up in discussion with Mike Janis? But is this 1984? Big Brother? I didn't realize there was such monitoring being done on this board. I thought it was an intelligent discussion with valid questions to someone that brought up wanting room owners to hold/sponsor his tournaments. At least Mark Griffin of the BCA and Greg of DCC stood up and answered all questions.

Fortunately, I saved my last post so here it is again.....

Mike, I believe Teacherman is speaking of costs that you are not telling us about. I talked to you on the phone several years ago concerning your tournament & I might have my facts a little off but don't you charge $1500 to run the tournament plus you get 20% of the calcutta. Of course it isn't that the room owner puts up $1000 added and you bring the tournament. You have to be making money yourself. Don't be ashamed of making money but please tell us how this is done. If you can ask Teacherman his liquor costs I feel I can publicly ask you this.
I bartend for Teacherman on Saturday nights and his numbers stated for a normal weekend business are completely accurate. But if all you want is $1000 added PERIOD and guarantee $500 over the normal profit of a weekend, I will help you in your crusade to convert Teacherman. And if you can complete a 64 man double elimination tournament in 19 hours (11AM-8:30Pm Saturday & Sunday) I will be simply amazed just on that alone. Teacherman has 18 bar tables and they are not coin slot tables so this tournament would move along even faster than normal. Beer is $2.50, burgers are $3.00...reasonable prices the average person can afford. Parking lot is huge and Teacherman is the only major business in this plaza. No problems there. Located 4 miles in either direction of US Highway 40/64 or US Highway 70, and 1 mile from Highway 64 which is a direct link to the interblet that goes completely around the city of St. Louis. Hotels within 3 miles of the room.
So Mike, as a bartender that would also profit from the influx of these great customers and their generous tips....I am on your side. You guarantee $500 over profit for Teacherman over a normal weekend for simply $1000 added. And if your guarantee doesn't come true? $2000 fine? What are you guaranteeing with?

By the way, those of you that don't think Teacherman 'gives back' as others have stated they do as pool owners. He does...just not to the pool player that cares only to himself. Teacherman has held countless charity tournaments for cancer patients, etc. (the last one he held and gave away Table Time and a cue raffles) the feeling of giving ran over to the tournament players as all the prize money was given back to the beneficiary of the tournament. Weekly, he gives table time away to a local disabled home as they bring in 15-20 individuals to play pool. He has also sponsered softball, baseball, and basketball teams. Surely, he doesn't recoup his money there by having his name listed on a standings sheet at some athletic field. He has a beginner league that if you are a coach of one of the teams then he pays your entry fee into any tournament, anywhere you like. Sorry Teacherman if I blew your image.

Deleted posts have occurred quite frequently as of late. A post regarding the break shot was deleted yesterday while I was responding to it. Makes me wonder what the difference is with this and what Harry (Gremlin) did. To me, no difference. So Mike, not with you on this one. Teacherman is not bringing up any issue that has not been brought up to you before in private conversations with other room owners. Deleting the post (and the thread) was not necessary. There were a lot good points brought up by both of you in the thread, and though Teacherman's posts were a bit abrasive, well so is business. This proves what I said to you on the phone several weeks ago: How do we expect to market the game of pool to others if we can't even market it to ourselves?

 

[Teacherman]

As for the "abrasive" comment, has anything in the pool world ever gotten done talking nicely to each other?

Do people match up nicely?

The answer is no. And this won't either. Too many irons in the fire with too many special interests.

At the present time the triangle isn't working. The tournament director wins. The players do ok. The rooms lose.

Without a 3 way win, things won't last.

Obviously I stand up for my side of the triangle. Mike stands for his side. Until the room can consistently profit from a tournament the td will always be looking for sites.

Another example is this poker craze. The house pays so much per table to hold the poker tournament. The director runs the show. The players play. The players f the whole process (just like the pool players) by not spending any money.

Until the tour guide has a program that consistently allows the room to profit they'll always be small and short lived. When the room consistently makes money the td will have so much business he will never want.